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3:00 PM
I'm also making a large number of posts on Software Recs to try and establish where the quality bar is
 
Sam
then I guess you are very open to talking, very open minded, and likely to put the rules and yourself into discussion.
For sure I can tell I'm really ready to discuss myself and listen whoever
 
For example:
9
Q: What is required for a question to contain "enough information"?

FlykThis is the question edition of What is required for an answer to be high quality? One of the key problems that I see Software Recommendations having, is people asking extremely vague and simple questions that ultimately boil down to one of the two close reasons we see on the rest of the network...

This meta post discusses what is required in a question for it to be acceptable on the site
 
@Sam psychology didn't studied online communities and humans behave totally different online that how they do offline
 
With the intention that we can close any question that doesn't meet those requirements
 
@Braiam this
 
3:01 PM
The purpose for this, is because otherwise we'll get people asking vague, ambiguous questions that aren't useful for future visitors
 
except @kalina that really has a flamethrower to set people on fire
 
Sam
@Braiam Braiam.. it's really simple.. our brain is always looking for finding confirmation of what we believe
 
@Braiam I haven't set anybody on fire in nearly a month
 
Sam
this is the reason because people can be obstinate..
believe me. I can cover you of links. It's called cognitive & comportamental psychology
 
Those links aren't relevant to how we're planning on running this site
 
Sam
3:03 PM
your believes determines your emotions and your behaviour
everywhere
but this is OT
 
I have long learned to leave emotion elsewhere when I log into Stack Exchange
Emotion has no place here, it's not a discussion forum, it is a question and answer network
 
Sam
@kalina yes, but your believes are always with you
I try to explain
 
Stack Exchange is a place to ask clear and concise questions in order to get clear and concise answers
 
Sam
when a girl believes a fetus is a form of live he can find herself guilty if she aborts
 
@Sam I REALLY GIVE A DARN FK ABOUT LINKS!
 
3:04 PM
@Braiam chill out dude
 
Sam
if she believes the fetus is just a cell he will not
 
you are not trying to win us over, but going against us...
 
Sam
@Braiam no, absolutely!
I'm just praying you to listen
 
@Sam I listened you, I totally disagree with you, got a problem?
 
Sam
I was explaining that our believes about fetus (life or cell) are due to our experience. The people we meet and so on. And this believe are very strong.
we can believe we are doing something good while we are killing people
 
3:06 PM
@Sam again, that is bullshitting here
 
Sam
(think some soldiers for example)
 
Your beliefs are not a free pass to go against the community's consensus
 
Sam
@kalina of course!
 
we do not care about your knowledge, believes, whatever makes your psique. We only care about hard on facts about what works in the SE platform
 
And in this instance, the community's consensus is saying that your posts are below the bar set for minimum quality
 
3:07 PM
and your behaviour is doomed to fail because you don't understand us
 
Sam
but if you know that everyone opinion (beleve) is created by some thoughts that can be rational or irrational it will become easier to recognize your good ideas from the bad ideas we are strongly believing in
it's not the strength of a believing that states it's true..
 
@Sam yes but the ideas you're proposing go against the opinions of hundreds/thousands of people who've discussed these processes for years
do you really think you're the first person to say "Voting to close should need more people to vote"?
 
Sam
wait..
 
or "If a post is reopened the people who closed it should have a penalty against them" ?
 
Sam
no.. I don't think so
 
3:09 PM
or "Please make it so you can't downvote without leaving a comment" ?
These issues have had literally years of man-hours spent discussing them between all of the people who've taken part and the number of people who've asked these questions
Those are our beliefs
 
Sam
@kalina I'm not saying I'm ok. But the number of people sharing an idea is not a good indicator that this idea is right. (it doesn't mean the opposite, and I strongly believe you have a lot of experience and that this matters a lot)
 
The way Stack Exchange works was not decided by one person, it was decided by a community of very intelligent people discussing the pros and cons for a long time
 
Sam
If you want I can bring you million of example to demonstrate that we can always improve and that the opinion of many people is not always perfect. But I think you already agree with me on this point.
I'm not trying to say that SE should change everything
 
Oh sure, no system is flawless, but there are far more serious problems at the moment than the way Stack Exchange works
For example, the fact you're emotionally involved and take downvotes personally
The fact that whenever anybody tries to help you, you start quoting psychology at them and essentially telling them that they're close minded and not listening
While being closed minded and not listening yourself
 
Sam
every system is not perfect. But there is a really important things that I would like you to read, just because a psichologyst can explain this things (that you already knw by intuition) better than me
 
3:13 PM
You're doing it again, right now
 
Sam
@kalina no, sorry.. I don't do this
wait..
are you sayng that I think you are narrow minded?
absolutely not
it was absolutely not what I mean
 
I'm saying you won't take my opinions, which are based on personal experience of doing exactly what you're doing right now, on board
 
Sam
please listen for one second
 
I'm trying to save you from yourself
 
@kalina don't pass judgement. Let the man speak.
 
