« first day (1236 days earlier)      last day (4082 days later) » 

Bob
Bob
18:00
@allquixotic Only producer can answer since he made it in his own mind.
I like to think about what possibilities there are, but I never try to convince myself of the truth of one possibility over the others when there is something unexplained in sci-fi, because any reasoning I do in my head is not science, it's just rhetoric
@Boris_yo who cares what the author thinks? it's really irrelevant -- he could answer one way or another to lend consistency to the show, but that doesn't make it true
Bob
Bob
@Boris_yo The writers themselves often don't care to make it up. They just leave it as something unexplained.
@allquixotic It does make it true as far as the plot goes, though.
@Bob correct; and they do that because it doesn't matter
Bob
Bob
Which is completely irrelevant to real life anyway.
That's why fan-created works (fanfiction, etc.) can be so varied.
Everyone makes a different set of assumptions.
18:02
all I know is that in Star Trek, they're able to escape the grandfather paradox time and time again, and I really don't care how they purport to have escaped it, because it's all non-science anyway
Can foreigner learn about American culture through movies?
@Boris_yo very poorly. most people don't live their lives the way people live their lives in movies.
@allquixotic Assume alternate realities
@allquixotic Same probably with other cultures in the world.
Because movies serve as get-away from daily life...
@Boris_yo no shit? if Bollywood were representative of reality, then Indians would randomly start doing a group dance whenever they face a problem, and through dancing they come up with the solution
in over 2 years of working with them, I've never seen a single Indian dance. ever.
@allquixotic :D !!!
Bob
Bob
18:05
@allquixotic Oh god. Now I can't stop laughing.
What I observed is that some like to move and nod their head...
@allquixotic Like rap-battle and dance-battle I get to see in comedies.
(I should perhaps clarify the above that I am referring to Indians from the country of India, and not "native American [indians]")
@allquixotic Yes, understood. But do you know what russians do when they face problem?
@Boris_yo before 1991, or after?
@allquixotic What before and what after.
18:09
@Boris_yo before 1991: in Soviet Russia, problem solves YOU!
after 1991: i dunno, you tell me
@allquixotic Haha :D
Not sure. Dance Polka and drink Vodka?
oh, oh, I know
Russia doesn't have problems nowadays, because Putin solves all problems :D when there is Putin, there are no problems
@allquixotic You should write a regex that @ChatBotJohnCavil listens for, and switches it around for the phrase
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic He's Putin your problems away.
Ok, that was bad.
Lol indian movies... They always dance there!

Meteor is falling! What to do? Dance and meteor would get away!
18:11
@CanadianLuke in Soviet Russia, regex writes YOU!
@Bob Putin as verb?
@Boris_yo Putin -> putin -> puttin -> puttin' -> putting
do you follow now?
@allquixotic Which is past, present and future?
@allquixotic So people are not born... They are written by Regex?
@Boris_yo I have no clue what you just asked me.
@allquixotic So do I about what you wrote there.
18:14
!!tell 12819924 wiki pun
The pun, also called paronomasia, is a form of word play that suggests two or more meanings, by exploiting multiple meanings of words, or of similar-sounding words, for an intended humorous or rhetorical effect. These ambiguities can arise from the intentional use of homophonic, homographic, metonymic, or metaphorical language. A pun differs from a malapropism in that a malapropism uses an incorrect expression that alludes to another (usually correct) expression, but a pun uses a correct expression that alludes to another (sometimes correct but more often absurdly humorous) expression. H...
How about I write Wikipedia database into my brain's NAND chip?
use SRAM, not NAND, or you won't be able to remember anything new by the time you're 50.
Bob
Bob
paronomasia o.O
@allquixotic I am only willing to write it once so no NAND wear.
!!define paronomalia
18:16
@Boris_yo paronomasia (rhetoric) A pun or play on words
@Boris_yo My pocket dictionary just isn't good enough for you.
"Coming through, officer! You have to let us in! This is an emergency! This woman has acute paronomasia of the upper hippocampus! It's an extremely unstable condition!"
reminds me of Star Trek IV
"what did you tell him she has?"
"cramps."
@allquixotic I want to upgrade my hippocampus...
