English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user116848

12:00 AM

@MattЭллен Which is better? (I am talking about 'full stop' or 'period' here) : "I keep reliving that moment. Over and over again" or "I keep reliving that moment, over and over again".

tchrist

Depending on the circumstances, the first is better than the second and the second better than the first.

?Elijah?s/batter/matter/

user116848

@tchrist So what could be the circumstances for that?

tchrist

Different ones.

Another possibility is a dash.

Still a fourth possibility is to omit all intervening punctuation entirely.

These are all slightly different.

user116848

I see. I think you are right, it depends.

Cerberus

Hi.

user116848

12:07 AM

Hi

Cerberus

How is the room?

user116848

Chat room? Okay I guess.

Matt Эллен

Hi.

user116848

Hi

user116848

@JohanLarsson hej :)

user116848

12:14 AM

urbandictionary.com/…

Cerberus

Good.

user116848

Above definition of full stop or period is funny.

Cerberus

How is your night?

user116848

Mine?

Cerberus

Yours, and Matt's.

user116848

12:16 AM

Okay.

Cerberus

I see.

user116848

Yours? How was your day? :)

Cerberus

It was good. I went to Haarlem to a dinner party, and I had tea with friends in Amsterdam after midnight.

user116848

Great!

Cerberus

You?

user116848

12:20 AM

It was okay. Here and there you know. But mostly on the net, browsing and stuff.

tchrist

@Cerberus I thought that the Concorde no longer flew.

user116848

@tchrist They don't?

Cerberus

@Arrowfar That is important. Someone has to do it.

tchrist

@MattЭллен Why does he think I voted to move it?

Cerberus

@tchrist Hmm?

Haarlem is only 15 minutes by train from the central station.

tchrist

12:22 AM

To New Amsterdam, sure. But to Old it a Concorde takes.

Cerberus

Nieuw Amsterdam was lost.

tchrist

Foundered.

Cerberus

It was most dreadful.

@tchrist Hey, don't be so negative.

It's still there.

tchrist

Then apparently what was lost has been found, not foundered.

Cerberus

It was lost to a monarchy.

You know as well I do that republics don't like losing territories any more than kingdoms.

tchrist

12:25 AM

I should not have imagined Dutch had a cognate to founder, coming as it did to us from Ranavania.

Cerberus

Founder, as in sink?

Matt Эллен

@tchrist because that's what the close reason says

sorry, it's the system

tchrist

@Cerberus Oh aye.

@MattЭллен There was just something on metameta about that.

 Tall ships and tall kings
        three times three.
 What brought they from the foundered land
        over the flowing sea?
 Seven stars and seven stones
        and one white tree.

@MattЭллен It is a very weird question. If he is actually a native speaker, I wonder whether he is not extremely young. How is X? is utterly commonplace for all manner of things.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist indeed

tchrist

> founder /ˈfaʊndə(r)/, v.

Etymology: a. OFr. fondrer to plunge to the bottom, submerge; also intr. to collapse, fall in ruins :– f. L. fundus bottom.
The simple vb. fondrer appears to be rare in OFr.; the compounds esfondrer, enfondrer, are common, and occur in most of the senses below; cf. afounder, enfounder, of which founder in some uses may be an aphetic form. The r in the OFr. vb. is variously accounted for: see Hatz.-Darm. s.v. effondrer, Körting Lat.-Rom.-Wb. s. vv. exfundulare, infundulare; a popular Lat. type *fundorāre may have existed, f. fundora (see Du Cange) pl. of fundus ne…

@Cerb What’s the difference between popular Latin and vulgar Latin?

0

A: "Improviser" or "improvisor"?

I would say that, by however slim the margin, following the forms of the root language is preferable. But in no way would it be an error, in normal conversation, to modify it to suit the language in which it is being used. There might be rea

Mens rea?

Cerberus

12:34 AM

@tchrist I knew what that was about from the first line.

@tchrist Nothing.

tchrist

Oh boy, let’s play Name That Tune! :)

Cerberus

Populus and vulgus are in this context the same thing.

tchrist

That’s what I was thinking.

Cerberus

But vulgus is a strange noun.

tchrist

Well, yes.

Cerberus

12:35 AM

Strangely declined.

tchrist

Per my recollection, it doesn’t occur in the plural.

And its gender is dodgy.

Cerberus

Yes, I do not believe it does.

is it ever masculine?

