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12:00 AM
l8rs @Linker3000
 
Gnite!
 
12:29 AM
@SimonSheehan: dog. ;p the little golden haired scoundrel is mine. ;p
 
@JourneymanGeek ah okay, saw some other dogs in there and thought they were yours too ;p
 
@SimonSheehan: oh, its at the dog park. we bring him every week ;p
 
Haha, funny.
 
1:17 AM
holy crap
on one hand, FAST. on the other, living dangerously much? ;p
 
1:55 AM
@JourneymanGeek VERY fast o.o but i feel like the failure rate just increased.
 
lol
if either drive goes, everything goes ;p
 
2:13 AM
Not the greatest idea. Fast but...
Keep it to the OS only ;)
 
eh
and backup regularly ;)
 
@JourneymanGeek more like tape backup all day ;)
 
lol
well, i tend to favour weekly or monthly right now ;p
unless i could get my zfs storage pod snuck in ;p
 
I only backup the essentials - large game files, documents that are needed. Except my external HDD is dying a bit.
Might be time for something nice and new. Before it does finally choke and die
 
The unfortunate thing about backups is that most people don't do them (even when they've been told that they should, and they understand the risks [of full data loss] of not having any backups at all).
 
2:23 AM
Im horrible for updating and backing up :/
 
i backup everything ;p
my external drive died tho
and i tend to have stuff like movies and audio on external or backup drives anyway, so its only the system
 
I like to make snapshot image backups of my hard drives. I use this tool, which is great for this: drivesnapshot.de
 
I have a seagate external drive - i cringe every time i plug it in, living in fear of it dying and losing a LOT of video and files.
 
@SimonSheehan: everyone is, until crap happens
@SimonSheehan: i have two copies of my music, for starters ;p
 
Simon: Does that hard drive contain your only copies of certain data?
 
2:25 AM
@JourneymanGeek Yes but i NEED to keep these things - redownloading is NOT an option. I have 3 copies of my music - desktop, laptop, external. I have a 60GB download cap each month so i CANNOT lose things
 
@SimonSheehan: but imaging those things with the system drive is wasteful
so, i image the system drive, and keep a simple backup up those files in multiple locations
 
@JourneymanGeek Well i access them on both PC's, so i need multiple copies. The backup is from me transferring betwen PCs.
ah.
I see what you mean
 
for example, the 'master' copy of my music is on the drive i use to backup my laptop
the backup is on the drive i use to backup the desktop
 
I see. Serious backup
 
eh, redownloading is a pain. Reripping is a pain and half
 
2:27 AM
(I find this chat confusing because names seem to keep changing; sometimes it reads "Simon" and other times it's Simon Sheehan;" also, there's "Journeyma" vs. "Journeyman Geek.")
 
well, there's also the non flac copy of my music ;p
@RandolfRichardson: i use the autocomplete ;p
also, the proper way to refer to me is 'geek'. journeyman is a description, not a name XD
 
@JourneymanGeek I've gone over my limit every month for 2 years - upgrading to a 125GB limit soon shall be nice :D
 
we don't have limits here
thank god for civilised internet ;p
how much is your limit?
 
Lucky you. Theres nothing unmetered in my area, sadly, so were all forced into this :P
60GB per month
 
there's nothing metered in my area ;p
 
2:29 AM
the company that offers unlimited is in the next town...but not mine D:
 
or country (other than PAYG)
 
@SimonSheehan I hosted a web site temporarily at my home once, and it got slash-dotted during that time. I bought a second cable modem account to keep my ISP happy. Everything's at co-location centres normally.
 
but i think 'redownloading' lost data is.. inefficient ;p
XDXD
 
Heh. In canada the current government wants to start usage-based-billing, which means we pay for what we download. Theres a HUGE protest on it
 
i've once downloaded 4gb of data off someone in aust tho
@SimonSheehan: its cause your ISPs don't want to invest in infrasctructure. they'd rather just charge more
 
2:30 AM
@JourneymanGeek Welcome to Canada.
 
here we have what.. three independant sets of infrasctructure owned by 3 different companies ;p
 
@SimonSheehan Yeah, I know. To me it's not a big deal at all because in dealing with co-location centres this has already been happening for ages. For home use, on the other hand, I'm only okay with it if they're charging for usage that goes above the existing limits (and the customer has explicitly concented to this prior to any such billing occurring).
I live in Canada.
I am Canadian.
 
singtel has an ADSL network, Starhub has cable, and the fiber optics... is owned by someone else
 
@RandolfRichardson Where do you live?
 
