« first day (2221 days earlier)      last day (2701 days later) » 
01:00 - 21:0021:00 - 23:00

1:52 AM
hello
anyone here?
 
 
2 hours later…
3:39 AM
< 49th recipient of the Tenacious badge --{raspberry}-- ;)
 
 
4 hours later…
7:38 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly non-Latin body: Whether english translation of a tamil passage below is correct? by krishna kumar on english.stackexchange.com
 
 
6 hours later…
1:45 PM
Did WillHunting quit?
 
2:03 PM
@curiousdannii Possibly. He does tend to do that every so often.
 
Anonymous
@curiousdannii Yes, he deleted his account. He's done it a lot – ten times or so? So far he's come back every time, though.
 
Anonymous
Dec 5 at 19:37, by snailplane
@WillHunting Farewell forever, Will Hunting! Talk to you again soon.
 
2:19 PM
A bit of shameless advertising for the IoT.se private beta whoever wants in can provide me with an email and I'll invite you.
 
2:30 PM
@Helmar Ugh. Can I have out of the entire concept? Please?
 
@terdon huh?
 
Not the SE site, I'm sure that's fine, but do we really need so many networked things around us?
@Helmar I really don't like the whole concept of IoT. Or, at least, not in the way it seems to be set up at the moment. It seems, to my admittedly ignorant eyes, like the mother of all privacy violations.
And the father of all security risks.
 
Anonymous
@terdon The mother of all botnets? :-)
 
For example.
 
Toaster DDoS attack incoming ;)
 
2:32 PM
Or that horrible Amazopn thing that is constantly on and listening to your conversations. Brrrrr
@Helmar Surely that would be a DDoT attack!
 
Anonymous
@terdon Yeah, what's with people treating that as an actual thing they want in their homes?
 
No idea. None whatsoever.
I've met exactly one person who had a valid reason to use voice search and he has only one arm.
It gets worse. We now have toys that record what our children say and send it back to the manufacturers who, in turn, sell it to defense contractors of all things!
 
@terdon I always knew that the end would come in the form of militarized toddlers.
 
@terdon I watched a test of that on TV yesterday. Advantages included turning on lights or adjusting a heating thermostat. Both of which already require automation which generally includes a smartphone app (so laziness is not a reason to get one).
 
@AndrewLeach Oh? So it isn't even "Computer, lights on!"?
 
2:37 PM
@terdon It is if you have smart lights
 
@terdon Well, yes it is. But in order to activate the lights it interfaces with a switch which already has an interface.
@terdon Where is the privacy violation here? Where is the personal information included in that? I don't like the concept, but the objection seems flawed.
 
@Helmar And will they be sending back a record of how often I turn the light on or off and, by extension, how my sleep cycle works so I can then (in the best case scenario) start receiving spam about sleeping pills and (in the worst) be ruled out for a job because I like to stay up all night?
@AndrewLeach Read the second link as well. The violation is that, apparently, these things record the voices around them and send them back to the manufacturers.
 
@terdon Yes, commands are sent to the server
 
That really, really creeps me out.
 
2:39 PM
In extension the rest is possible
 
Yeah. That's what worries me.
Who will have access to that information? How will it be stored?
What is the benefit that outweighs the potential risks?
 
Well I trust Amazon more than all the home-made apps that record my sleep patterns.
 
Anonymous
Can it be subpoenaed? Hey, we noticed you have access to recordings of everything that's been said in forty households around this neighborhood. Gimme.
 
@snailplane Doesn't work that way
It only transmits after the codeword
That has been tested over and over by tech sites
 
@Helmar Really? Why? I'd trust pretty much any random internet person over a large company. Simply because the company has both the ability and the connections to do "bad things" with that data. Not saying they will, necessarily, but they might if they find a monetary value in doing so. it would be much harder for your average script kiddie.
@Helmar What does, Alexa?
 
2:42 PM
@terdon yeah
 
And how easy is it to hack into it and change that?
 
Remains to be seen, I guess
 
@terdon "There is no ‘data mining’ or storage of any personal information" with Cayla, at least in the UK.
 