> (masc., Att., Sisenn., and Varr. ap. Non. p. 230, 27 sq.; Verg. A. 2, 99; Phaedr. 4, 14; Liv. 6, 34, 5; 24, 32, 1; Lucr. 2, 920 et saep.)

tchrist

I thought it was always neuter, personally, but I read somewhere that some writers used it in the masculine. Thing is, you have to actually trace that to which writers when to make any sense of it.

Cerberus

Hmm so apparently some writers treat it as masculine.

And not just archaic writers.

tchrist

Well, you have to admit that most -us nouns of the second declension are masculine. Not all, of course, but most.

I was thinking that the masculine came later.

And that it was neuter in writers from deeper antiquity. But I do not know that. Just a theory.

Cerberus

12:39 AM

It is normally neuter in the classical period.

tchrist

That would fit my theory that it was subject to a regularization as a 2nd-declension -us noun in the masculine.

Cerberus

> vulgus (volg-), i, n.

tchrist

In the fullness of time.

Cerberus

Some of those masculine writers are very old.

And neuter is standard in classical.

tchrist

Which disproves the theory. Probably.

I said that I thought it was neuter for a long time.

Rather, I for a long time thought it was neuter.

Everyone but everyone always thinks Lorin is a girl because of soft and pretty he is.

Would you believe that his tail is half a foot wide?!

Because the tail-hairs are three inches long each, so when fluffed. . . .

The rest of his body has less crazy-long hair, but nothing like Randy, who looks like he has a crew cut. And is boyish, anyway.

Cerberus

12:45 AM

Half whose foot?

bows

Are they both boys?

tchrist

Of course they are both boys.

Although I had momentary doubt, because I found one or three black hairs on Lorin’s tail.

Cerberus

Why of course?

tchrist

Because a boy kitty can only have orange or black hair, but never both.

Oh, the of course was because I was thinking of cat-color genetics.

It was a silly thing for me to say.

Cerberus

I would not know such things.

tchrist

If you find a boy-kitty with both orange hair and black hair, he is not a normal boy.

The cat-color gene, which is a boolean yes–no thing, is carried on the X-chromosome.

It says “Am I an orange kitty?”

So since a normal boy-kitty can have only a single X-chromosome, he cannot be both orange and black.

A girl kitty of course can easily be both, having to X-chromosomes.

However, all it takes to be a boy in men and cats (all mammals, in fact) is to have a Y-chromosome.

So it’s still a boy if it is an XXY-style boy.

There is a marvelous and fun-to-read short little book about this.

amazon.com/Cats-Are-Not-Peas-Genetics/dp/1568813201

I bet you would find it interesting.

I read it when it first came out, long ago.

Cerberus

1:01 AM

I think I have heard of that title.

tchrist

I love how they groom each other’s face(s?). It’s one of the few spots their own tongues cannot reach.

I’m just muttering random observations based on the current action around me.

Cerberus

And how about their necks?

Or throats.

They can't really reach there either.

tchrist

Yes, the whole head is an issue. They do each other.

Cerberus

Hence the ticks that often remain there.

Cute.

tchrist

Don’t seem to have a tenth so many ticks in Colorado as in Wisconsin, where they were everywhere.

Then again, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, a tick disease, isn’t named for the Great Lakes. :)

But the friend of mine who had it caught it in Georgia as a young boy before he moved to Wisconsin.

He quite nearly perished of it.

Rocky Mountain spotted fever

Rocky Mountain spotted fever is the most lethal and most frequently reported rickettsial illness in the United States. It has been diagnosed throughout the Americas. Some synonyms for Rocky Mountain spotted fever in other countries include “tick typhus,” “Tobia fever” (Colombia), “São Paulo fever” or “febre maculosa” (Brazil), and “fiebre manchada” (Mexico). It is distinct from the viral tick-borne infection, Colorado tick fever. The disease is caused by Rickettsia rickettsii, a species of bacterium that is spread to humans by Dermacentor ticks. Initial signs and symptoms of the disease include...

Manchada means stained, BTW.

Something that happens to fabric when you spill something on it you can’t get out.

I think there is a better English word for that but I cannot remember it right now.

user116848

1:11 AM

So which online dictionary should I use while answering questions on ELU site?

tchrist

And yes, the region of La Mancha means that.

Cerberus

Eww.

tchrist

@Arrowfar I would use ODO if I’d no access to the OED proper.