@Boris_yo not storing enough hippos in your campus already?
so you're saying you want to change your mind?
there must be something wrong with the one you already have.
@OliverSalzburg I just ate a delightful thing by "www.lionproducts.eu" called Zitrone and it has Germany/Allemagne on it... your country needs to move over here so I can eat these, they are better than donuts!!
popping up on the Steam window of Germany: "You have been invited by USA to join the North America group"
Bob
Bob
Nexon support => steaming pile of crap
how the fuck do you manage to not respond to a support ticket for a week and a half?
scratch that, there's an older ticket about the same issue that they haven't responded to in a whole year despite multiple reminders
@Bob Nexon? Face of Mankind dev?
....Sugar Rush dev
that was a fun game but it got canned AFAIK D:
the other game I liked quite a lot (and was ahead of its time) is Mythos, which was a game based on the network stack by ping0, the same network stack as Hellgate: London, but it was isometric like Diablo... it was meant to be a testing ground for the network infrastructure of HGL, but it turned into a fun game of its own right
HGL was one of the first native 64-bit games I played, too.
18:35
@allquixotic I need more storage for information.
@Boris_yo just entangle some quarks or something
@allquixotic Do I have to be CCNA to get this?
@Boris_yo no.
@allquixotic Darn you Americanization! The only translation I get for quark is KVARK in russian ;(
English will replace all languages and everyone will speak same language like it was before tower of Babel was built...
!!tell 12820314 wiki quark
18:40
A quark ( or ) is an elementary particle and a fundamental constituent of matter. Quarks combine to form composite particles called hadrons, the most stable of which are protons and neutrons, the components of atomic nuclei. Due to a phenomenon known as color confinement, quarks are never directly observed or found in isolation; they can be found only within hadrons, such as baryons (of which protons and neutrons are examples), and mesons. For this reason, much of what is known about quarks has been drawn from observations of the hadrons themselves. There are six types of quarks, kno...
@allquixotic So... it was a lemon?
@OliverSalzburg it was a cookie, but it tasted like lemon, but very sweet, and frosted with some kind of vanilla frosting
small and star-shaped (10-sided star I think)
past midnight here, so merry Christmas
Merry
merry day that people tend to get technology presents (assuming a reasonable degree of affluence and peoples' relatives caring about their wishes)
it's Tablet Day, basically
18:42
"What are you waiting for? Christmas?" - by Duke Nukem when standing idle.
@Boris_yo I remember that :D
not a Christian, so yay! Holiday!
@Sathya you don't have to be Christian to like Christmas, if you mean it in the commercial/capitalist context (:
Merry Capitalism Day! (:
@allquixotic No need to wonder what relative wants. Just navigate to your relative's public WishList ;)
is funny how Holy-days are not Holy anymore...
18:45
@Braiam When was the last time they were?
@Boris_yo beats me...
Once it was everyone associating Christmas with Jesus. Now everybody associate Christmas with discounts desecrated by evil.
@allquixotic wut?
Ash
Ash
user image
4
@Bob wut wut?
18:49
@Ash Bad Santa...
Bob
Bob
@Braiam It's a bad pun. See a few messages above for the context.
@Bob had to...
btw, do you know how to make a bad pun an awesome pun... when you say "no pun intended" D:
Bob
Bob
O.O
Bob
Bob
>
96MB RAM
32MB vSwap
1 CPU Core
CPU: 2.0Ghz+
10GB Disk space
Unlimited bandwidth
1Gbps uplink
1x IPv4 address
OpenVZ/SolusVM
$12/Year | Order
unlimited bandwidth gigabit???
18:56
oh hey it's @OliverSalzburg's birthday too :D happy birthday mate
11
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Do you want 4petabytes of data transfer for $12?
@Sathya Really? Wow, I don't know if that's good or bad timing :P
Happy birthday @OliverSalzburg
Ash
Ash
!!cowsay " Happy christmas *<]:{)"
 __________________________
< Merry Christmas *<]:{) >
 --------------------------
        \   ^__^
         \  (oo)\_______
            (__)\       )\/\
                ||----w |
                ||     ||
!!cowsay Happy Birthday Oliver :D
 _________________________
< Happy Birthday Oliver :D >
 -------------------------
        \   ^__^
         \  (oo)\_______
            (__)\       )\/\
                ||----w |
                ||     ||
19:08
there.
