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7:00 PM
What kind of capacity will I need to download the stuff?
 
 
@JasperLoy echo exit | tee ~/.login > ~/.profile
 
Any idea?
 
@KitFox you mean disk or bandwidth?
I guess the answer would be the same, actually... :P
 
Right.
Both.
Gah. I have to go. I'll look at it tonight.
 
7:01 PM
well, I wouldn't bother downloading anything
 
@KitFox aha! Migration! called it.
 
And it's stupid!
So stupid!
 
so just get a crawler to create a map of links between pages, the content type of the page and the size of the page
 
They have no governance plan, no process for web content creation or anything!
 
@KitFox Well, we can chat more about it later if necessary.
 
7:02 PM
So why are we even looking at what's there?
It's not relevant until we know what's relevant!
 
@KitFox well, that was kind of what I was wondering
 
@KitFox Why don't you tell your boss that now?
 
why do you need an inventory of an unregulated system?
 
And ... bashes head on desk
 
For migration, just seal off access to all the existing systems, and launch a new system. Old stuff will eventually fade away and new stuff in the new system.
 
7:03 PM
Because they want me to draw lines around existing content to determine what is in scope.
 
I mean, creating an inventory isn't so difficult... but making something useful sort of requires knowing how it is going to be used.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 IF you have a plan for how content is generated, etc.
@MrHen INORITE!
 
Just make a plan for new content.
 
OK, I'm getting too worked up over this,
 
The fact that the old systems are sealed off means that everyone has to adhere to the new plan.
 
7:04 PM
Well, the old systems won't be sealed off.
And people will still be allowed to do whatever thay want if they can't make it work the way they want to.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 See aforementioned XKCD.
 
OK, really I have to go.
See you and thanks.
 
@MrHen right. Except I propose outlawing the old standards and FORCING the new standard upon everyone by fiat.
 
Bye, go home and sleep.
 
@KitFox Cheers. Ping when you have questions or need to vent. :)
 
7:06 PM
For English, I have a set of "callable regex subs" for defining a vowel, a consonant, a diphthong, a digraph, etc etc. The problem is these aren’t as easily stored in a library as one would wish, as there is no good namespace control and you have to include the defs with each pattern you compile that needs those.
        (?(DEFINE)
            (?<vowel>
                (?&diphthong)
              | \p{IsVowel}
              |
                (?<=  \p{IsConsonant} )
                (?<!  V               )
                [yY]
            )
            (?<consonant>
                (?&digraph)
              | (?= \pL ) ( [^aeiou] ) \g{-1}
              | \p{IsConsonant}
              | (?<= [V\p{IsVowel}] ) [yY] (?= [V\p{IsVowel}] )
              | [yY] (?= [V\p{IsVowel}] )
            )
Stuff like that.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, that usually doesn't get full adoption unless you are the only one calling the shots.
 
@MrHen There are ways to bring people on board.
 
@tchrist How do you handle loan words?
 
@MrHen Well, that’s where the digraphs and diphthongs bits don’t work so well.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 There are, yes. But that is a separate problem/issue... :P
 
7:07 PM
            (?<digraph>
                rrh
              | sch
              | sci (?= ous )
              | [cgkprstw] h
              | ng (?= \p{IsConsonant} | $ )
              | ^ [gk] n
              | mb (?!= \p{IsVowel} )
              | ^ ps
            )
            (?<diphthong>
                  eau | oue
                | aa | ae | ai | au | a[yV]
                | ea | ee | ei | e[yV]
                | eo | eu
                | ie
                | oa | oe | oi | o[yV]
                | oo | ou | ow
                | ue
                | ui | u[yV]
            )
Oh.
@MrHen Oh wait, I see the problem.
 
@tchrist ;)
 
How good a solution do you want? :)
 
@tchrist I just use English :D
I saw someone compile a set of rules for pronunciation that seemed similar
 
Yes, but you should be able to match naïve façades of jalapeños if you want.
 