Sam
3:15 PM
kalina, I agree with you for the 90%
 
@Undo I'm not, we already established this fact earlier in the conversation
 
@kalina I'm just saying you're being a bit heavy. Let him talk for a while ;)
 
ok, apparently you have your believes that are contrary of what everyone else thinks. You don't try to listen us when we explain how things works nor give us good reasons to change or methods to fix what you believe is wrong. This whole conversation is unconstructive and I better spend my time answering questions. Have a good day.
 
@Undo I'm waiting for him to say the big thing he's typing out
@Undo focus on @Braiam, I'm being friendly :P
 
Sam
@Braiam wait.. I agree with every of you for the 60 to 90%
 
3:17 PM
@Sam say the thing you were going to say
 
Sam
can I tell you the only, small, little issue that I see?
ok
 
@kalina ¬_¬
 
Sam
here most of people is speaking as if there are just 2 alternatives
 
@Braiam I told you, chill out :P
 
Sam
strict rules
 
3:18 PM
@Sam An example? I see the same thing.
 
@kalina what gave you the idea that I'm mad?
 
14 mins ago, by Braiam
@Sam I REALLY GIVE A DARN FK ABOUT LINKS!
 
Sam
the concept of trying to classify the whole world of sfumatures just to b&W is called dicothomic
I REALLY GIVE A DARN FK ABOUT LINKS! (what does it mean?)
 
@Sam Yes, but we do need to be rather strict during private beta. Especially for a site like this, right?
 
Sam
or no rules
 
3:19 PM
> 14 mins ago
 
@Sam our rules, at best, will only ever be able to cover 95% of posts
there will always be edge cases
 
Sam
@Undo ok, but this is what I call a "belief" and maybe it can be really a good belief
 
It has merit, absolutely.
 
Sam
but this belied sometimes could lead do a distorsion
 
However, based on our past experience across the rest of the network (where recommendations are off topic), without these rules, this site will go downhill extremely rapidly when it becomes public
 
Sam
3:21 PM
you should always ask yourself: "why do I think that this question should be closed as too broad?"
the answer is:
"because otherwise this community will go downhill extremely rapidly when it becomes public"
and now ask:
Am I dealing with dicotomy?
I've to remember that there is not just only b&w
why do I believe this community will go downhill extremely rapidly when it becomes public?
closing this question is really helping to improve the quality?
this community is as the others?
which are the edge case?
 
The answer to "is this question too broad" is "will this result in a large number of answers", "could it be narrowed down further", "is there obvious information missing that could improve this post"
 
Sam
the beginning belief was absolute
the world instead is really relative
 
If you ask for an image editor that you can draw lines in
That is going to be too broad
 
@Sam Have you read the Ground Rules?
 
Sam
yes, but why a large number of answers is always bad?
 
3:24 PM
If you ask for a computer game in which you play a character that has a name
 
Sam
also for this section?
 
That is going to be too broad
@Sam yes, too many answers makes it difficult to read through all of the answers
and I'm not calling "20 answers" too many
I'm calling "hundreds of answers" too many
 
Sam
@kalina of course I agree.. but I asked for a safe erase program for windows which was freeware and could wipe free space
 
@Sam no, you need to let go of this question
The issue with that question was you broke the rules
 
Sam
you see why I'm saying the reality is not b&w?
 
3:26 PM
You asked the question, you got downvotes, you edited it, it got closed, and then you deleted it and re-asked it
 
Sam
@kalina no.. it was voted for closing and then voted for reopening. And the question here is if the rules are good. How we should apply, if to modify.
 
If you delete and re-ask a question to get around close votes or down votes, that is against the rules of Stack Exchange
It's not even one of *our* rules - it's the rules of the network that hosts the site
and in those instances, you will get downvotes and closed again
 
Sam
@kalina I deleted it, I reopened it. this was against rule. Now start the second step.
the new question was voted as too broad
 
You deleted it and then posted it again
 
Sam
and then the new question was reopened
I'm speaking only of the second question
 
3:28 PM
No @Sam, you're missing the point
 
Sam
not of the deletion and reopening.
 