That's my primary worry with all this crap new stuff. They don't seem to have given any importance to security.
 
Anonymous
@Helmar But I do have to trust them, and trust that that behavior won't change for any reason.
 
Anonymous
2:43 PM
Whether it's Amazon changing it or a malicious third party.
 
True
 
@AndrewLeach I'm not sure that's true but, even if it is, the potential is there. And that is scary.
 
@terdon Your telephone has a microphone too
 
I know :(
 
That can also be remotely activated
 
Anonymous
2:44 PM
@Helmar Faraday cage! :-)
 
@snailplane :)
 
It somehow feels more sinister to have kids involved though. "Don't worry, we may be collecting what your kids say but we're too nice to abuse that" just doesn't cut it for me.
 
@terdon Security is already going strong to be the most asked about tag on the new site ;)
 
Yeah, I'm not surprised.
 
@terdon That sentence does not appear in the US version of the FAQ, although it included in the Dutch FAQ on the US site.
 
2:48 PM
EU privacy laws, probably. I'd check the UK faq again next year, if I were you ;)
 
Ha. Fortunately all EU directives are implemented by Act of Parliament, so leaving the EU won't make a difference to our Data Protection Act.
 
At least there's that :)
 
@AndrewLeach Ha. Fortunately all EU directives are implemented by Act of Parliament that's not an often heard sentiment :D
 
It's fortunate because it means there is no immediate change, and the entire edifice of EU legislation can be unpicked piecemeal, with consideration and care. Without that parliamentary foundation, the entire UK legal system would be undermined and collapse overnight.
 
@AndrewLeach Yeah, that's true.
 
2:57 PM
Anyone who actually wants all EU legislation to disappear at a stroke is a madman. Or an anarchist and a subversive.
I suppose that might apply to at least one national newspaper.
 
Wasn't there some hearing on the whole Brexit thing this week?
 
Supreme Court.
It's complicated. I'm not sure I understand the argument the plaintiffs are bringing.
 
@AndrewLeach You forgot 'moron' and 'ignorant'.
Those are also options. Sadly.
 
@AndrewLeach I thought it was just we are a parliamentary system, a referendum cannot be binding unless a law says so before.
 
@Helmar I think Jacob Rees-Mogg demolished that argument quite well in a Commons speech. He said the referendum was to advise the Crown in its prerogative, not to advise Parliament.
 
3:12 PM
Well I'm not an expert in British constitutional law. In Germany the parliamentary system says clearly that the people as sovereign entrust the parliament to act. That's the basis why there can be no binding referendums over here.
 
The Royal Prerogative to enter treaties or to declare war does muddy the waters a bit.
 
That Commons session does not seem to be very popular :)
I get what he's saying, but I think it's really a purely legal argument that cannot be tackled with reason.
Anyways as I said I have no clue about what your constitution says.
 
No-one does. It's unwritten. It's decided by Parliament and the courts.
It's no way to run a country, really. Surprising that it's lasted for a thousand years.
 
Well as they says, nothing lasts longer than a provisionary solution
 
4:11 PM
@AndrewLeach Purporting that an unwritten constitution somehow serves as a nation’s controlling legal foundation can seem to this ultramar observer more akin to praising the fashion sense of the emperor’s new clothes than to defensibly sound jurisprudence. :)
 
Anonymous
 
@snailplane Bonk?
 
Anonymous
@tchrist I think it's a reference to the "Smarttress".
 
ew
Smarttresses haven't been popular since Medusa and her sisters.
 
@snailplane I know, titled Rise of the Machines :D
 
5:05 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Request for explanation: the funtion of "doing something" in " be busy doing something" by Lê Hiến on english.stackexchange.com
 
 
2 hours later…
6:36 PM
Hi everybody! :)
 
Hello!
 
Has anyone ever used/heard about "Random House Learner's Dictionary of American English"?
I saw this title here: wordreference.com/definition
 
I use that site sometimes but I have never used their dictionary.
 
6:57 PM
@Mori But you can very easily ask one of their moderators on "Wordreference". Just click on their name and select "start a conversation" with that particular person. I have done so in the past. You will see this page:
Ask them :)
 
@Arrowfar: Good idea! I'll give it a try.
 