@OliverSalzburg HB man!
;-)
@CanadianLuke Is it Psy or what? North Korea or Poland?
@CanadianLuke What? I thought context referred to dolphin in first place...
Wanna make money on YouTube? Shoot yourself talking shit 300 times with 10 minute length and surprisingly you will make money.
Hi @allquixotic
19:28
!!no
@allquixotic That sounds like a good deal
@LewsTherin not really -- I'm sure the provider has some proviso like "if you dare to do anything at all with this "box", we will disconnect you"
":O you logged in ?!?!?!?! this box is for pinging purposes only !!!!!!!!!!!"
YGWYPF applies here
19:32
@allquixotic I guess you are right. More AMD questions :D :D. Were you able to get AMD powertune boost?
@LewsTherin ask someone else; I'm busy working (: and I have no idea what "powertune boost" is; AFAIK, PowerTune is a feature built into Catalyst that you can't change.
That's collosal number of views and likes...
@allquixotic Sure np.Workaholic..
;)
oh, 6392 HP on Candybox (no cheating needed)
Okay, got their secret: authenticviews.com
19:36
@Boris_yo OMG...
@CanadianLuke They use botnets or brain-controlled YouTube viewing slaves?
Ash
Ash
!!fetch some cool Christmas quotes
@Ash That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
How to steal airplane in GTA 5
19:55
Hey can centos 6.4 use php 5.5?
@billmalarky sure -- you can always compile the version you need
Compiling not necessary
How come I have to get it from webtatic instead of php.net?
And is it stable? Why can't I install it the "normal way" on centos?
@slhck he did say 5.5, not 5.4
@allquixotic Eh, sorry.
20:00
Dropping by to wish you all a Merry Christmas :)
@billmalarky because CentOS doesn't ship every possible version of every possible FOSS package; it would take way too much time and disk space to maintain all that
:P
Because it's a separate repository.
Is webtatic official?
I am a complete noob at systems stuff btw guys if you couldn't tell
@billmalarky official in what sense? official to whom or for whom? CentOS is a community distro anyway; if you want "official", buy a Red Hat Enterprise support subscription
Define "official" – it's not from CentOS or php.net, of course.
Just a package repository where you can get stuff. Nothing unusual these days when the "official" distro repositories don't contain the newest versions of programs.
@SimonSheehan Merry Christmas to you too!
20:02
obviously you are thinking in terms of clickwrap installers on Windows; things don't work that way on GNU/Linux... compiled programs aren't typically provided by the person/company/group that developed the code; the source code is released (if it's open source, which most stuff you use on Linux will be), and the distribution compiles packages for you
@slhck I feel like last time i saw you, you had 10k rep... wow haha
you don't go to php.net to get PHP, apache.org to get Apache, etc. on Linux -- again, it doesn't work that way
@SimonSheehan Must've been forever :P
Suppose so aha
@allquixotic Why would the "official" repos not contain the latest versions?
20:04
Stability reasons. You want the versions to be compatible with all others that you officially supply.
@billmalarky because; a distribution is released with a certain set of tested packages, and those packages are maintained for a number of months (or years) with security updates only
there are a few "rolling release" distros like ArchLinux which just constantly update every package to the latest stable version, but due to many interdependencies between packages, you very often end up with a broken system that way -- certainly not a way to run a production server
@slhck So even though the php organization built 5.5 they won't release it until they have tested it with the rest of their stuff?
Is webtatic somehow related to the php organization?
@billmalarky In principle, yes. But they won't release it for old CentOS versions anyway.
@billmalarky you misunderstand -- because it's open source, you or anyone is free to compile the latest version from the source code and either run it directly or distribute it to other people, which is what webtatic does
CentOS is a community distribution that uses the source packages (which means the same source code) as Red Hat Enterprise Linux, which is released every 2-4 years with a set of heavily tested and validated packages that all work together with each other compatibly and have been found to have very few defects
asking for the very latest packages on CentOS/Scientific Linux/RHEL is pretty silly in general, except for a few things which don't have many dependencies (or dependants, for that matter), which are fairly isolated and easy to update on your own, either by compiling it from source, or grabbing someone else's repo
@allquixotic I understand the concept, but generally isn't there a "focal point" in open source where the community generally agrees to get stuff and the leaders of the community can maintain a bit of control regarding direction and quality of the code?