Asking why it was closed "too broad" is a pointless discussion because you broke the rules
It was closed because you broke the rules
Yes, they should have probably chosen a different reason
 
Sam
I don't understant..
but you are missing another point
 
Ok, what point am I missing?
 
Sam
1st) rules can improve
 
3:29 PM
Not these rules
 
Sam
ok
 
If you break these rules multiple times, you get banned
 
Sam
the second point is
I'm pointing very clearly an issue
 
The issue of the close reason used is not a discussion worth having, because the question was closed because you broke the rules by re-asking it
 
Sam
and you are continuing to speak of my initial fault avoiding to speak of the central topic
 
3:30 PM
No, the initial fault is the topic
 
Sam
ok
 
let me put it like this
If you had asked one question
 
@kalina chill out :P
 
Sam
now forget it and come back to the topic we were speaking of
 
and it had been closed as "too broad"
@Braiam I'm chill
then there would have been an issue
and I would agree with you on that issue
I really would, I don't see any major issue with your current question
 
Sam
3:32 PM
If I wouldn't delete that question
it was already closed as too broad
but then it would be voted for reopening
only one vote was missing
this is the issue of which I'm speaking
 
@Sam and, if you had left it and not deleted it, today I would be on your side defending you, asking why it was closed as too broad*
* = provided it hadn't been dramatically edited or something like that
But since you deleted it, I can't see it, so I have to work with what I can see
and what I see, is you asked a question, it got closed, you deleted it, and you re-asked it
 
Sam
@kalina because your believe is that "breaking the rule of deleting and reopening one question is a very bad bad thing"
 
@Sam It's not my belief
 
Sam
how bad you would score it from 0 to 10?
7?
 
Those are the house rules
 
Sam
3:34 PM
and killing one people?
 
First time? 5 or 6
Second time, now you're been warned? 10
 
@Sam breaking the rules is always a bad thing, they are rules for some motive, right?
 
Sam
and firing people? making abort?
 
Wow, did you just compare Stack Exchange rules against murder?
interesting
 
Sam
do you understand what I mean?
 
3:34 PM
The two situations are not comparable, they're different contexts
 
palmface
 
Being a member of Stack Exchange is a privilege, not a right
Because of that, if you don't play by the rules set by Stack Exchange, you'll get banned
 
Sam
I'm askying you to compare how firmly you believe that is a very bad thing to cose a question and open it again and how it influences you
ok
 
@Sam Closing a question? I really couldn't care if a question gets close
 
Sam
you see how emotional you became
when I tried to break your believe?
 
3:36 PM
I'm not emotional?
I'm stating fact
 
Sam
psycologist never try to ask people to break their believes
 
These aren't my beliefs
 
Sam
they always ask people: "why do you believe this?"
however..
 
My beliefs have nothing to do with you breaking the rules
I am merely trying to help you
 
Sam
ok, and I thank you for this...
 
3:38 PM
I'm in a unique position to help you, because when I first started using Stack Exchange I caused a lot of trouble by not understanding the way the system worked
I know what you're going through
but it has nothing to do with murder, beliefs, or anything like that
 
Sam
but try to understand this:
1) I believe in rules
 
ok, lets explain what a rule is kids:
rules exist in humanity to allow all of us live together in harmony. They are a set of behaviours expected from the individuals of a community and if those members break them they incur in some kind of penalty.
 
Sam
2) sometimes people can believe in rules in a very excessive way
 
There are only a handful of rules: don't cheat, be nice to people, those sort of things
Deleting your question to get around it being closed is cheating.
 
Sam
and intelligent people are the one which starts to put this rules into discussion
 
3:39 PM
It doesn't measure up against murder in the real world, but on here, it's important
 
Sam
@kalina ok. It was bad
I agree
I was upset
 
Yes - I know
 
Sam
there are many other things wrong here
 
Hence: don't get emotionally involved
 
@Sam the saying "if you die in Canada, you die in real life" doesn't apply here
 
Sam
3:40 PM
also the behaviour of who voted the first time as too broad..
my error was bad 10?
 
I have closed questions, I've got questions that people have chosen to delete. It doesn't bother me - the community chose to delete my content, it happens.
 
what happens here is totally detached of real life
 
Sam
and those people error 0?
 
@Sam No, it was a first offence and you didn't know the rules
what you did was a 5 in the first instance
 
Sam
@kalina I mean befor deleting
 
3:41 PM
in the first question? I don't know - you deleted it
 
Sam
@kalina yes
I deleted becouse I got downvoted as too broad
 
Because you deleted it, I can't see things like if it was a bad question that you edited to make good, what you said in comments, etc
 
Sam
so I though this guys are crazy
they don't think before voting
 
Therefore I can't comment on it because I don't know what happened with it.
 