Cerberus

Is it very dangerous? Is it easy to contract?

tchrist

Yes to the first.

I don’t know anything else.

user116848

1:12 AM

@tchrist This one? ------> oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/sea?q=sea#SEA

tchrist

Like annual rates.

@Arrowfar Yes.

Mortality rate is 30% untreated and 3–5% treated.

I would call that very dangerous, yes.

Cerberus

Quite.

tchrist

> There are only 800 cases of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever reported in the United States per year, and in only about 20 percent can the tick be found.

“Only”.

Twice.

Cerberus

Huh.

No idea what you mean.

tchrist

“Only 800 cases.”

Cerberus

1:16 AM

But are there signals, when you have been bitten? Like the red ring around Lyme's.?

tchrist

“Can be found in only 20%”.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

tchrist

@Cerberus Yeah.

I’m trying to find CDC maps.

cdc.gov/rmsf/symptoms

Found the maps.

cdc.gov/rmsf/stats/index.html

RegDwigнt

So. Um. I'm quite busy drinking, but I do have half a minute to spare, so I might as well ask you, Tom, what that recent "quid pro quo" was all about.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt I wanted to discuss a user in private.

RegDwigнt

1:18 AM

Mkay.

tchrist

I had flagged someone for making chat an uncomfortable place to be. I eventually left for the day.

RegDwigнt

I checked my inbox but the most recent thing in there was about that user from like two weeks ago.

Or perhaps five.

tchrist

No, it was just a little bit back from where I said that.

It’s what invited all those alien mods.

Cerberus

Hello.

RegDwigнt

Oh. Went completely unnoticed by me.

tchrist

1:20 AM

I’ve talked to Kit about it. It is not a new issue, unfortunately.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus Heeeeeelloeee.

Cerberus

What are you drinking?

Stuff.

@tchrist Who was it?

Things.

1:20 AM

And recent political factors in Realpolitik have set it off again.

RegDwigнt

Beverages.

Substances.

Cerberus

How nice.

RegDwigнt

Totally nice.

tchrist

@Cerberus I’m having trouble figuring out to say it subtly. So I will delete this next thing RFSN.

Cerberus

I've been drinking tea since midnight.

@tchrist I'm watching chat...

Ah, he.

Was there anything specific that troubled you?

RegDwigнt

1:22 AM

So anyway, before the half a minute has run out, you can just drop me another message if you will, otherwise I am not sure what options we have, as even a private chat room is not strictly private.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Warming?

Cerberus

Besides the usual political rants.

tchrist

It didn’t have to be private from moderators, just from him.

I don’t like talking about people in public, especially in front of their face.

The problem has fixed itself, for the nonce.

RegDwigнt

K. Then I'll create a private room as time permits, or I suppose so can you as a trusted usr.

tchrist

Thank you for asking.

No, I have a room.

Remember?

RegDwigнt

1:23 AM

Hm.

Cerberus

Can he??

RegDwigнt

I am not remembering many things right now.

tchrist

I can try pinging you from there.

Cerberus

A room that nobody else can see? Surely not?

RegDwigнt

Yeah. I got no invitation to anywhere.

@Cerberus not nobody. He said just that one user.

tchrist

1:24 AM

@Reg Here.

RegDwigнt

As long as that user is not a mod, it wurks.

Cerberus

@tchrist Page not found. I can't see it.

RegDwigнt

Abre los ojos.

tchrist

As it should be. :)

I hope I would never have to talk about a mod.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt So...could I have made a new private room for Tyrant??

RegDwigнt

1:25 AM

@Cerberus of course.

But it wouldn't have been private from Shoggoth.

Cerberus

Oh.

Well, we didn't care about him, did we?

RegDwigнt

The room was private, remember?

Cerberus

Just about the Internets at large.

RegDwigнt

Only members of the faction were ever invited.

Plus MrHen.

Cerberus

But it was only private because you created it.

RegDwigнt

1:26 AM

But then he became a member of the faction.

Not googlable.

As a moderator.

And aedia.

Yes.

But Shog closed it.

RegDwigнt

Froze.

tchrist

1:26 AM

That girl is like all vowel, nearly.

Cerberus

So could I create exactly the same room you did?

RegDwigнt

Anyway people I'm thirsting. Lators.

tchrist

Bye!!!

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt And then Shog would close my room, too?

Bye!

tchrist

Why did he freeze your room?