Beautiful British Columbia.
Where are you?
 
2:31 AM
@RandolfRichardson Ah, im in Ontario. The federal conservatives are supporting Usage based billing though :/
 
The general feeling here in the West is that the federal politicians rarely have any clue about what people need and want.
I suppose that's not much different from most countries.
 
@RandolfRichardson: eh, the colo we were looking at didn't
 
Its unfortunate. I feel like the government in Canada is really falling apart though. The provincial conservatives of ontario are led by tim hudak, and his plan is to scrap all green energy projects and bring back "dollar beer days"
 
pity that project didn't work out ;p
 
@SimonSheehan Woah! He wants to scrap environmentally-friendly programs? That's definitely a "do or die move" for his career.
 
2:34 AM
@RandolfRichardson The biggest concern for me is that hes currently winning in public opinion polls. Thats scary.
@RandolfRichardson have you heard about the scam with Bev Oda?
 
@SimonSheehan The public opinion polls are sometimes way WAY off though. To me, it's the actual plebiscite to complete the election that matters.
 
(I can't even vote and ive got such a big opinion)
 
@SimonSheehan No. What happened this time?
(Dinner's ready. I have to go very VERY soon.)
 
@RandolfRichardson she was found to have lied in parliament and sent us into an election. And then she got reelected and the conservatives got a majority. shes the rep for my riding.
ill be back momentarily also
 
@SimonSheehan: we haven't had an election in my area in 20 years ;p
 
2:38 AM
@SimonSheehan She lied? Ha. Don't they all? I can only remember Joe Clark not lying (and the liars all ran him out of office because they didn't want him to clean house).
@JourneymanGeek Well, don't get apathetic. Keep on voting for the ones who have never been elected because there's still hope for them not lying. =)
 
i'd vote if i coulf!
 
@JourneymanGeek Restricted by age?
 
i hope to get to vote for the president of singapore, assuming they don't disqualify everyone but the government supported candidate
 
@JourneymanGeek I wish our government would bring in caning, and start with using it on the Stanley Cup rioters.
 
@RandolfRichardson: walkover for the last 20 years. this year, opposition candidates were disallowed for being 30 seconds late for nomination - which happens over 2 hours
 
2:40 AM
@JourneymanGeek Well, if those are the official rules, then those politicians need to make sure they're early. Otherwise if there really is an abuse of power going on, then that's a shame.
(I have to go for dinner. I'll try to come back later. Bye folks, it was nice chatting with you!)
 
Cya later @Randolf!
@Journeyman ouch. Doesn't sound very good to me
They are considering changing the voting age to 16 here though
 
2:59 AM
Night time and it's still feeling like 41 degrees. Thank goodness for AC
Linux kernel 3.0 was pushed 5 minutes ago
 
ooh
i should put off recompiling my gentoo kernel till its supported there then ;p
 
@Journeyman hehe. Linus posted before his sites even updates ><
 
;p
google plus? ;p
 
Yep. Such a handy site!
 
4:00 AM
Finally going to sleep early - night everyone
 
 
1 hour later…
5:10 AM
Posted by KronoS on July 22nd, 2011

With more and more media turning digital, Home Theater PC’s (HTPC’s) are making a larger presence within the homes of PC enthusiasts.  Whether your starting from scratch, or upgrading an older pc, this multi-part guide is meant to help you in building your new HTPC.