Sam
@kalina I just copied and pasted
now you know...
 
3:42 PM
Ok, let's start anew
(a) don't ever do that again
 
Sam
I did an error
I opened a question
 
@Sam I seriously think that this is not the site for you to be...
 
(b) if you feel you're being mistreated, tell me, and I'll look into it and explain it to you
 
Sam
it was closed
I got upset
It was voted as too broad
I deleted it
 
and if you are actually being treated unfairly, I will make a lot of noise until people focus on treating me unfairly instead of you
5
 
Sam
3:43 PM
and I opened the same identical question
@kalina ok
I will try to collaborate with you
 
but now, clean slate - if people downvote you or close vote you, politely ask them why, don't start quoting psychology to them because while it is an interesting subject they're just not interested
don't start telling them they're wrong
2
 
Sam
ok...
 
give it half a day or so and see how it plays out
and if you still feel it's wrong, come in here and link it to me
I'm not saying I'll magically fix it for you, but if the question deserved to be closed I will tell you exactly why and what you can do to fix it
 
Sam
it's really hard for me.. but I will try to behave as you are asking me..
can I add just a last concept?
 
sure, why not
 
Sam
3:45 PM
don't see it as an accuse
it's just something like reading best practice but about psychology
dychotomic is an important concept bpd.about.com/od/glossary/g/dichot.htm
but there is another also very important
in psychology any excess is dangerous
everywhere I think it is
 
I agree, and I don't want to close every question that gets asked here
 
Sam
also the excess of rules can lead to a problem
it's very rare
 
But if we allow the minimum quality level to be too low, this site will be destroyed by the end of the month
 
Sam
it's called obsessive and comphulsive disorder (strong form)
yes, of course
 
There is no OCD going on here
We're currently not even all that close happy
 
Sam
3:49 PM
for this reason I say (and also psychologys) a bit of flexibility is good
 
I've seen much worse on other sites
 
@kalina I'd argue that we're not close happy enough, actually.
 
Sam
yes, I think this can be a very great community
 
@Undo I agree
I have to go and do some work for the last 40 minutes of my day
back in ~90 minutes or so
 
Sam
but I (it's my IMHO) would like to be less strict on window dressing things..
:D
 
3:51 PM
@Sam the window dressing is part of the quality
 
Sam
ok
 
you'd be shocked how much it matters
and you should take that on board
asking a good question with spelling mistakes and horrible formatting means that people won't fully read it
 
Sam
ok.. but we can try to improve it the same in some way.. talking together in a civil way
 
but I really need to bbs
 
Sam
ok, bye
thanks
 
3:54 PM
Noooo someone is suggesting edits and I'm out of reviews.
So that number in my top bar is just going to get bigger and bigger.
And I can't do anything about it ;(
 
I. need. more. selfanswered. questions!
 
4:14 PM
good god I have 14 seconds of latency on my rdp session
 
@kalina could you please edit your synonym-tag-question on meta on Meta (Private beta cleanup: tag synonyms and tag merges) and make the hint to "community-wiki your answers" bold? I've just edited a bunch of my posts since I forgot that part #D
 
@Izzy You have 500 rep, right?
 
1k :)
 
You can edit it, then.
 
Of course, right you are...
 
4:17 PM
You're better doing it
My rdp locked up
 
ouch.
 
CBA don't it on mobile
Doing!
If not I'll do it once I get home
 
Done
@kalina Already did it. Feel free to re-edit if my "highlighting" feels too heavy #D
 
I rm'd the exclamation marks, they seemed a little... extreme. But otherwise it looks great.
 
I don't mind. There is a edit history for a reason ;)
 
4:20 PM
@Undo As @kalina wrote: history. I first put the exclamation marks, then thought quoting might be better, then forgot to remove the exclamation marks again... D'oh...
ouch. We've got a tag. Troublesome.
Suggested wiki-excerpt: Lean CSS is a notation language to enhance static CSS
Yeah. Or is it the *nix less command? Who reads tag-wikis anyhow? #/
 
I searched for "less" in all SE and the usage is for the less commands mostly (unless it's less quantity)
 
such a high quality tag
well at leas my tag discussion generated some activity
shame the quality posts seem to have been largely uncommented on
I can only assume that means everybody thinks I'm right
(which I'm fine with, btw)
 
anyone else thinks image is a very bad tag?
 
home time woo
@Braiam it's already under discussion on the tag post I made on meta
 
4:38 PM
Exactly. As is
Btw: Long queue already. Who is processing it, so posts can be removed to clean that up?
 
