Oh?

@Metool I just wanted to try that out

d d d

3d6

d 9d

d21

Hmmm, interesting

d100

nope, only the common polyhedral dice (d% is 2d10), and only up to 9 of them at once

although you'll note ways to get around that, as above

Thanks! Not that I'm ever likely to need it, but it's a pretty cool feature

9d 9d 9d

Heh.

/// WARNING. I WILL BE SPAMMING THE ROOM FOR A SECOND ///

9d 9d 9d

9d 9d 9d 9d 9d

2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d

9d 9d 9d

9d 9d 9d 9d

9d 9d 9d 9d d

I think it's blocking me now.

Reasonable behavior on its part.

When I was rolling radmans it started putting delays on my ability to use the dice service.

9d 9d 9d 9d d

Rather, Myx's use of deletions.

Indeed.

To be fair, comments aren't for discussion. The site rules are very specific in that area. I'm as guilty as anyone of being drawn into conversations/arguments/discussions in comments (probably guiltier)

@Miniman Some discussions need to be had, especially when they relate to how an answer can be improved, or why it is not appropriate.

Which is generally what Meta is meant to be for.

For extended conversations on an issue.

Isn't meta for one individual question/answer more than a little needlessly petty?

Nope.

was reading up on chat :-)

We have a [vote-to-reopen] meta tag for a reason; singular issues are appropriate for meta.

Hmm. I should talk to Wax again when I see him.

And more importantly for your issues, it creates documentation if singular issues develop into a pattern.

Yeah, I was really looking for a list of the mod infractions. I've seen generalizations and a possible case of moderation abuse, but I've yet to see the history.

@MadMAxJr @waxeagle has a short one on hand in his letter.

It wasn't asked for, but here's my history in return, Gareth. Early 90s, 2E. Up until 3.0, where I became disgusted with my players turning into rule lawyers just looking for ways to break the game. Then I adopted Silhouette (Heavy Gear) until Dream Pod 9 pretty much died internally.

I worked for a while selling 3.0 and 3.5 and have had horrible experience with the varying quality of OGL products being dead weight on our shelves and often very broken ruleswise based on customer feedback. Then I gave up for a few years from 07 to 09, when I saw PF at Gencon. I picked it up because I was interested in the Adventure Paths, long adventure content being released at regular intervals. After getting out of college, I just didn't have the time to write original content anymore.

@Saffron Heh. We try, at least, not to do drama here. Gareth knows my opinions about his temper, and he knows I consider him a friend regardless of that.

(This is one reason SE has no private messaging options; when everything's public, drama is harder to sustain.)

These days I host an online group of players, one on the other side of the globe, and I focus on finding meaningful ways to run games that cater to the tastes of players who all want something different out of their RPG experience. RPG.SE is considered our neutral ground for any rule disputes or questions.

@Lord_Gareth Yeah, I need more information from him on the situation. Thanks for your feedback.

@MadMAxJr As it should be, but in some cases mxyzplk's fanboy-ism is very problematic. He tries to sweep legitimately ambiguous or confusing, poorly-written rules under the rug, browbeat everyone into accepting his interpretation as not only the best choice but clearly how it obviously works and everyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot or no true roleplayer, at least in part because he can broach no criticism of Pathfinder.

← 20 messages moved from RPG General Chat

← 1 message moved from RPG General Chat

as for Pathfinder itself, the editorial quality is weaker than 3.5, which is saying an awful lot since 3.5's was poor, the design quality is quite a lot weaker which is just astounding, and there is at least one instance of a FATAL-esque hideously disgusting and offensive item

@KRyan You're really encouraging me to try it!

@KRyan if there are players enjoying it, it can't be that bad no?

@KRyan I'm not so focused on PF being bad as I am peeling away the charged statements away from the underlying message that we have a moderator in question.

Every company has some poor choices, Paizo is not some golden god in the sky by any means.

@MadMAxJr what can I help you with?

I'm concerned with seeing there is a legitimate reason to be concerned over a moderators activity and it's not a handful of people arguing over whose right about Pathfinder issues.

@MadMAxJr yeah, I have no interest in that debate.