20:08
people run CentOS and its ilk because they don't want the very latest packages which may contain changes that break backwards compatibility and so on
ohhhhh
^-- that
@billmalarky no, there is no such thing, you are hallucinating
Ever had a production web server run on PHP 5.2 and upgraded that to 5.3?
there are people still running the Linux 2.4 kernel from years and years and years ago
20:08
Worst. Idea. Ever.
people who run serious enterprise services that have to be up 24/7 don't want or need the latest packages; they need stuff that will bloody well work, and have some degree of guarantee that if there is a security vulnerability then it will be fixed
So distro of linux what should I be running considering I'm developing a new project that I want to be relatively stable but not enterprise level. I'd like to be able to use php 5.5
that's the sort of guarantee that RHEL/CentOS provides that more bleeding edge distros don't provide
@billmalarky the latest release of Fedora, Ubuntu or OpenSUSE will tend to have sufficiently up to date packages... or Debian Testing
but when it comes down to it you may just have to either do some distro shopping to figure out which distro has the program versions you want, or compile stuff yourself (it's really not that hard; you just used the word "developing" which implies you have some degree of programming competency)
@allquixotic ignorance != hallucinating ;-)
Fedora is on a 5-6 month release schedule and they generally have the latest available packages as of about 2 months prior to the release date of the distro version
out of the above options they're probably the most bleeding edge
20:11
Unless you want a rolling release, of course.
but do take "bleeding edge" to mean what I intend it to mean -- not only are the packages fresh and new; they're also much more likely to contain bugs or incompatibilities than more stable distros
I don't want cutting edge and I don't want enterprise, I want whatever is smack dab in between
Anyway I have to go, Raiders of the Lost Ark is on TV. Laters!
this is why enterprise IT departments can realistically say that they're OK running Windows Server 2003 in 2013
also I'm using digital ocean if that measn anything
20:12
they're not fools for not immediately updating to Windows Server 2012 on its release day
I have no idea what "digital ocean" is
Makes sense. I just want to be a bit ahead of the game so I can use new stuff for this new project, and I know if I start with old software than a year or so later my project will be super outdated
I'm not a PHP developer
digital ocean is a hosting company
They seem to be taking the world by storm
So regarding security, people use old versions of software and just get security patches for it instead of moving to the next version?
well, PHP 5.5.0 was released 20-Jun-2013, which is around 6 months ago -- any of Fedora 20, Ubuntu 13.10 or the latest OpenSUSE should contain some version of php 5.5; and the minor releases (5.5.1, 5.5.2, 5.5.3, etc.) are not compatibility breaking, they're just little bugfixes and tweaks
I was under the impression that newer version = more secure but it seems that would not be the case and instead newer version actual just means newer features.
20:15
@billmalarky depends on what you mean by "people"
large enterprises who have written a huge internal system or web portal or something using an older API will probably continue to stick with that version of the API as long as possible, which tends to mean, as long as upstream continues to provide security updates for the packages
that's because it's expensive to update to a new platform when you likely have to incur some downtime to perform the upgrade, then test the new system, and meanwhile you have to have your developers refactor their code whenever backwards compatibility has been broken
Is ubuntu good as a server? I've only ever used centos since it seems every single hosting company defaults to it. But maybe that is to make their life easier...
Yes that makes sense
updating from RHEL6 to RHEL7 is going to be a royal pain for almost everyone, because the entire low level of the system has changed from sysvinit to systemd; so a lot of init script stuff will break
@billmalarky depends on who you ask -- that's an extremely subjective question and can't be answered objectively
do people use Ubuntu as a server? yes, undoubtedly
Well objective in that is performs well adn is stable
@billmalarky once again, "performs well" and "stable" are subjective terms which can't be nailed down objectively.... one person's "performs well" is another person's "unacceptably slow"; "stable" for an enthusiast could be "batshit insane unstable" for an enterprise that needs 24/7 HA
At the very least ubuntu has a large company behind it adding to stability.