They were able to condense it down to less than 100, if I remember correctly
 
7:10 PM
The trick there is to (1) decompose to NFD first (2) use graphemes, so either an \X construct or a trailing \pM* after each "letter".
 
@tchrist My internal English parser cheats and removes diacritics
 
Tsk.
The worst problem is something else.
 
The only useful diacritics I've seen are those in words like "cooperating."
@tchrist Oh?
 
Yes. Not everything that is a letter decomposes into a Latin base character.
 
@tchrist What do you mean?
oh, are we still talking about loan words?
 
7:14 PM
@MrHen You mean like shark? :-)
 
> Allerød, œil-de-bœuf, tschüß, Ævar Arnfjörð Ævar Arnfjörð
There is no decomposition for ø œ ß Æ ð
 
@tchrist I see.
 
You have to code to full the full multi-level UCA (Unicode Collation Algorithm) before those fall into place where they belong.
And things like α-ketoisovaleric acid or β-carotene or ψ-ionone are a completely different set of problems.
 
@tchrist Not to mention tone.
Which... you could argue isn't technically present in writing.
Even though it is.
Kind of.
 
It is in biomedical journal papers.
 
7:19 PM
@tchrist Tone?
 
What I hate is when you reverse “crème brûlée” and get not “eélûrb emèrc” as you should but “éel̂urb em̀erc” instead.
@MrHen No, Greeks.
 
@tchrist I see.
CS writing would include virtually every symbol... so where is the line between English and "code in English"?
 
I actually sort on the romanizations in that case.
 
@tchrist Hm, interesting.
 
All I know is that code-point sorting sucks at English.
    Little Red Mushrooms
    Little Red Riding Hood
    Little Red Tent
    Little Red, More Blue
    Little, Red Rider
That’s a royal pain.
    Little Red, More Blue
    Little Red Mushrooms
    Little, Red Rider
    Little Red Riding Hood
    Little Red Tent
 
7:22 PM
@tchrist I'm not familiar with that term.
 
Is what it should be.
@MrHen I mean sorting strings by their characters’ numeric values.
 
@tchrist Ah
Yes, the classic being "a" then "b" then "A"
 
Yes.
The UCA by default produced alphabetized text, not numerically sorted test. So in my two “Little” examples, you get the second version by default.
If you are on Linux, and have the right LC_* settings, that will also be the default.
 
UCA?
 
Unless you do LC_ALL=C
UCA = Unicode Collation Algorithm
 
7:25 PM
Ah
The other classic sorting issue is "apple1" then "apple11" then "apple2"
 
Yes, and the UCA explicitly states that it does not address that one.
Nonetheless, since you are doing a multilevel sort, this is easy to fix.
 
I think most of us just got used to prepending 0s.
 
@MrHen Yes, although that only works for ints.
my $MAXLEN = length("18446744073709551616");  # 2**64
my @data = ();
while (my $datum = <>) {
    my $_ = $datum;
    s/(\d+)/sprintf "%0${MAXLEN}d", $1/ge;
    push @data, {
        STRING      => $datum,
        SORTKEY     => $_,
    };
}
for (sort { $a->{SORTKEY} cmp $b->{SORTKEY} } @data) {
    print $_->{STRING};
}
That prepends 0s like you said.
But it doesn’t work worth crud on FP.
 
@tchrist Prepending 0s would work with FP...
It's just ugly as hell.
 
No.
 
7:29 PM
Why not?
"apple001.2" then "apple010.400004" and so on?
 
5.19
 
@tchrist versus what?
 
All I know is my floating point solution that works for signed FP is disgusting.
 
@tchrist oof, signed is another can of worms
and then there are build "numbers"; e.g. 1.0.5.3402
 
sub fixstring(_) {
    my $_ = shift();

    # these must be done in order, or else you'll
    #   -- miss zero-padding numbers
    #   -- accidentally convert Greek iota or xi to Roman numerals!

