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12:02 AM
I find it really odd that he used eow instead of þi. Always polite, our nohat!
 
so, what does it say? (for those of us too young to read it)
 
It says you should spend more time with Beowulf.
 
And I said to you, that I will be [steadfast?] and [unswaying?] to Gods justice and to a right world[situation?]. Okay, my Middle English sucks.
I never learned it.
 
Old.
Not Middle.
 
Is it that old?
 
12:10 AM
Not even the Gawain poet is so removed from our day.
 
When again?
 
I don’t know what the right worldlage is.
Beowulf was < 1000.
 
Lage = layer, possibly. German Lage = situation.
 
Quite.
Oh right. The lay of the world.
I'm too polluted with Latinate contaminants.
It’s OE, pretty dang sure.
That’s what I said Whaet!, the opening word of Beowulf.
 
> It has variously been dated to between the 8th and the early 11th centuries.
@tchrist Right, that!
I remember we read Beowulf in a modernised version, in school.
I don't remember much about it, to be honest.
Reading together, as a group, just doesn't work.
It's boring.
By the way, isn't the lay of the land a common expression?
 
12:14 AM
It is.
At least in America.
 
Somehow that's the only thing that comes up when you say lay of the world.
 
In the Commonwealth it tends to be the lie of the land.
 
It must be an archaic idiom.
 
And probably should be here, too.
 
Hmm.
Why?
 
12:16 AM
Because the land just lies there; it doesn’t lay anything, or anyone.
Have you read the Uncleftish Beholding?
 
> 7. a. The way, position, or direction in which something is laid or lies (esp. said of country); disposition or arrangement with respect to something. (Cf. lie n.)
 
Oh fine.
And?
Have you?
 
@tchrist I'm not sure I find that very convincing...
> 1. a. Manner of lying; direction or position in which something lies; direction and amount of slope or inclination. Also fig. the state, position, or aspect (of affairs, etc.). Phr. the lie of the land.
@tchrist Nope.
 
It’s great stuff.
If you can find it in full, you should read it.
> When an uncleft or a bulkbit wins one or more bernstonebits above its own, it takes on a backward lading. When it loses one or more, it takes on a forward lading. Such a mote is called a farer, for that the drag between unlike ladings flits it. When bernstonebits flit by themselves, it may be as a bolt of lightning, a spark off some faststanding chunk, or the everyday flow of bernstoneness through wires.
> Some of the higher samesteads are splitly. That is, when a neitherbit strikes the kernel of one, as for a showdeal ymirstuff-235, it bursts into lesser kernels and free neitherbits; the latter can then split more ymirstuff-235. When this happens, weight shifts into work. It is not much of the whole, but nevertheless it is awesome.
> I eulogize the archons of the Panethnic Numismatic Thesaurus and the Ecumenical Trapeza for the orthodoxy of their axioms, methods and policies, although there is an episode of cacophony of the Trapeza with Hellas. With enthusiasm we dialogue and synagonize at the synods of our didymous Organizations in which polymorphous economic ideas and dogmas are analyzed and synthesized.
 
> Heorot (/ˈheɪərɒt/ HAY-ə-rot), also Herot, is a mead hall described in the Anglo-Saxon epic Beowulf as "the foremost of halls under heaven." It served as a palace for King Hroðgar, ... Modern scholarship sees the village of Lejre, near Roskilde, as the location of Heorot. ... The remains of a Viking hall complex was uncovered southwest of Lejre in 1986-88 by Tom Christensen of the Roskilde Museum. Wood from the foundation was radiocarbon-dated to about 880.
 
12:23 AM
> I apologize for having tyranized you with my hellenic phraseology. In my epilogue, I emphasize my eulogy to the philoxenous autochthons of this cosmopolitan metropolis and my encomium to you, Kyrie, and the stenographers.
Well, gosh.
 
Oops.
 
Here is Middle English sample:
    Siþen þe sege and þe assaut     watz sesed at Troye,
    Þe bor3 brittened and brent     to bronde3 and askez,
    Þe tulk þat þe trammes          of tresoun þer wro3t
    Watz tried for his tricherie,   þe trewest on erþe:
    Hit watz Ennias þe athel,       and his highe kynde,
    Þat siþen depreced prouinces,   and patrounes bicome
    Welne3e of al þe wele           in þe west iles.
    Fro riche Romulus to Rome       ricchis hym swyþe,
    With gret bobbaunce þat bur3e   he biges vpon fyrst,
Which of course means:
    When the siege and the assault had ceased at Troy,
    and the fortress fell in flame to firebrands and ashes,
    the traitor who the contrivance of treason there fashioned
    was tried for his treachery, the most true upon earth--
    it was Æneas the noble and his renowned kindred
    who then laid under them lands, and lords became
    of well-nigh all the wealth in the Western Isles.
    When royal Romulus to Rome his road had taken,
    in great pomp and pride. he peopled it first,
    and named it with his own name that yet now it bears;
Sir Gawain is much harder than Chaucer, for various reasons.
Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote
And bathed every veyne in swich licour,
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan Zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the Ram his halfe cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open eye-
(So priketh hem Nature in hir corages);
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes
This is OE:
    Hwæt! We Gardena     in geardagum,
    þeodcyninga,         þrym gefrunon,
    hu ða æþelingas      ellen fremedon.
    Oft Scyld Scefing    sceaþena þreatum,