@AndrewLeach Wait...what exactly is unwritten in the UK system? the base document outlining procedure and roles? basic human rights? title to the property that abuts royal hunting grounds? You mean it's all in everybody's heads?
 
7:14 PM
The constitution of the United Kingdom is the sum of laws and principles that make up the body politic of the United Kingdom. It concerns both the relationship between the individual and the state, and the functioning of the legislature, the executive and judiciary. The UK does not have one specific constitutional document. Instead the constitution is found within a variety of written and some unwritten sources. This is sometimes referred to as an "unwritten" or uncodified constitution. The British constitution primarily draws from four sources: statute law (laws passed by the legislature), common...
 
@terdon whoa dude ... random? There's a lot of crazy out there.
 
@Mitch Yes there is. But I'm less afraid of the lone crazy than the crazy with intent and limitless resources.
 
@AndrewLeach how can you check it then? "
@terdon well I don't want to say anything bad about amazon because they're probably liste.. notices insect buzzing ... really? Amazon is so open about all its policies in comparison to a random crazy person. Also their delivery speed is amazing.
ama zong
There you go Amazon, you can use that for free.
buzzing stops
 
I didn't know Amazon could listen to us.
 
Yes it is and I admit to using them all the time. I just have a thing about large corporations collecting my personal data and try to avoid it when possible. And the idea of having a microphone in my house with the ability to record random conversations and upload them to a large corporation scares me more than uploading them to some random crazy person.
 
7:19 PM
And howdy Mitch and terdon
 
@Arrowfar Gah! SHHHH! Why are you saying that out loud!
 
Alexa is an intelligent personal assistant developed by Amazon.com's Lab126, made popular by the Echo. She is capable of voice interaction, music playback, making to-do lists, setting alarms, streaming podcasts, playing audiobooks, and providing weather, traffic and other real time information. Alexa can also control several smart devices using itself as a home automation hub. Most devices with Alexa allow users to activate the device using a wake-word (such as Echo), other devices require you to push a button in order to activate listening-mode. Currently, interaction and communication with Alexa...
 
@Mitch :)
@terdon Ah!
 
I mean it is crazy to think they can understand out thoughts. The technology is just not even close. But listen? Pfft
 
Hell, if it can wake up with word, it is obviously constantly listening for that word.
@Mitch I don't think anyone can understand your thoughts. You're probably safe from our machine overlords.
 
7:21 PM
@terdon I'm personally terrified that they'll hear what I really think about getting oily food stains out of my shirts.
Also, the garbage pick up schedule? Down with the man!
 
@Mitch I thought phone taps and computer hacks were for listening etc.
 
@terdon Word.
 
AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Don't do that!
 
@terdon I know. I expect that after the revolution, when we get to look at the government files that they've kept on us, I'll be searching for days through the stacks of paper, microfiche, and edocuments, I'll find a manila folder, pull it out carefully, open it p gingerly and find a single slip of paper that says "no interesting information".
"mostly harmless"
"who?"
"You're staring right at him". "That guy?" "No, the one right next to him" "Him?" "No, in between them" "That one?" "No, no. no... wait, where is he?"
 
So I knew these chats were completely public but I didn't know I could even enter here in real time without logging in. Even when I was not using the site I sometimes entered the room without even logging in and I could even see the edit history of messages here.
 
7:40 PM
@Arrowfar If you go to 'site rooms' and click on the lower right link on a room, you get a transcript. Is that what you're talking about?
 
@Mitch No, I mean if you log out, go to site rooms, enter ELU room you could start reading what people are talking at the moment.
But you might already knew that :)
Not the transcript. Those are public too of course.
 
@Arrowfar you can read what people are saying in the transcript or by being in the room. Like you and are now. Or are you talking about a third thing?
 
Yes by being in the room at the moment.
But no one will see you heh.
 
THat's the transcript.
or if it is this third thing, how do you do it?
 
But we have to reload the transcript to see new things.
If you are in the room you don't have to reload the transcript.
I am sorry if iI am confusing you lol.
 
7:47 PM
so in the room but your avatar doesn't show on the sidebar? How do you do it?
 