  # STEP 1: Romans to Arabic
  #    convert valid Roman numeral to regular digits
  #    only do small numbers (no L,D,C,M)
  #    must be between boundaries for single-letters
  #    must have either boundaries for multi-letters

    # First do the real Unicode Roman numerals,
    # which are of course guaranteed to be Roman
@MrHen So long as they’re all whole numbers, that’s not too bad just make a vector, etc.
But there are non-comparable things people do with builds.
 
7:33 PM
@tchrist Exactly.
1.0.5.3402beta > 1.0.5.3402alpha
(and is just horrible anyway, so screw them)
 
@MrHen Quite annoying.
 
we see "rc" "rel" and "prerel" a lot
but in a sense, this is sorting "intent" and not "words"
 
There are 4 steps in the above transform to create a sort key. #2 is for signed floats.
  #   handle correctly formatted comma'd numbers

    s{ (
            # allow a plus or minus
            # let them use any kind of dash but em and en
            (?:
                (?! [\N{EM DASH}\N{EN DASH}]  )
                [\N{PLUS SIGN}\N{PLUS-MINUS SIGN}\N{MINUS-OR-PLUS SIGN}\p{Dash}]
            )
           (?: \b \d{1,3} (?: , \d{3} )+ \b
             | \d+
           )
       )
       (?: \. (\d+) )?
    }{
        my ($left, $right) = ($1, $2);
        $left =~ s/[\N{COMMA}\N{PLUS SIGN}\N{PLUS-MINUS SIGN}\N{MINUS-OR-PLUS SIGN}]//g;
 
heh, commas are another animal due to i18n
 
Oh right, and it works with commas in the numbers too.
Note that I’m calling a s/// op from within the RHS of an s/// op.
 
7:36 PM
The major issue with sort time 0 padding is that you need all of the potential matches before the padding can happen
 
Meaning?
 
@tchrist I don't have the time/interest/energy to grok all of it now :)
 
@MrHen That’s ok.
You mean you have to do an O(N) pass to pad first before your O(N log N) pass to sort?
 
@tchrist if I have one million entries to sort and the sorting happens with 0 padding, you need to do preprocessing to figure out how many 0s to pad
 
Like I did in my naïve version?
Yes.
 
7:37 PM
@tchrist Yes.
 
But that is still O(N + N log N), not N**2 log N.
 
@tchrist And it prevents continuous sorting.
Which isn't really a common need... so that's okay.
 
@MrHen Um.
That’s kinda tough to do.
 
@tchrist Say you have a pipe and your service stores the info into a sorted system.
 
K
 
7:39 PM
That is distributed across various databases.
 
Best have an insertable data structure to put stuff in.
No simple something_old | sort | something_new pipeline.
 
Ideally, such a system would be designed properly so the sort key isn't a string :P
 
Well.
 
@tchrist The problem is with padding.
 
Sorting on full strings adds another O(N)
Oh.
Blech.
 
7:40 PM
If a new, very long number comes in you have to resort.
 
That’s why I pad to MAXINT
 
Actually, this would make an interesting technical interview question...
Hmm...
 
Anyway, I have to go do real work now. Thanks for chatting.
 
@tchrist Yep; cheers. :)
 
@tchrist I have to say I cannot trust my instincts there, so I would just throw it into Regex Coach and test it.
The logic is so counter-intuitive that I can never remember how it works exactly.
 
7:54 PM
Took a while, but I got 'er done.
 
@Robusto Congrats.
 
Thanks. I thought I was screwed when I had to move my 1024 off the corner, but it worked out.
 
@Robusto I've found that this game is less "random" and easier to control than Threes
 
Yes, exactly.
 
But I didn't spend a lot of time on it.
 