20:21
some people are so averse to change that they're still running FORTRAN code that was written in the 1970s, because they know that the code works and is 100% reliable and was formally proven... and if the code they wrote to replace it had some kind of bug, it could cost lives and/or billions of dollars
Lets call it "start up" stable. Stable enough to feel comfortable building something on it that people pay for and expect to be up, but not hospital grade...
@billmalarky then probably Ubuntu LTS (Long Term Support release, not just any old release) or CentOS or Debian Stable or RHEL
but once again, just because you can't yum install php55 out of the box doesn't mean that you can't support someone running CentOS 5 or 6 while still requiring php5.5
you could even go out of your way to support those customers, by providing pre-built downloadable packages of php 5.5 for CentOS 5 and CentOS 6
you wouldn't be the first one -- I recall some fairly large company -- was it Facebook? -- providing an updated Apache and PHP for CentOS 5
Hmm, this osrt of questions gets asked rather a lot.
Don;t we already have a post for it.
Of should I just post it in a generic way and let Allquitoxic paste his chat log as an answer :)
@Hennes I've done a lot of googling already but realtime discussions are usually much more valuable
20:25
They are.
But you are not the first to ask. Nor the first to ask in chat.
Which makes me wonder how many other people wondered, and how many actually searched the site for it
What software can I use to see what data my browser posts to a website?
@user2162942 firebug
webscarab
or chrome dev tools
or IE dev tools
Or to be more specific. Use any proxy, let all traffic flow via that proxy.
(As generic answer to all browsers).
Firebug in firefox is nice, but FF specific
20:27
how can I access chrome dev tools?
I believe just press f12
you could also use Fiddler
there are tons of tools
yep f12 and the look at the "network" tab
ok thanks, this helps a ton!
20:28
np
@Hennes damn, missed that one and all that easy rep
so many answers now, don't think i could add to that
I did not even try. We had two answers and I just tried to add a bit of extra information. Suddenly there are a dozen answers, 10k views and I hit the rep cap on a poor answer.
there. it's closed
@allquixotic I guess what sort of confuses me is that if I go to php.net I can see them talking about 5.5 and it's in the downloads section, but I can't yum install it to centos but I can for like ubuntu or something? Is that because the built in installers for linux only use their "official" repository where everything is heavily tested and guaranteed to run?
for the record i VTC'ed and downvoted the Q because I think it's way too broad
20:30
Ah, I was considering 'opinion based' because of the 'Why would people'.
Then I reconsidered, though the question could have been framed better
@billmalarky the repositories that are enabled when you first install a Linux distribution are the repositories maintained by that distribution, not repositories "out on the internet" -- to get other repositories by third parties you'd have to specifically enable them, and know what they are
most open source software projects don't even bother to build repositories of their software, because there are too many Linux distributions for them to attempt to target; they'd end up having to build it for about 50 different distribution+version combinations just to cover 90% of the users
@allquixotic And they don't add new packages to the official repository until it has been thuroughly "tried and true" tested?
@billmalarky with a few exceptions (Ubuntu and Fedora updating to the latest Firefox and OpenOffice), most distributions don't update to new major versions. there's a distinction in versioning nomenclature between major versions, minor versions, micro versions, and sometimes nano versions; the actual nomenclature varies from project to project
what the distro repository package maintainers have to determine is, "does this newly released version constitute a compatibility breaking change, or is it just bugfixes and security updates?"
if it breaks compatibility, chances are very good that it won't make it into a distribution repo as an update to an already-released distro; it'll be included in the next version of that distro itself
So webtatic is just some guy that has complied php 5.5 so that is able to be installed easily into centos and rhel?
if it just fixes bugs and security but it doesn't break compatibility whatsoever, it will probably be included as a downloadable update without updating to the next distro version
20:33
okay that makes sense
@billmalarky basically, yeah.... I don't know anything about what webtatic is, they could be a company of some repute, but as far as I know it's "just some guy"
How does one know they are getting a secure version of the software from "some guy"? Hashes?
With which value would you compare the hash ?