I need more rep :/
 
full ack! need another 1k at least, makes live easier in the review queue...
Oh, there it goes: the one and only question just got re-tagged :D
 
4:59 PM
@Izzy someone quickly submit an excerpt edit " is " and for : " is ". Then make them tag synonyms. Perhaps that will help clarify it for some people. :P
 
5:11 PM
@DanteTheEgregore I will kill whoever do that...
 
now it's time to go and make a mess out of myself
 
5:43 PM
@Braiam Leave me a place for a hole then, please! Or maybe you shoot the holes, and I pull the ropes through them? That leaves a 3rd place for anybody who wants to put the rope on a tree (or on a stone, before throwing the construct into deep, deep water).
@kalina Urgs. Hope you're not referring to the post immediately before yours!
 
@Izzy Nah, I'm more sophisticated. I just write your name in the Death Note and done.
 
6:33 PM
@Braiam Write it on the bullet, will do #D
 
7:23 PM
It's really funny how meta here are closing any questions which is counter corrent. Do our way or you are out? :D This is the community you want to create? — Sam 17 hours ago
ugh
 
@allquixotic shh... you will be psychoanalyzed and your bad behaviours and character exposed :P
 
7:35 PM
not him again.
 
Yeah, I skipped answering Sams posts already as well. Seems a waste of time as he doesn't seem to listen to arguments.
I just came across the struts2 tag. As I'm totally biased on this (I use it often) could someone else decide if it should stay or be removed?
 
Is it OK to ask a question on this site that I really doubt has an answer at this time? Specifically, I'm looking for a H265 (aka HEVC) VFW codec, so I can render directly from a Sony Vegas Pro project into HEVC without an intermediate step. I think I'm a pretty darn good googler and have come up empty. Is it something I should ask?
 
@allquixotic Yeah shure.
 
but yeah, go ahead.
 
@allquixotic Why not? You will be surprised what people come up with here. Even if you think there is no answer, does not mean you should not ask the qeustion, in my opinion
 
7:49 PM
how should I handle tags that should be removed but belong to closed questions? (Tag "tablet" -> its about hardware and the question is closed because of this)
 
@AngeloNeuschitzer just remove them..
 
@Bernhard in all likelihood, a correct answer to the question today would be "Sorry, no, this does not exist" -- but maybe in a year or two there will be an actual answer with a recommendation
@Seth yeah, "mm" indeed (RE: your deleted msg), super expensive -_- and I paid full retail
 
@allquixotic That can never be an answer, at most a comment.
 
I'm not a pirate >_<
 
especially in private beta, just ask the question in a concise manner and see where it goes
 
7:54 PM
@allquixotic yes, terribly expensive. I use Corel VideoStudio because of it :-/
 
Are you for real, or is this a breaching experiment? — Gilles 22 mins ago
I would suspect it @Gilles
 
@allquixotic There was even a meta thread for this but I can't find it atm.
 
@Seth meaning, you'd like to use Vegas Pro, but you're using something cheaper/free that's functionally worse because of the price?
 
@allquixotic Exactly. Video Studio really isn't bad, but it isn't as awesome as vegas either.
@allquixotic corel.com/corel/product/index.jsp?pid=prod4900077 I'm using an older version though (X4)
and Kdenlive
 
I really wish that Sony would drop the price on that, but then I've always been against ridiculously huge software prices -- and the funny thing is, I could make a convincing, correct, numerically sound argument (given a lot of time and data) that Sony and other astronomically high priced software vendors could make more revenue by selling their software cheaper
 
7:57 PM
@allquixotic I'm sure they could. I know they could.
 
the general idea is this: you sell licenses to your software at $40 - $50 price point so that your everyday consumer can afford it; you get lots of purchases; but don't include individual support with the license. if people want support, you can sell a la carte support separately on a per-incident level, or varying degrees of enterprise support plans.
that way, fat enterprises still pay $40 - $50 per seat, plus thousands per year for a robust support plan so they can call you up at 11:30 PM on a Sunday and get a hotfix patch
but Joe Poor can just buy a $40 license and enjoy it for personal use, and if he has any issues he can post on a forum
 
Exactly. Or do it Canonical's way, free to use, pay for support :P
 
free to use is "ideal", but I was thinking of how to do it within the mental framework of proprietary software vendors
 
I know, it was a joke :P
 

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