7:56 PM
Neither did I. Maybe a couple hours total.
But the full-row collapsibility plus the greater predictably make it an easier game all around.
By full-row collapsibility I mean every pair in a row will merge, not just the end one.
 
@Robusto Yes. The (1 + 2) starting point also made Threes much harder.
Here, the 2s really don't matter so much.
 
Well done!
 
8:18 PM
Hey folks!
 
8:28 PM
@GraceNote Yo
 
Hey @MrHen
 
@GraceNote What's happening?
 
I had a question that we ran into but I was curious if someone might have a looksee on it first to affirm its appropriateness.
 
@GraceNote Mmk
 
8:32 PM
@GraceNote This is a solid question but I'm looking really question to see if we've already answered it
1
Q: Is "curious of" acceptable or even better than "curious about"?

DuckMaestroMany speakers and internet writers seem to use "curious of" in place of "curious about". For example: I am curious of what he thinks. This is in spite of what seems to be, by the rules of grammar I can find, less correct than saying: I am curious about what he thinks. I have heard bot...

THis is close but not quite
 
@MrHen Yeah, that was my first check but I didn't find anything that quite matched it.
 
@GraceNote I don't see a full dupe
I would edit the question to not explicitly refer to the ELU usage case and just ask the generic question.
But that is probably just my opinion seeping out
 
I gave it as more of a background example but I can try to weasel it out to something less site-specific.
 
@GraceNote Mmk. It isn't a problem but I fear it will be distracting :)
If you need a quick answer, "curious if" is rather common usage but it falls in the grey area of "not perfectly proper but used so often it may as well be proper"
But it is a great question, in my opinion.
One that will probably get a few arguments started :D (Those are the best questions.)
 
I can just block off the top part and leave it as "Consider the following line" and drop the line down to the curious portion. Any tags besides [grammar]?
 
8:36 PM
@GraceNote That would be fine
 
tags would be prepositions, conjunctions
 
...I probably would've been better off not launching with something as improper as "Which it and similar", heh.
 
@GraceNote I saw that :)
 
There! Better start!
 
8:39 PM
@GraceNote +1'd. I'll let someone else field it but if you don't get any bites I can answer it
 
Sounds like a plan, but given the subject matter I do expect quite the haul.
 
@GraceNote Prepositions and conjunctions typically stir up quite a bit of opinion. :)
 
To wit you're actually one of the results for "curious if".
 
@GraceNote Yep. It is very common in my region.
I fluctuate between "curious if", "curious about" and "curious whether"
I still haven't decided which I prefer.
But I've noticed that I tend to be very lax on my usage of "if"
 
Ahha
 
8:45 PM
So I don't really adhere to the rule that was suggested to you
Another example: "I'm not sure if this is correct."
"Do you know if this is correct?"
 
Interesting parallel
 
9:11 PM
You could view "curious if" as perfectly valid to modify a clause: "I am curious if the lion is really the king of beasts." There it would mean "I am curious [about whether] the lion is really the king of beasts."
And you could certainly say "I am curious whether ..." since you're eliding the "about" in that construction: "I am curious [about] whether ..."
I would use "curious about" to directly modify a noun or noun phrase: "I am curious about monkeys."
But in no case would an intelligent reader be stymied by "curious if" — thinking that it is a conditional. For example, the statement "I am curious if the lion is really the king of beasts" would not be interpreted to mean that your curiosity is only operable if the lion is really the king of beasts.
I suspect that the if version exists at all merely because it is a synonym for whether, and gets substituted naturally. Notice that you cannot say "I am curious about if ..." but you can say "I am curious about whether ..."
 