@billmalarky think of the Windows equivalent: what if Microsoft provided a Windows Update to Internet Explorer 11 on Windows XP without even bothering to test it? as you may or may not know, if you attempt to run IE 11 on Windows XP, it will crash on startup... it's a good thing they test these things first
I guess the hash from php.net?
20:35
@billmalarky no, hashes won't do you any good in that case
the compiled binary packages are going to be unique in some way, and the source code hash won't help you, because it's not the source code you're downloading; it's the binaries
If I really needed it on CentOS I would download from php.net.
Compile it on my own.
Make a RPM from it, and install the RPM
Thus allowing me to deinstall it whenever I want
the binary packages would be unique because there are things like build timestamps and package version information that are distro-specific in the package metadata
So basically if you don't compile it yourself, you are trusting someone more or less.
basically if you are downloading binary packages from the internet, regardless of whether they're from CentOS or Ubuntu or Fedora or Debian or webtatic, you are taking a risk that some potentially malicious code is in there
20:36
even if you download the source code and compile it yourself, you're still taking a risk that there is a major security vulnerability in the package, either accidentally or intentionally left there
the only way to be fully certain is to perform formal mathematical verification of every line of source code before executing it
But I have greater trust in organizations that have an incentive to not be malicious vs "some dude" who may or may not.
and to build yourself a compiler toolchain from scratch, because your compiler could have been compiled by a compiler that implants malware in compilers that it compiles, etc. all the way back
don't laugh
this is a real scenario
That's what makes it so fucking funny.
20:38
The compiler which recognised login.c is an old story
Classic
The more I learn the more paranoid I get....
@billmalarky "for the purposes of a startup" I really can't see any reason to be overly paranoid even about third-party repositories, as long as they're well-known in the community
EPEL, Remi, rpmfusion, etc. are fairly well-known and frequently downloaded
could those binaries be tainted? sure thing
no one's done any formal methods testing on them
I bet NSA doesn't use them in their top secret stuff though
in fact I'm certain that they don't, because that would violate the common criteria standards
For future reference: The Ken Thompson hack
if you are doing anything related to intelligence, military, human safety, medical, nuclear, hazardous chemicals, defense, vehicle systems, etc., you really should stop now and learn a lot of things before proceeding
if you aren't doing anything related to any of that, press on and grab the webtatic packages
Well I already nuked my centos server and am spinning up a new one I hope digital ocean supports ubuntu LTS
20:42
a gray area is financial transactions -- those tend to want to be very secure, but even if something bad happens, typically nobody dies, nothing explodes, if a financial system fails or is compromised
generally when we identify financial compromises we can correct them
so, not as critical as defense or nuclear or human safety or medical
That makes sense.
Also with many financial transactions involving credit cards the credits cards are protected by the insitutions behind them against fraud.
yeah, although you might have to pass a PCI audit if you handle credit card data
I'm not even sure if PCI would care that you downloaded third party PHP packages
Where I work uses PCI and it seems they care more about human theft than software secuity
IE, me writing down credit card numbers.
typically for stuff like that, people will purchase a recurring yearly subscription to official support by Red Hat themselves (or Oracle, ugh) for RHEL, and run whatever packages come with the system, without downloading third party packages
okay so the long term support version of Ubuntu is 12.04?
20:45
and if they need versions outside of what Red Hat supports, they'll have an internal server in their enterprise that they use as a package server. they'll compile the packages from source, verify the hash of the source to be sure it's genuine, then compile, and store the packages on the package server, and distribute them to their production and test servers
apparently it's 12.04.3 LTS
@billmalarky as of now, that's the latest one, yes... although since 12 . 04 was released in 2012 . April, that's much older than PHP 5.5 of June 2013 vintage
so you'd still have to grab PHP 5.5 from somewhere
@allquixotic interesting
the next LTS is due in April '14, and that will definitely have PHP 5.5 or later
@allquixotic goddammit lol. Well webtatic here I come.
20:47
kind of a weird time to be looking for up to date / recent enterprise distros, because both Ubuntu and Red Hat are on the verge (less than 6 months away) from releasing new major versions of their enterprise server distros
RHEL7 is due in Q1 2014 per the latest rumors (the beta is already out), and Ubuntu 14.04 is due no later than the last day of April 2014
Well I'm looking to start a project today ;-)
@billmalarky development and production are two entirely different things though
for the purposes of writing your code I would certainly be comfortable with something bleeding edge like Fedora 20
write your code using the latest platform, get it working well, and by the time you are ready to sell it to people, Ubuntu 14.04 will be out ;p
and RHEL7 hopefully
Ohhhh yeaaaah
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic heh. it is rather absurd, isn't it?