HTPC’s can take care of ALL you media needs which can even ultimately either replace or add to your current media experiences:

Dvd/Blu-Ray Player

Central Audio Stations Whether a PC, iPod, audio receiver, etc, you can replace all of these with a central HTPC (including streaming to those other devices)  …

 
 
2 hours later…
7:19 AM
hi @ThomasMcDonald
 
user30
mornin'
 
how's Lion
 
 
1 hour later…
user30
8:52 AM
@Sathya It's pretty good, a bit disappointed with Chrome not fully working without me changing stuff, full screen terminal is surprisingly useful
 
10:33 AM
Morning everyone
 
 
1 hour later…
11:56 AM
@SimonSheehan morning
it's the evening over here
 
12:37 PM
lo
 
 
1 hour later…
1:47 PM
afternoon all
 
1:59 PM
Afternoon
 
2:13 PM
I'M CALM..I'M CALM..I'M CALM..I'M CALM.. Honest...!
 
@Linker3000 ?
 
Just picking up the pieces of a major service outage on our core VMware server!!!
 
ah :/
 
The disk controller's flash backed cache failed and took our storage array offline!
 
oh lovely
 
2:14 PM
I replaced the cache module (everyone keeps a spare, don't they!!), but it's a bit unnerving when the array controller then says "erm, what array?"
 
only a bit unnerving?
 
Kinda working now - all VMs running but the big one managing all our data has spent the last 2 hours in chkdsk and it's still going....
@DMA57361 yeah, man of steel!!!
Well, we DO have backups...
 
@Linker3000 I'd hope so, still it's never fun having to use them
 
@DMA57361 Agreed.
 
2:28 PM
@Linker3000: if you didn't i'd suggest checking into the nice hotel with padded rooms.
 
3:09 PM
@JourneymanGeek I'd be down the pub, on the phone looking for a new job
 
3:33 PM
@Linker3000 you're a pure Windows guy?
from your profile I see not
 
3:45 PM
Hello guys .. Can i prevent my xp password from being removed/changed by another Administrator account ?
 
no
 
so what is the account types can change passwords ?
 
all accounts with Admin privs
 
so less than Admin privs like Backup Operators means they can't change password ?
 
4:00 PM
If they can back up the entire system (or otherwise get access to the system password files), it would be trivial for them to find your password hash and crack it.
In fact, anyone that can boot the system off of a CD drive can reset your password, or crack it.
usually in less than 5 minutes for either scenario, including the time it takes to boot the CD.
 
@DarthAndroid they are not gonna do that :) and I do know how easy it is to do it via OphCrack
 
Sounds very secure
 
Welcome to unsalted passwords.
 
Indeed. Where is my hashing!
 
(which if you know the salts for a linux system, you can build up a rainbow table and just as easily crack linux passwords )
so, yes, computers without BIOS passwords or with user-inserted boot media available are very secure :)
</sarcasm>
 
4:05 PM
@DarthAndroid i will remove the HDD !!!
the BEST way is to TrueCrypt it
 
@HackToHell The simple matter is if you don't trust someone not to reset your password, then they should not be anything above a standard user, and should not be able to physically access the system.
 
@SimonSheehan the problem here is the pw's are hashed unsalted, so you do get hashing just the type that there's handy tables for
 
@DarthAndroid that's kinda impossible (physical access)
 
Otherwise it's a moot point.
Then it doesn't matter what you set in the system.
Anyone that has physical access to the system and wants to be an administrator can (quite easily) make themselves an administrator.
You have a people issue, not a computer issue, and computers can't really solve people issues.
 
@DMA I'm not much of a programmer or administrator, so it makes little sense to me ;)
 
4:10 PM
@SimonSheehan Since all the hashes are the same for all windows computers (I.e., the hash for "password" on my computer is the same as the hash for "password" on your computer), I can simply build up a massive table of every possible hash and then look up your hash to find a password that will work for your user.
"Salting" is a method that makes the hash for "password" on my system different from the hash for "password" on your system
And properly blocks that type of attack (a Rainbow Table attack. )
Linux uses salted passwords, but windows does not.
 