@Saffron RPGs are a social game played, typically, among friends

you can enjoy almost anything if you're hanging out with good friends

so that's not the be-all, end-all criterion of system-design quality

(though obviously that people enjoy playing it is necessary to seriously claim any kind of high quality)

@waxeagle Hi Wax. I just wanted your take on the situation and I've seen the letter. Basically is Myx unfit for the position based on his actions?

@MadMAxJr My letter specifically was to call out personal attacks and specific instances of abuse. What he says and does in his answers on main is no concern of mine. How he interacts both as a user and a moderator is. Especially on meta, but also in comments.

@waxeagle Bingo. This has been somewhat difficult for me to sort out with all the fervor over a game system on top of it.

@MadMAxJr I've been very wary of making any statement in the positive or negative on that effect. And I believe it would be a poor choice for me to do so now. I think in large part he's been burdened with the bulk of moderator responsibility on this site for a while and it's not the best situation for the site. Whether he is or is not a fit moderator is not my decision

Shakes up some singapore slings

(cleaned up the wording there)

@waxeagle Understandable from your position. Do we have any idea when we'll hear anything from our community moderator?

@waxeagle I would argue that he also throws his weight around, through answers, comments, selective enforcement of policy, and chat messages, in order to push a very specific and narrow opinion on what is proper roleplaying, which is also to the detriment of the site.

Er. Not community mod. What's the word. Our community person in SE staff.

@MadMAxJr community manager.

I may have to draft up a letter of my own

more people sending stuff in, but in a not astroturf way, will probably get things moving

That's what I'm interested in seeing. If this /is/ an issue, we need members of the community to ask for an investigation/resolution. Wax has made a start in the right direction, but it might benefit from additional voices.

Those voices however have to focus on the issue of using the moderator position improperly and try to leave the differences of opinion out.

Is there a list of site mods anywhere?

@Miniman rpg.stackexchange.com/users?tab=moderators

@MadMAxJr right, and specific evidence there of. It cannot be nerd rage driven

@waxeagle Thanks, I've wondered about that.

@MadMAxJr I heard back immediately after, have not heard back since, and don't expect to necessarily.

@waxeagle That statement right there is why I had to step back and ask additional questions about motives.

Oh wow, Brian's still on Mod? I figured he would have retired after his professorship duties took over.

@waxeagle Is it possible to issue a call for a new moderator election?

@MadMAxJr we tried that a while ago, nothing doing.

Yep.

That's kind of frustrating. We have no 'scheduled' election in the future, right?

@MadMAxJr correct, shortly after we graduated SE did away with scheduled yearly elections

@waxeagle why? that seems like it would have been a really good feature

Bleh.. Kinda missing our beta days now.

it would make the "entrenchment" issue much easier

@KRyan largely becuase most sites don't regularly need additional moderators

Then I would have to urge that those calling for action against our one active moderator, that they also push for SE election reform, based on our situation.

@waxeagle I just would have liked to see mxyzplk have to run again; it's much easier to "not vote for him" than it is to oust him

@KRyan mod elections are and have always been for life

he would not have to stand again

that's something SE isn't giving in on either

Lovely.

@waxeagle This seems like a glaring oversight in the system. What fool implemented that?

elections are only to add new moderators

@Lord_Gareth one that relies completely on the good will of volunteers?

it's not a paid postition

And yet, it's still a terrible idea just in general. "Lifelong power" doesn't work. It's never worked. We've had more than two thousand years of it never working ever.

Great. Starting to look like the alternative would be to start asking questions back on the forums of specific gaming systems rather than here, if it's that bad.

@MadMAxJr its not at that level

MXY doesnt really mess with questions so much as answers

and even then, it's only certain answers

Which is still not okay, but at least it doesn't take power away from the supplicant.

I have probably upvoted more of his answers than not

So here's the question for which I will be burned at the stake for. Have any of these been addressed with him in chat or via other means?

Myx, I mean.

@MadMAxJr ooooh yeah....

The trouble is when we consider it in the greater context of the community; that is, when we state that the Stack is supposed to help more people than just the supplicant.

@KRyan btw, do you have links to that convo?

Because what happens is we get an inexperienced question asker who accepts a crap answer sponsored or supported by Myx

And then further inexperienced players now have bad information

@waxeagle I think Gareth did?