There are other frozen rooms, like NS’s.

You don’t have to say. I do not mean to pry.

Cerberus

1:28 AM

Because we weren't allowed to have a private room, so he told us.

So I assumed only mods could create such rooms.

So now I don't understand.

tchrist

Private rooms are only for moderator-related activity, not for shooting the shit with moderators in a way other people can’t see.

These things can leak a bit around the edges, but that is the principal purpose.

Cerberus

But I can simply create such a room, then, and do there whatever I want?

tchrist

I do not know, for I have never tried.

Cerberus

You see the issue here?

tchrist

I honestly do not understand anything about room creation and rights.

Cerberus

1:31 AM

Or the apparent discrepancy.

tchrist

SE chat rooms are supposed to be matters of public record.

Like minutes from a board meeting.

There is a loophole, as with board meetings, for “executive sessions”.

Those minutes are not made public, because they have to do with sensitive issues such as personnel issues or salaries or such.

It is the same here.

And if you get caught trying to hide regular business behind the exec-session curtain, you will get in trouble.

Or so I dimly feign to understand things.

There have been scandals about city councils getting caught hiding things in exec-session that they had no business hiding there.

It violates the principles of open government if they do that.

I on very rare occasion exchange private email with certain moderators and SE team members.

But that is super rare.

Here comes a powerful storm.

I lost power momentarily this morning, crashing my non-laptops.

This happens so often that I have Amazon-ordered some more UPSes.

@Cerb Does all that make any sense, or enough?

Cerberus

@tchrist We have no executive power, and we are not elected.

I was never told I couldn't create a private room for whatever reason.

I exchange private e-mail with moderators whenever I please.

We moved our Tyrant chat (which included several moderators) to a different website and chatted happily on there.

@tchrist Wow.

tchrist

1:46 AM

I don’t know that a non-mod can make a private room.

Nor that we cannot.

Cerberus

Perhaps all the money people would save on UPS's could be used to get rid of those poles...

@tchrist I assumed we couldn't, because we are not government in any way. But Reg suggested that we could.

tchrist

Hail. Thunder.

Lightning.

Flickering.

Scared kitties.

Cerberus

The only time we have a power outage is when workmen damage the cable by digging in the wrong place, which happens almost never.

And it's always very local.

Poor kitties!

tchrist

I lose power momentarily probably a couple of dozen times annually, and for more than two or three minutes at least a half-dozen times.

I am always having to reset the clocks on the oven and the microwave. Other clocks now have either battery backup or else auto-sync with that special radio-wave signal.

5

Q: Why are there private chat options?

If you use the "Create chat room with user" feature. Why are there no options to make the chat private, but there are options to add read only users for rooms that are private?

Cerberus

Hmm.

I think it's about once a year here.

Maybe some years twice.

tchrist

1:54 AM

5

A: How to change chat room access?

Your rooms must be publicly readable. Private rooms are only used by moderators for specific purposes. If you have 1000 reputation you can make your chat room publicly read-only by enabling the "gallery" setting in the access tab for that chat room.

Cerberus

Last year, it was out for 5 hours one day. Which netted me €70.

Or maybe it was less than 5 hours.

tchrist

How the hell??

Money how?

Cerberus

They have to pay you if power goes out for longer than...some prescribed time.

I actually think it's €35 an hour.

tchrist

Acts of God are not subject to contractual responsibility.

Cerberus

No God!

tchrist

1:56 AM

In fact, it is a specific part of common law.

Cerberus

Always workmen.

tchrist

“Acts of God” is a term of art in the legal profession.

It does not mean parting the Red Sea.

It has a specific legal meaning.

Act of God

An act of God is a legal term for events outside human control, such as sudden natural disasters, for which no one can be held responsible. == Contract law == In the law of contracts, an act of God may be interpreted as an implied defence under the rule of impossibility or impracticability. If so, the promise is discharged because of unforeseen occurrences, which were unavoidable and would result in insurmountable delay, expense, or other material breach. An example scenario could assume that an opera singer and a concert hall have a contract. The singer promises to appear and perform at a certain...

Apparently God acts only in the the English-speaking world — and Argentina??

How odd.

Cerberus

Power outages are not outside of human control here.

We are not religious.

tchrist

This has nothing to do with God.

An Act of God is a force of nature.

Cerberus

Nature is not involved. As I said, workmen.

tchrist

1:59 AM