4:25 PM
Antone here good at video effects ? How can I do this to my video ? youtube.com/watch?v=C9JIEVzsK-s
 
@Darth Typical windows :p
 
stupid question: If I need my Linux box to receive files via ftp, I don't need to run a ftp daemon on it, do I?
 
@Sathya no .. ff will do it
or wget
 
@Sathya receive implies you want to send files to it from elsewhere?
 
@DMA57361 yes.
 
4:36 PM
if so I think you probably will need the server up and running because it handles comms in both directions
 
@HackToHell I don't think you understood my point, or I wasn't clear enough
 
@Sathya i did not understand you .. and do not yet
 
@DMA57361 Hmmm
worth asking a question, eh?
 
sure, why not
but if the server isn't up and listening for FTP connections, how are you going to connect to then send a file?
not counting doing anything interesting with SSH or whatever
 
that's what has me wondering.
@DMA57361 ftr, I do have a ssh connection
 
4:39 PM
well then you could use that, but then you're not really sending files by FTP
well, it's called SFTP isn't it, so maybe that counts?
:)
 
perspective/background: I'm in the middle of a transition from a fully managed shared webhost to unmanaged VPS
so everything is being configured by me
 
ah, fun times
 
my Linux desktop skills are on par with Windows desktop skills, but my server skills are an absolute zero
so I've got nginx, mysql, php, wordpress installed
next step would be configuring wordpress
first step is plugin install
wordpress has a really neat search-click-install feature, where it'll do the installation
previously, my webhost had provided me all the details that I need - ftp username, password & port.
 
ah right
 
now when it comes to the VPS - I'm confused - I presumed that ftp daemon is responsible for ftp comms, directory management & transferring files - I have no clue whether it accepts file-receive requests
I'm not really sure what to Google either :|
 
4:45 PM
shrug
my experience is pretty limited; mostly using WinSCP to send/pull files via SSH to the Linux cluster at Uni and local VMs
 
ok, thanks @DMA
@DMA
0
Q: Do I need a ftp server daemon to be running on my Linux system to receive files via FTP?

SathyaDo I need to have a ftp server / daemon on my Linux box so that I can receive files? A use case of a system "receiving" files over FTP would be, for example, the way WordPress plugins are installed via 1-click where it transfers the files from the WordPress plugin repository to my local Linux bo...

(cc: @Linker3000 @JourneymanGeek too :p )
 
@Sathya O_o oh dear
 
5:00 PM
man, JohnT answered it in a minute T_T
 
That's the first time I've ever seen JohnT :o
 
@Sathya well, he has that much rep for a reason...
 
heh, true
@SimonSheehan :O
 
although he's not been around this week it seems, looking at his activity
 
(btw, he's a fellow Canadian, say Hi! :P ) @SimonSheehan
yeah, he's been off the site for a bit
 
5:02 PM
Haha. Neat. I seem to only really know the people in chat, others just sort of slip by me
 
@SimonSheehan I know the feeling, chat really helps make people memorable
@Sathya uuhhhh, and just deleted his answer, and undeleted it again O_o
 
say wha.
 
@DMA indeed it does. Let's you really get involved more outside of just answering questions
 
help me, I'm confused :\
0
A: Do I need a ftp server daemon to be running on my Linux system to receive files via FTP?

Jukka HaavNo. But you need to have some sort of FTP server running if you wish to receive files via FTP, without initiating the FTP connection yourself.

 
I'm getting more confused too...
 
5:05 PM
I think the point is, if you want to send a file to the machine from afair it'll need an FTP server running, but if you log into the box directly you could tell it to download it itself (and so, aren't really "sending" anything)
 
seems more people are confused ;p
(hi @KronoS! how's holidays?)
. or the heatwave for that matter
 
@Sathya Hey! Well actually it's cooling down where I'm at.. Monsoons!
 
@KronoS ORLY? Nice!
 