You will have to log out first.
 
@Arrowfar and then what?
 
Then enter a room, click "join" as usual.
 
and then?
 
And then you see like you see now.
But you won't be able to talk of course.
 
7:48 PM
how is that differnt from being in the room?
can you see me now? Haha hahah aha! I'm invisible you can't see me!
 
Is it not. I mean when I was not using the site I did this sometimes.
 
I can say anything!
blah ablha lbah ballh
Take that!
 
:D
 
boog booga booga
 
lol
 
7:49 PM
what?
You can see me?
puts robe back on
 
nothing.
yes I can
 
Well, then it didn't work.
you do it.
 
aaahh this is getting dragging, we should change the topic :-)
by the way "this is getting dragging" is correct English right?
Promise not trolling you. :)
 
@Arrowfar because you have no writing accent at all, it is an acceptable infelicity/misstep. But the usual way to say that is 'this is getting to be a drag'
 
Ah I see, thank you.
What's a writing accent? googles
 
Anonymous
8:04 PM
Accent is a feature of pronunciation that identifies where a speaker is from, regionally or socially.
 
Anonymous
In writing, you have no accent, pretty much.
 
Anonymous
Accent is distinguished from dialect, which refers to grammar and vocabulary as well.
 
I see. You mean me specifically, or people in general?
 
Anonymous
People in general. Generic you.
 
nods
 
8:07 PM
@Arrowfar I am using it metaphorically since accent usually refers to the sound of someone's speech.
 
Ah!
 
When some non-natives write, little tiny mistakes often come through and give it an 'accent'. Like someone Russian leaving out 'the', or someone from Singapore putting a Singlish 'la' at the end
 
Anonymous
See David Crystal's A Dictionary of Linguistics and Phonetics for the difference between accent and dialect.
 
Anonymous
I think there's also a good description in his encyclopedia.
 
Like I make mistakes all the time but those mistakes are ... expected (like eggcorns or common nonstandard grammar or leaving out a word that native speakers don't notice.
 
8:12 PM
I just one mistake in speaking English, I always use "The" with "Thuh" sound, and never "thee" even before vowels. It just seems difficult, so I skip it. :)
 
Anonymous
@Mitch In Chomsky's terms, you're a "competent" speaker, but we distinguish competence from performance. Competence is what you expect, performance is what you get :-)
 
I know it might make me seem uneducated but what can I do, it will take a lot of practice.
 
@Arrowfar You also out the verb.
 
@Mitch Um I don't follow.
 
@snailplane Chomsky is an ass. I don't think he's a competent enough to tie his own shoes.
 
8:13 PM
@Arrowfar He means that the was missing in your sentence.
 
oh I see.
 
And hello.
 
And hello Cerbs
 
Anonymous
@Mitch I think Chomsky has done a lot of bad to the world of linguistics, but I don't think everything he's ever written is wrong or useless.
 
Anonymous
May 30 '14 at 13:01, by snailboat
> The English as a foreign language learner is advised to use ðə before a consonant sound (the boy, the house), ði before a vowel sound (the egg, the hour). Native speakers, however, sometimes ignore this distribution, in particular by using ðə before a vowel (which is in turn usually reinforced by a preceding ʔ), or by using ðiː in any environment, though especially before a hesitation pause. Furthermore, some speakers use stressed ðə as a strong form, rather than the usual ðiː.
 
Anonymous
8:14 PM
(Longman Pronunciation Dictionary)
 
> I [...] just one mistake
 
@snailplane Which allows one to treat linguistics scientifically. And allows a resurrection of 'introspection' (which is then verified by other people agreeing or not).
 
@Cerberus ah that, hah a typo :)
 
nods
 
@snailplane haha, I'm just messing around because it is Saturday. or December. or 2016.
 
Anonymous
8:15 PM
@Arrowfar So if you use the /ðə/ "thuh" allophone before vowels, try to get in the habit of inserting a glottal stop /ʔ/ (the sound in the middle of "uh-oh") to prevent hiatus (the sequence of two vowels).
 
@Arrowfar "I just one mistake" Well I just two mistake then. So there.
 
