The Playground

12:01 AM

@Beofett Thanks

10 hours later…

10:05 AM

@Annoyed, regarding your comments on this answer, I believe that teaching poor English does more harm than good. Especially when schooling begins, teachers will have to work hard to un-teach the bad English, so the result is slower learning with poorer results.

I would need some evidence of that

I don't know about Austria but you can't expect all that much from primary school English teachers anyway

So it might all feel a little silly for you, as a fluent English speaker in a fully bilingual home but I think all your warnings are unwarranted and a little bit condescending

@Annoyed you're welcome to do your own research and post another answer on the topic.

@Annoyed And you're calling me condescending? :-)

It's just a small detail you could improve in your answer, not a completely different answer, that's why I merely made a comment. What's condescending in that?

OTOH, if you have some actual evidence, I would be interested in it as well

@Annoyed I think your remark "you can't expect all that much from primary school English teachers anyway" is condescending. Teachers are trained and that's more than you can say about the average parent in a country where there is basically zero English exposure because all media is dubbed to the local language.

10:21 AM

Fair enough

@Annoyed I'm speaking based on personal experience, though I didn't make a formal study out of it :-) I've seen enough parents who can hardly speak four English words in a row, yet they teach single words to their kids. In my opinion, that's futile. That's all I'm saying.

Well, no, I don't think that's all you are saying, that's my point

You are saying they should avoid it if they are not perfectly fluent

@Annoyed true. It's a response to being fluent yet living in a country that isn't. It pains me to hear people speak English, to the point where I can't stand it. So if kids should learn English, get someone skilled to teach them, rather than feeding them one's own poor English.

Well, I suspected as much and that's what feels like snobbery to me

You're entitled to that feeling. I've grown up learning several languages and I can see first-hand that good command of a language is immensely valuable - especially concerning a world language like English.

Sorry, I have things to do now - but thanks for the chat!

7 hours later…

5:21 PM

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun It isn't only your opinion Torben, It takes at least 20% of the child's waking hours in a given week of hearing a second language spoken fluently to even get the child conversational according to a couple of books I've read. However, I do think there is value in even just introducing the idea of other languages to kids in a monolingual environment such as the one I'm in. In that regard, even a few words here and there at least opens their minds to there not being only one way.

In that way, I think for children in a monolingual environment, even learning a few words here and there introduces them to the idea of other cultures, other languages, and other ways of doing things - that is helpful, even if it isn't helpful in the sense of communication it is helpful in the sense of creating open minds. To me, it is only a first step, but an important one in creating minds that aren't going to be closed to other cultures just because they are unfamiliar.

Where you are, you probably run into second and third languages a lot more often than we do here so it may not have crossed your mind as even a need. Even just the fact that the TV's are dubbed, means eventually kids are going to see the lips don't match the words coming out and ask why. That doesn't address the Austrians that can't speak it. . . annoyance you have, but . . .

Hi @Doc Haven't seen you here before. Welcome.

I see you are a user on EnglishSE that's cool.

Beofett

5:52 PM

@balancedmama Evidence in support of that theory.

Sadly, I'm familiar with the "we speak 'murican here" ideology, but the idea that hearing an iconic song sung in multiple languages is somehow offensive... ugh.

Doc

@balancedmama Thanks. This is my first time in the Parenting Chat, though I've been on the SE for a little bit now (mostly just voting and dropping occasional comments rather than asking/answering).

2 hours later…

7:39 PM

@Beofett What? I'm just speaking about the idea that teaching kids a few words in other languages here and there isn't a bad thing - even though it probably isn't useful in terms of actually teaching them the language itself. No songs in multiple languages etc.

Ah!! Since I was watching the game, I took my "socializing breaks" during the commercials (like any good Hawks fan would of course) - totally missed that commercial.

Given taking a look at the link - I totally agree with you. The United States have been a place of vast diversity since the first explorers landed here (and I'm not talking about the European ones - even the so-called natives were hugely diverse with many languages and belief systems).

To think that Speaking English is somehow the only way to be "American" misses the fact that there are two entire continents with the name America (most of which does NOT speak English as a first language) and that it is truly a place for all.

Actually, I was hosting so I used the commercial breaks to replenish beer, clear dishes, re-stock wings etc. etc.

Beofett

7:56 PM

I watched nothing related to the game. I only heard about that commercial because Wil Wheaton linked it on Google+ :P

1 hour later…