Ya it has been... only prob is that these storms can be pretty nasty at times...
But it's great to watch at times as well
@Sathya that answer is just plain confusing
 
Be back in a bit, my mom made a good smelling sandwich for lunch
 
5:13 PM
sweet
it's monsoons in my hometown as well
 
I love monsoons...
esp in an area where there is so little rain/moisture
 
:)
 
Really looking forward to this:
BTW @Sathya I was able to get the data 'dump' pulled up into a MYSQL server... but I can't navigate the data very easiliy
 
@KronoS what you using to navigate it?.
 
@DMA57361 MySQL workbench
 
5:27 PM
ah ok, not sure if there's anything much better that's free
(or not free, for that matter...)
(because I don't know, rather than one not actually existing, I should point out)
 
So @Sathya you want to write a wordpress plugin? Is that the starting point?
 
@jcolebrand the starting point is I'm about to shift from a shared host to a VPS
49 mins ago, by Sathya
perspective/background: I'm in the middle of a transition from a fully managed shared webhost to unmanaged VPS
 
So what is the use case of FTP in this instance?
 
@DMA57361 ya I didn't think so... and the prob is more likely my super noobiness in this area
 
47 mins ago, by Sathya
wordpress has a really neat search-click-install feature, where it'll do the installation
 
5:30 PM
But there's supposed to be some documents in the database that I can't seem to find....
 
@Sathya yeah, hence my confusion about the role WP plays here
 
Are you focusing on documents or wordpress?
 
WordPress.
 
Are you using wordpress or authoring plugins for wordpress?
 
5:31 PM
end user, not a developer
you have published a plugin on wordpress' plugins repo
I want to install it
 
And was that page above on the wordpress master server or on your local installed copy of wordpress?
 
@jcolebrand local install.
 
That's why I'm confused. The local server doesn't need an FTP connection to retrieve files
 
which is my confusion as well, and hence the question.
 
If that were being run from a central wordpress repo, then I would understand it
because then they would be pushing to you (odd but works)
 
5:34 PM
JohnT says otherwise:
> Yes, there needs to be some type of server-side software listening on port 21 to accept the inbound connection and process the data. Not necessarily a daemon, but there must be some type of software to accept the connection.
 
Yes, but why
that makes me nervous
any plugins installed locally from the internet do not need you to have a local FTP server running
I presume you never got a chance to use FTP before the advent of Web2.0 then?
 
nope, never.
(I started using the Internet regularly only in 2007)
 
So the FTP server is an app, much like a HTTP server, that listens for incoming requests on a given port (nominally 21) and is one of the "core" web services that most people associate with servers
the others besides FTP being HTTP and SSH
So you have FTP on 21, SSH on 22, HTTP on 80
In every case you have a daemon of some sort listening on that port
the HTTP daemon is usually Apache ;)
early incarnations had FTPd but more advanced packages came up. As someone said, check the repos for what you want to use.
FTP is usually configured (much like HTTP) to have a certain directory tree that is able to be written/read to/from, but anything not in that "sandbox" cannot be seen or accessed.
So it has to be configured beforehand. You have to specify "where" (the folders/directories/paths), "who" (usually local user accounts, sometimes driven off a database so as not to "poison" the local user db), "when" (all good servers have the ability to restrict access), and sometimes "what" but not usually. Also which paths have read and which are read-write
So this isn't as simple as installing apache2, where you can pretty much install it, start the service and look to /var/http/www for the path to put files
Has that been too basic or has it given you a grasp of the underlying bits?
Also, consider this:
putty is a SSHd client
Chrome is an HTTPd client
 
oh I'm aware of the ones you mentioned above
 
so you need an FTP client to access the FTPd service
I just wanted to make sure you understood all the basics.
 
5:40 PM
(I do appreciate the explanation though :))
 
That screenshot above indicates that you need to install a FTPd on your box of some variety.
And that you most likely need to setup a FTP user, to sanitize who does what
 
indeed.
 
It just doesn't make any sense to me
So you need: FTPd software, FTP user, FTP paths
 
which is what's screwing my understanding - I thought WordPress would act as a FTP client because it is requesting a file? If so why would it need the ftp details of the webserver?
 