Although short the before a vowel is still considered cacophonious by some even with the glottis.
 
@snailplane Ah, yeah. Thank you!
@Mitch lol
 
Uh oh. Let me save myself...
I just seven mistake. Now your turn.
 
Anonymous
@Cerberus As Wells says, learners are advised to use /ði/ before vowels.
 
8:17 PM
@Mitch I just ten mistakes.
;)
 
@snailplane Yeah.
 
Anonymous
But if someone chooses not to do so, I think inserting a glottal boundary between the two helps it sound more natural.
 
@Arrowfar Argh! No! You just ate mistake!
Dang it Foiled again!
 
@snailplane Nice point. I starred it. :)
 
@snailplane Do you pronounce 'button' with a dental flap or with a glottal stop?
 
Anonymous
8:19 PM
Since that's what native speakers tend to do. That is, the subset of native speakers who don't always use the traditional distribution of allophones.
 
Anonymous
@Mitch Glottal.
 
@snailplane very obvious or subtle?
 
Anonymous
Obvious.
 
Anonymous
I'm from Illinois.
 
I think it is an ....age thing.
 
Anonymous
8:20 PM
I'm 35.
 
haha I'm not trying to extract either of our ages but that is ... young :)
Or it could be regional.
 
Anonymous
I'm fairly certain it is regional.
 
Anonymous
I don't know how age factors into it.
 
anyway, wasn't that traditionally a dental flap like 'writer/rider'?
@snailplane By young people moving to that region.
ha! I won that argument!
Next argument: 'We're all going to hell in a handbasket' Evidence for and against?
 
Anonymous
@Mitch I read about this before, but I don't remember the details.
 
Anonymous
8:23 PM
Maybe it would make a good question for ELU if it hasn't been asked before.
 
@snailplane Needs a tiny bit more data to make a clear question.
Or maybe not. Could be a poll for what people say nowadays.
 
@Mitch Nobody has a flap there.
 
Where do you think people use the dental flap (or retroflex flap or whatever it used to be)?
 
That would be buddin’ — maybe.
 
@Mitch I have a different concept of hell so there, I won the argument before it even started ;)
 
8:25 PM
We have no dental flap in English.
We have an alveolar one.
 
@Arrowfar not so fast. if the particulars of hell for this argument are the same (there is surely overlap in the different concepts) then the argument could still apply.
 
The alveolar tap or flap is a type of consonantal sound, used in some spoken languages. The symbol in the International Phonetic Alphabet that represents dental, alveolar, and postalveolar flaps is [ɾ]. The terms tap and flap may be used interchangeably. Peter Ladefoged proposed for a while that it may be useful to distinguish between them; however, his usage has been inconsistent, contradicting itself even between different editions of the same text. The last proposed distinction was that a tap strikes its point of contact directly, as a very brief stop, whereas a flap strikes the point of contact...
 
@Mitch Oh! yeah.
 
@tchrist OK fine. that one. so maybe it is retroflex palatal flap after all.
 
Dental flap is rare; alveolar, common.
 
8:27 PM
@tchrist isn't the spansih standard single 'r' a dental flap?
 
@Mitch No, alveolar.
You don't touch your teeth.
 
Anonymous
Also, a few prominent linguists distinguish taps from flaps. In particular, Ladefoged always did. He would call these "taps".
 
@tchrist I thought everything they did was dental and not alveolar.
@snailplane OK. what ever is a trill but reduced to a single shot.
 
@Mitch You’re thinking of the the t/d and paired fricatives.
 
er... around the 'alveolar', not some fancy show-off uvular trill
 
8:29 PM
Not the coronal tap and trill.
 
Anonymous
> Some forms of American English have both taps and flaps. Taps occur as the regular pronunciation of /t, d, n/ in words such as latter, ladder, tanner. The flap occurs in words that have an r-colored vowel in the stressed syllable. In dirty and sorting, speakers who have the tongue bunched or retracted for the r-colored vowel will produce a flap as they move the tongue forward for the non-r-colored vowel. (A Course in Phonetics, p.176)
 
Anonymous
But his distinction didn't really catch on.
 