    monegum mægþum,      meodosetla ofteah,
    egsode eorlas.       Syððan ærest wearð
    feasceaft funden,    he þæs frofre gebad,
    weox under wolcnum,  weorðmyndum þah,
    oðþæt him æghwylc    þara ymbsittendra
    ofer hronrade        hyran scolde,
    gomban gyldan.       Þæt wæs god cyning!
 
@tchrist Dutch mathematics and physics are more like that.
For starters, mathematics is called wiskunde (wit-can-th).
The equator is called the evenaar (evener).
An angle is a hoek (hook).
A plane is a vlak (flat?).
Etc.
 
I'd heard about that uncleft beholding thing before, that's where I learned that in German "hydrogen" is "water stuff". That was a useful bit of trivia that I whipped out in Austria when my wife was trying to read medical ingredient labels. She thought she'd probably recognize chemical names, but I dissuaded her.
 
Waterstof.
Surely they also had an English version of the label?
Why do I keep getting such low speeds tonight?
 
12:38 AM
@Cerberus not that we saw.
Actually I was surprised: soooo many labels had like 12 languages on them, but not English.
 
(Must be my computer. My phone gives 6 Mb on Wifi (still too low, but you know).)
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Strange. We nearly always have English, certainly on medicines.
 
@Cerberus Maybe it's infected with malware that is hogging your bandwidth
 
No, normally it's fast.
 
@Cerberus well, this was some kind of skin lotion.
@Cerberus it was fast. Until you got the malware.
 
Hmm OK. But still. Stuff like that would have English here, I think.
I don't have malware, you silly.
According to Networx, there is no traffic.
1 KB/s.
When I'm not running Speedtest, that is.
 
12:41 AM
@Cerberus Yeah I thought it was odd. I mean, they didn't have any more room for any other languages on the label, but still, isn't it likely that a random person who doesn't speak German might speak English? It's a very popular language.
 
Yeah.
What other languages did they have?
 
Anyway, whatevs. It's not like our labels here have German on them. Or anything besides French and English
Oh, I dunno. French and italian for sure, maybe spanish, portuguese, ... I'm not sure. Some other languages too that I'm not familiar with. I didn't study them closely.
And reading ingredients is something I do a lot, because of the allergies.
 
Right.
 
OE always seems like German to me. ME, it depends. Some like Chaucer just seems like it’s Shakespearing Shakespeare. Some like Sir Gawain seems like it’s some sort of Dutch changeling come to us by way of France.
 
My toothpaste has a weird mixture of Latinate and English.
 
12:45 AM
Our labels are mostly only in English. Sometimes in French and/or Spanish. More and more also in Spanish.
@Cerberus Because Friday is Download Night? Dunno.
 
It's 2:46 am!
 
Looks like English to me.
 
Aqua?
 
"gum", "extract".
Well.
 
Things like gum looks English.
 
12:47 AM
WTF do they put "aqua" on ingredients
 
aqua mean purified water in the trade.
 
Extract could be any language.
 
Because it is fancy.
 
Ah.
 
it's pretentious
 
12:47 AM
Not Spanish.
 
That explains it.
 
It is a trade name for water.
 
So then my toothpaste has only English, no Dutch.
 
water doesn't need a fucking trade name
ingredient lists should be clear
and unambiguous
and not require a university education to understand
(well, barring chemical names)
 
It would be fun if you had products where the ingredients list would be in a single language that was not English.
 
12:49 AM
well, we have labelling laws here that prevent that
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇: to make things worse they use a mix of iupac and customary chemical names
 
@JourneymanGeek yes, it's annoying
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't know what we have...on medicines, of course Dutch is compulsory.
@JourneymanGeek Iupac?
 
but "aqua" for "purified water"? please. Just call it water. I will assume that its purity is within tolerances.
 
The IUPAC nomenclature of organic chemistry is a systematic method of naming organic chemical compounds as recommended by the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC). Ideally, every possible organic compound should have a name from which an unambiguous structural formula can be created. For ordinary communication, to spare a tedious description, the official IUPAC naming recommendations are not always followed in practice, except when it is necessary to give a concise definition to a compound, or when the IUPAC name is simpler (e.g. ethanol instead of ethyl alcohol). Othe...
With an IUPAC name any high school chem student can read the name, and work out the chemical structure
 
12:51 AM
Ah OK.
If those were bytes, I'd be more than happy.
Frankly my official upload speed is only 1 Mb anyway.
But my download speed is 20 Mb.
/s
 
oh crap. I just sneezed all over the screen, and somehow managed to strain a muscle in my throat I never knew existed.
 