@Lord_Gareth to be fair, that's actually the system working as intended unfortunately

anyway, gotta go

@waxeagle "Democracy is the worst system, except for all of the other ones we've tried" etc so forth

I'm just a guy who monitors the review feeds to make sure good content goes in, bad content is either fixed or closed. This is starting to get way more involving than I was expecting.

@MadMAxJr This right here is why I don't like the stack handing me power. Though it's been awhile since anyone had a go at me for not 'doing my part'.

Didn't want that part bro, I'm here to answer questions

End of participation.

and no further participation is required, we'd prefer high rep folks pitched in, but no one can make you

Seeing a Starship Troopers ad in there. SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP.

See, I just want my group and I to be relatively sure they can ask questions here without getting entrenched in warring opinions. It's a Q&A site, not a forum. But if there's a proven agenda of a moderator pushing a particular view. That's a problem to my goal.

@MadMAxJr Your own experience with the system makes it...less of a problem for you? Insofar as you have the information needed to recognize and accept a good answer to your own questions.

Myx has yet to delete an actual answer except in clear-cut cases of spam etc.

I want my players to have an option other than me, if they think my personal bias on a given question is too heavily affecting an answer. The DM is the final arbiter at a table, but I am open to the fact I can be wrong.

@MadMAxJr Ah. And you feel they lack sufficient system mastery to be...I don't want to say 'good supplicants' but I'm having trouble finding a better phrase in English. You know what I mean.

Many of my players are new or veterans of other systems.

(Side note: freaking English I swear to Hell)

TLDR; RPG.SE is a great 'phone a friend' solution to a rules question between player and DM.

love me some english

It beats trying to look up the writers for a given rulebook, tracking down their home addresses, and knocking on their door at 2AM, holding the book out, and asking, "What did you mean on this line here?"

@JoshuaAslanSmith And yet, you must be aware that English will never love you back, for its heart is only capable of unending hatred and malice towards the children of dust.

@MadMAxJr Paizo is theoretically supposed to be better at this as a company, with active developer involvement and their FAQ system.

The trouble is that even when the FAQs were being answered (a process that has only recently resumed), Paizo combines two very horrible things

@Lord_Gareth I have been hesitant to voice my opinion that their FAQ system is /terrible/.

1. Incompetence with their own rules.

2. Treating FAQ as errata

#1 there makes #2 really bad

Paizo isn't the only one with a terrible feedback system.

Because a lot of the time their 'fix' or 'clarification' makes things less clear, less functional, or worse

They 'clarified' mounted combat recently in a way that literally makes the entire concept of fighting from horse back stop working in the system, not in the sense of being non-viable but literally in the sense of being mechanically impossible.

Requiring more actions per turn than you have or can ever acquire

Fantasy Flight Games has (had?) a 'submit a rules question' box. I asked several questions there relating to the Warhammer 40k line of RPGs. The answers varied depending on who responded to you and answers you got back didn't become standard answers in the errata.

@MadMAxJr FAQ being errata is a terrible idea anyway. Errata is a design process, which requires consideration and testing. FAQ tends to be fired at the hip.

See: Paizo!problems

I mean, people are still mad about the Flurry of Blows fiasco.

Because it was just so freaking stupid

While I will agree that Paizo doesn't handle things the best, it's not just limited to them.

@Lord_Gareth I can handle english pretty well, studying up to AP german definitely helped my english grammer among other things

@MadMAxJr I was using them as an example of why you don't necessarily want FAQ answers to be errata without further testing.

@Lord_Gareth Oh, yes, much agreement.

Right WOTC's help line/support line was notorious on 4e rules clarification for giving you 2 opposing answers if you called twice with the same quesetion

Anyway, I wanted more information on the accusations of Myx's possible breaches of moderator duties, I've got that. I wanted to see if there were higher support options available to assist. From what Wax says, that's mostly 'No, for the time being.' So we're left with writing well thought letters to SE support that focus on the issue.

Can I stop for a moment and express amazement that this room has survived and retained its name?

I'm gonna go back to the chat room where things might actually be fun again.

@MadMAxJr We can swap to fun topics heeeeere

lol

@Lord_Gareth Its survived because the general Idea was a good one "I made an offhand comment about how I wish we could talk about things like this in a bar together" and the userbase has largely gone with it as a good place to have side conversations that might get touchy