I hadn't even thought of that
Bob
Bob
20:49
@Hennes php.net has been compromised before, multiple times
@billmalarky this is a pretty common paradigm usually, especially because Fedora is what RHEL is (eventually) based on, except that it's a lot newer
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic and hope they aren't on some crappy shared hosting only supporting php 5.2
@Bob Good point.
Yup. As has the BSD place I used before.
It got noticed though and proper alerts were sent
Does fedora have a fair amount of community support like ubuntu?
20:50
when it comes time for them to do a RHEL release, what they do is they take the latest Fedora packages, "branch them off" (which means stop updating to the latest stable versions), and do testing, testing, testing, testing, and break them, and bugfix them, and security patch them, for 6 - 10 months
and Fedora's community support is awesome
I tend to do a lot of googling since I don't have any friends that have systems experience.
GREAT!
okay gimme a sec
So fedora is cutting edge.
Bob
Bob
@billmalarky if you're doing anything critical, you'll want to spend some money on professional auditors for any code, and probably a proper sysadmin for any production servers
RHEL is enterprise, and centos is just free rhel without the backing of a company?
@Bob Hah I'm just one man trying to build an MVP app
Bob
Bob
@billmalarky just be sure you aren't handling anything sensitive...
Where does ubuntu fit in? They were just the go-to GUI os of linux and have grown a company out of that?
@Bob It will be a paid for product but I'll be using an outside source for all financial stuff, like stripe.
Bob
Bob
20:54
e.g. don't process payments yourself, use an established payment processor (i.e. don't store any CC info)
@billmalarky yea, that's the safe way :)
Yeah I'm going with stripe
Bob
Bob
@billmalarky Ubuntu pulls packages from Debian unstable every 6 months and freezes/tests them
it's like a custom, more stable, version of Debian unstable
with corporate support/backing
So they are the RHEL of debian?
@billmalarky Ubuntu has a lot of their own code that differs fundamentally from Debian in incompatible ways; they are separate projects. Ubuntu is based on Debian in a similar way to how you are based on your parents, but you aren't an exact clone of them
Bob
Bob
Note that Debian stable is still more stable than Ubuntu
Debian unstable changes quite quickly
20:56
Okay out of the following, what should I dev on that won't make me want to kill myself when everything explodes but I can use somewhat recent stuff on like php 5.5

Fedora 19 x64 Fedora 19 x32 Fedora 17 x64 Desktop Fedora 17 x64 Fedora 17 x32 Desktop Fedora 17 x32
Ubuntu's release schedule is every 6 months they put out a stable release, but only every 5th release is an LTS release
Bob
Bob
Oh wait, Ubuntu takes new packages until a month before release.
honestly I'd take Fedora 20 (it just came out a few days ago)
I figure I'll do coding in fedora, then prod on centos.
20:57
@Bob they bump the Debian package freeze up further in the schedule for LTS for improved stability
Wait allquix what did you say was coming out april 2014?
Bob
Bob
And, yea, they're definitely not a clone of Debian, but the majority of their packages are pulled from Deb.
@billmalarky that should work, as long as you kind of look ahead to what the next CentOS is likely to have in terms of package versions, and be careful not to use any code APIs that depend on something fundamentally newer than that
@billmalarky Ubuntu 14.04 LTS
Bob
Bob
Personally, I prefer the deb-based systems. Never really figured out RPM :\
I believe CentOS 7 (a.k.a. free as in beer version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7) will contain PHP 5.5. Its base system will be based on a blend of Fedora 19 and Fedora 20 packages. You can already see what major versions they'll have by testing RHEL 7 beta if you are interested
20:59
Cool
Fedora 20 came out December '13 so that's super new... I think the RHEL7 kernel will be from Fedora 20
Should I really be using fedora 20 if it's that new?

« first day (1236 days earlier)      last day (4082 days later) »