@Robusto (Btw, the dictionary agrees with this.)
> whether: He asked if I knew Spanish.
Ooh, one hapless answerer has fallen into the trap!
 
posted on March 19, 2014 by sgdi

Something and something and stuff This limerick seems really rough Made up on the spot I do that a lot All of this comes off the cuff

 
 
1 hour later…
10:43 PM
OK- I just had some friend of mine do some research -and the Wren And Martin Book of English Grammar says this: when it's somebody you run into -you say run into to you. when it's something (an object) you run into - you say run into you. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question, but I intend to do some more analysis and will let you know. In the meanwhile, I'd appreciate if you can also do some research and let me know? All answers are welcome. Best, Vaishali — Vaishali 1 hour ago
Geezis, is there really such a thing as run into to you?
 
yes
it's pretty common
 
Not joking?
 
as in "I ran into Doug on the underground the other day. He's doing well." that's a figurative use
or "I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to run into you."
 
@MattЭллен Read what I posted carefully.
 
1 min ago, by Jasper Loy
Geezis, is there really such a thing as run into to you?
yes there really is such a thing
 
10:45 PM
Yes, read carefully, Matt!
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
 
explain more clearly, Jasper
 
Run into to you != Run into you, QED.
 
oh
yeah, I didn't see that extra to
I guess that means it's bed time
 
So what do you say now?
Yes, it is bed time.
 
good night
 
10:47 PM
Good night.
This is one answer I am not deleting, because I am pretty sure English does not have a run into to you.
 
11:05 PM
Interesting imo (I'm not interested in cars)
 
@JasperLoy Not that I've ever heard.
 
11:34 PM
!!hang
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |
  |
  |
__+__

-------
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O
  |
  |
__+__
e
-------
 
Didn't I thaw a room for this purpose?
 
Try o
@KitFox Is KitSox misbehaving again? She got out of her pen?
 
11:38 PM
@KitFox did you?
!!hang i
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O
  |
  |
__+__
e, i
-----i-
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O
  |   |
  |
__+__
e, i, s
-----i-
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O/
  |   |
  |
__+__
e, i, o, s
-----i-
 
11:38 PM
!!hang a
 
!!hang n
 
Fanatic
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |  \O/
  |   |
  |
__+__
a, e, i, n, o, s
-a--ai-
 
Oops.
 
Hem.
 
11:39 PM
Hem isn't long enough.
 
bargain
 
No bandaid...
 
No bargain.
 
No n
 
11:39 PM
It didn't like my n.
 
Ah.
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |  \O/
  |   |
  |  /
__+__
a, c, e, i, n, o, s
-a--ai-
 
!!hang d
 
Parfait
 
11:40 PM
hou about L
 
Die!!
 
@Cerberus Nope! The word is wagtail. I still like you though and you made a good effort!
 
Awww.
 
!!define wagtail
 
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 wagtail Any of various small passerine birds of the family Motacillidae, of the Old World, notable for their long tails.
 
11:40 PM
I should have known.
 
Wow. Wagtail.
That one was for Cerberus.
 
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Just go already!
 
It was indeed.
 
Bai!
 
But I sucked.
 
!!hang
 
And I only drank 3 beers.
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |
  |
  |
__+__

-------------------
 
Yay long is easy.
 
11:41 PM
Oh, beer. Good idea.
 
!!hang e
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |
  |
  |
__+__
e
-----e----e----e--e
 
!!hang a
 
!!hang t
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O
  |
  |
__+__
a, e, t
----te---te----e--e
 
11:41 PM
Ugh.
 
!!hang n
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O
  |
  |
__+__
a, e, n, t
---nte--nte----en-e
 
!!hang c
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O
  |
  |
__+__
a, c, e, n, t
c--nte--nte----ence
 
I suck at puzzle.
 
11:41 PM
!!hang r
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O
  |
  |
__+__
a, c, e, n, r, t
c--nter-nte----ence
 
!!hang s
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O
  |   |
  |
__+__
a, c, e, n, r, s, t
c--nter-nte----ence
 
!!hang o
 
  +---+
  |   |
  |   O
  |   |
  |
__+__
a, c, e, n, o, r, s, t
co-nter-nte----ence
 
11:42 PM
!!hang u
 
!!hang counterintelligence
 
@Robusto Correct! The word is counterintelligence.
 