Many Scottish speakers have a distinctly tapped /r/.
 
@snailplane fluoroscopy of sound passages is both expensive and potentially teratogenic.
 
It's coronal, and occurs even in words like early bird words.
But everybody knows that. :)
 
8:31 PM
@tchrist Ther should be a bilabial trlll.
a raspberry as a phoneme
an unvoiced bilabial trill? horse neighing.
 
Anonymous
@Mitch Either one.
 
Anonymous
I'll have to type up another passage to explain.
 
@tchrist does she neigh in there?
Or are you disparaging her equine physiognomy?
 
Anonymous
> A tap or a flap is caused by a single contraction of the muscles so that one articulator is thrown against another. It is often just a very rapid stop gesture.
 
Anonymous
8:35 PM
> It is useful to distinguish between taps and flaps. In a tap, the tip of the tongue simply moves up to contact the roof of the mouth in the dental or alveolar region, and then moves back to the floor of the mouth along the same path. In a flap, the tip of the tongue is first curled up and back in a retroflex gesture, and then strikes the roof of the mouth in the post-alveolar region as it returns to its position behind the lower front teeth.
 
Anonymous
> The distinction between taps and flaps is thus to some extent bound up with what might be called a distinction in place of articulation. Flaps are typically retroflex articulations, but it is possible to make the articulatory gesture required for a flap at other places of articulation. The tongue can be pulled back and then, as it is flapped forward, made to strike the alveolar ridge or even the teeth, making alveolar or dental flaps.
 
Anonymous
> Flaps are distinguished from taps by the direction of the movement—from back to front for flaps, up and down for taps—rather than by the exact point of contact.
 
Anonymous
(A Course in Phonetics, 6th ed., Ladefoged & Johnson, pages 175–176)
 
Anonymous
Both of those are at least a little bit different from a single-contact trill, though.
 
Anonymous
So strictly speaking, explaining a flap as a single-contact trill isn't exactly right, although I think it gets the general idea across pretty well.
 
8:41 PM
nice. thanks for the transcript. I don't have that.
 
I perceive the phonemic difference between the classic Spanish minimal pair of pero/perro to be in the single-vs-multiple trait alone. There might possibly be other traits that differ, but I don't think think they "count".
 
or anything for that matter.
wait...
no don't have that either.
@tchrist Is there a missing 'don't' in there?
 
Anonymous
@tchrist That's probably accurate in terms of auditory phonetics (how the sounds are perceived), but I wonder if it's true in terms of articulatory phonetics (how the sounds are produced).
 
Not being a spanish learner I've always thought of pero/perro as exactly that single vs multiple trill
 
Same here.
 
@snailplane That's why I mentioned the other traits.
@snailplane It brings nothing up for me.
 
Anonymous
Oh :-(
 
It is past mid night here. Good night
 
Anonymous
Frown.
 
@Arrowfar later
How do you say 'good night' ?
 
8:54 PM
Me?
 
laila ... something?
@Arrowfar yeah
 
haha no
 
Anonymous
The link works from here for me. Are they doing a referrer check? scholar.google.com/…
 
Anonymous
I am also signed into academia.edu right now.
 
Anonymous
I'm just looking through Google Scholar right now :-)
 
8:57 PM
@Mitch hm wait... we never say good night, I don't. I usually say a complete sentence (informally) like this: "main so raha hon" or "sona ka wakt ho gia hai abi"
 
@Arrowfar shab bekhair
 
Its a transliteration from Urdu.
 
what does it mean?
 
@Mitch Yeah I know. I have never used that phrase in my life. It is the phrase that is found on the internet and kind of formal I think.
Yes "shab be khair" is "good night"
That's the proper version but no one uses it.
 
it's so hard to tell when phrase suggestions are just word translation as opposed to cultural translations.
Like 'How are you?' Some culture do that, some don't (and say something else, it's not like they spit in your eye)
 
8:59 PM
You know here we have like three "Yous"
One is very polite, one less polite and one kind of rude.
Although all three are "You".
Same meaning.
 
01:00 - 21:0021:00 - 23:00

« first day (2221 days earlier)      last day (2701 days later) »