Yeah, but that's not how I read your question
Because that's specific to the WordPress app
 
5:43 PM
@jcolebrand what was your interpretation?
 
the answer to the question "do I need an FTPd to use an ftp client" is no. Just like you don't have to host HTTPd (apache, IIS) to use Chrome (or mobile safari?)
 
Right, though I can see why you (and others) interpreted it that way
thanks, @jcole
 
Aye. Lemme know what you do find in the end
I'm curious if this would be well placed to be asked at WP.se
 
Yep, I will.
Hmm,
 
> WordPress - Stack Exchange is for WordPress developers and administrators.
 
5:48 PM
wonder if the ideal question for WP.se would like Why does WP require a ftp server to be running to transfer files?
 
Because the page you showed me above is for the administration of wordpress, I think the question is valid there
@Sathya aye, that
And show the screenshot and indicate that you're confused on the topic
woohoo collaboration for answers ;)
 
hehe :) Love Stack Exchange for this.
 
Oh wow we've got an entire wordpress site. Very cool!
 
lol, welcome to the fold ;)
Ooooh @Sathya so the other day @jzy was asking Brent Ozar and some others about how to style for a database site ... :D
We're up to three excellents on A51
 
oh my, that's awesome. Seems like DBA's getting ready
 
5:55 PM
I hope so
we are still a little low on asking new Qs, but that's gone up too
Brent Ozar found out I was one of the mods on dba and followed me on twitter ;)
 
sweet.
I dropped by DBA /users page the other
and I saw a "new" user is on the runaway in terms of rep
 
ok, closing this chat and going back to the tav ;) ttyl
 
ttyl, @jcolebrand.
 
Well that was interesting.
@Sathya DBA?
 
'was a SE that I was really interested in, but then lost interest mainly because of change in scope
 
6:11 PM
Ah okay.
 
9
Q: Why is Area 51 proposal for Database renamed to Database Administrators ?

SathyaOne of the proposals I had committed to, Database is now known as Database Administrators. Why is this so ? Now I fear that the Stack Exchange site is catered more towards Database Administrators than Database Professionals as to which I had committed. (yes, there is a huge difference between da...

 
Unfortunate, then. I should get more involved with Area 51
 
well after that I've stayed away
 
Well, I just found out i have a fever. Lovely.
 
ouch.
 
6:23 PM
Well i felt funny all morning, and checked my temperature earlier..only now its up. Odd.
oh well. Doesnt stop me from using a computer :D
@Sathya gotten that wordpress working yet?
 
yep
turns out permissions
 
Great.
 
indeed :)
 
6:45 PM
Hit a Flag weight 400, very proud of that.
 
6:55 PM
Does FW just +1 for every valid flag?
 
@DarthAndroid you get +10 for a valid flag, -10 for an invalid
once you reach 500, the +'s reduce in value with 750 being the asymptotic target
 
Ah, cool.
 
you get the Deputy bagde at 500 as well
 
Aye, why I was interested. Wanting to know if that was 500 flags or some smaller value.
Now the question is figuring out what my flagweight is now
 
it's on your profile page
 
7:02 PM
@DarthAndroid yours is 130 ;)
 
So it is on my profile page.
I wonder what else is here that I've missed.
 
@DMA57361 Asymptotic? I could not find a good definition of the word.
 
it means it'll never surpass 750
the value will tend to 750 with infinite valid flags
 
Ah, I see.
 
it's a maths term
so if you have 500, you'll get 10 for a flag, but at 740 you'll get less than 1
 
7:13 PM
forget 740, it took me 30 flags to reach from 680 to 687
 
7:33 PM
@Sathya I suppose you don't need to flag things anymore though? Considering you are a moderator
 
@SimonSheehan yeah, I was talking about SO
 
Ah okay
 
@SimonSheehan can you check kurast.sathyabh.at and see if there are major issues that you can see?
 
8:20 PM
@Sathya sorry it took so long to respond, was asleep - looks good to me though!
 
@SimonSheehan no worries, thanks!
will finish off plugins installation and then switch to it
anyhowm i'm off. 2am here!
 
Cya later!
 
8:54 PM
hm
my aircon froze up again
 

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