Ahh.
 
If you're smart about counters, you are counterintelligent.
 
I shouldn't even be looking at puzzles. My brains are not wired that way.
 
11:43 PM
Your brains are wired? What are you, a cyborg?
 
Hey, nerves are a kind of wires?
 
No. They're not.
 
!!define wire
!!define nerve
 
@MrHen wire (uncountable) Metal formed into a thin, even thread, now usually by being drawn through a hole in a steel die.
@MrHen nerve (zoology) A bundle of neurons with their connective tissue sheaths, blood vessels and lymphatics.
 
Robusto wins!
 
11:47 PM
Again!
 
!!define wire
!!define nerve
 
@MrHen nerve (zoology) A bundle of neurons with their connective tissue sheaths, blood vessels and lymphatics.
@MrHen wire (uncountable) Metal formed into a thin, even thread, now usually by being drawn through a hole in a steel die.
 
Again!
I love winning.
 
Yep, still winning.
 
We should check tomorrow, though, just to be sure.
 
11:48 PM
I'll put it in the calendar.
 
makes note
 
Hey, wire can be used in derived senses.
 
The Wire is an American crime drama television series set and produced in and around Baltimore, Maryland. Created and primarily written by author and former police reporter David Simon, the series was broadcast by the premium cable network HBO in the United States. The Wire premiered on June 2, 2002, and ended on March 9, 2008, comprising 60 episodes over five seasons. Each season of The Wire introduces a different facet of the city of Baltimore. In chronological order they are: the illegal drug trade, the seaport system, the city government and bureaucracy, the school system, and the p...
Like this one.
 
The Nerves were a mid-1970s American power pop trio, based in Los Angeles, featuring guitarist Jack Lee, bassist Peter Case, and drummer Paul Collins. All three members composed songs and sang. They managed an international tour in the U.S. and Canada, including dates with The Ramones, and performances for the troops as part of the United Services Organization (USO). Career The Nerves lasted a short time and self-released one self-titled four-song EP in 1976, featuring the songs "Hanging on the Telephone" (Lee), "When You Find Out" (Case), "Give Me Some Time" (Lee), and "Working Too ...
Nope, Robusto is still winning.
 
beams
 
11:51 PM
marvels at how many would-be foods are merely catsup vectors
 
Such as?
 
@tchrist I think I only really put ketchup on hotdogs and hamburgers.
 
Novels Jane Austen never got around to writing: Prob and Probability, Like and Likeability, Aud and Audibility, etc.
@tchrist I didn't know there was a catsup data type.
But it makes sense.
 
French fries, fried potatoes, hash browns, potatoes au gratin, fried eggs, scrambled eggs, "chicken" nuggets, beer.
 
I use Frank's on all those.
 
11:54 PM
@tchrist So... potatoes, eggs and bear.
I'm not sure how to classify "chicken" nuggets.
 
@Robusto Yeah, thanks. I wouldn't have figured that out.
 
i no rite
 
OK, I forgot whom I was dealing with here.
 
11:55 PM
That would be the family size.
 
@tchrist Hmm, you've revealed a case where catsup is hotter than hot sauce. How is that possible?
 
@Robusto Hot sauce usually comes in a smaller bottle, so I think that would be hotter.
 
Naked hot chicks make everything hotter. It's a law of nature or something.
 
!!define chick
 
@MrHen chick (zoology) A young bird.
 
11:57 PM
Wrong, KitSox.
 
@Robusto Like kittens?
 
Kind of. Only in the case of kittens it's more a guideline than an actual law.
 
@tchrist That would probably be more nutritious than regular catsup.
It's also nice that they didn't bother to preserve it.
 
@tchrist My cat thinks that is a jarring image.
 
@Robusto Oof.
Where's Martha when we need her?
 
11:59 PM
She got tired of thwacking me.
 

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