Oh, dear.
Breathe. Drink water.
I have to reboot, see whether my computer will be faster then.
 
Ah, it's not just being pretentious. It's an international standard for cosmetics labelling. Like Cerb said. all the ingredients need to be in one language. Only nobody understands it.
The International Nomenclature of Cosmetic Ingredients, abbreviated INCI, is a system of names for waxes, oils, pigments, chemicals, and other ingredients of soaps, cosmetics, and the like, based on scientific names and other Latin and English words. INCI names often differ greatly from systematic chemical nomenclature or from more common trivial names. Table of common names Here is a table of a several common names and their corresponding INCI names. {|class="wikitable sortable" ! Common name !INCI name |----- | Purified water || Water (Aqua) |----- | Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (from coco...
I do not understand what fucked up thinking comes to the conclusion that using uncommon words on packaging is somehow better for the customer. It's not like they aren't already making different packaging for every linguistic region anyway!
 
` @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇: but.. water
who the hell would be allergic to water?
 
@JourneymanGeek That isn't the point. The point is that an ingredient list has very clear purposes, and obfuscating the ingredients does not serve that purpose. Claiming that writing "aqua" on the label makes it easier for Germans or Dutch or Spanish to come to Canada and read a label is stupid. The ingredients should be in English.
 
12:59 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇: 'The cosmetic regulation laws are enforceable for important consumer safety. For example, the ingredients are listed on the ingredient declaration for the purchaser to reduce the risk of an allergic reaction to an ingredient the user has had an allergy to before. '
And I agree there
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not for all products, perhaps.
It was my modem.
After a restart, speed improved a lot both on my phone and on my puter.
This is sort of normal, though sometimes I get up to 14 Mb down.
Now my phone gets higher speeds than my PC, somehow: it gets 11 Mb / 1 Mb.
Oh, well.
I should ask for a new modem.
Or reset it.
What do you think?
 
new modem probably can't hurt
 
1:25 AM
@JourneymanGeek Having standard names for standard things is one thing. But using an uncommon word (or foreign word) for something is asinine. Don't create a new standard that ensures that "peanuts" is written "groundnuts" on every label: just write peanuts. The Germans can write "erdnusse".
 
Oh, I'm agreeing with you
/me does wonder if we can have e number style allergy codes
 
I'm not a fan of the e-numbers
 
'this product contains eggs, tree nuts and groundnuts. People with allergies type 102,104,106 should avoid the product'
 
the e-numbers require training
 
Alone? Not really. I actually have a reference list since I'm vegitarian
in addition to proper english, its useful
 
1:33 AM
yeah, more info can't hurt. but plain language is usually clearest.
gotta run.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:54 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Right, that's what I was thinking. I'll badger my provider about it.
 
 
3 hours later…
5:30 AM
@Cerberus smells like updog in here :)
 
@JosephWeissman Hi!
I am up indeed!
If that's what you meant.
Rebooting modem usually works (eventually).
 
I think you're supposed to say "what's updog", though it's probably the lamest joke ever :D
 
Ohhh.
Of course.
Rap speak.
 
Precisely.
 
mawpaw
(That's doggish for facepalm.)
 
5:33 AM
Feel like a quick map or two? Or is it getting pretty late at your end?
 
I always fancy a quickie!
I'll go to bed afterwards.
Do you have one?
 
I don't offhand. And google earth wants to download a plugin -- would be a few minutes.
Happy to take a raincheck on it.
 
I'll go first then.
No idea how hard this is for you.
 
Hmmmm...
Pakistan/India region would be a very blind guess.
If not anywhere close I may need a hint :)
 
Nope.
Hehe.
 
5:38 AM
Alaska/Canada would be another thought?
 
The coasts were to some degree colonised around the 7th century BC and later, I think.
By a literate people.
Before that time, I'm almost certain there was no literacy in the area.
 
Iceland/Greenland somewhere?
 
Nope.
Does this help at all?
 
Totally undeveloped/uninhabited before 7c, or just not by a literate people?
 
I think there were no cities at all, but various kinds of nomads.
 
5:41 AM
So it's nowhere near the middle east, then.
 
But the coast in the lower centre had been more cultured for many centuries.
@JosephWeissman Well, what's near...
Culture came from the south here.
This is just out of view.
To the south-west of the original map.
The south-east.
 
Turkey/Ukraine?
 
Can you fit the pieces together.
@JosephWeissman Ding!
 
Hurray!
 
The Black Sea.
The Crimea is the peninsula up north.
 
5:45 AM
Not sure how hard/easy.
 
(By the way, is there a reason you used Google Earth and not Google Maps?)
@JosephWeissman Ohh hmm.
Let me see.
 
(Not sure how to get Maps to give me a label-less image.)
 
It's all greyed-out and won't let me click :(
 
Click on Satellite first?
 
5:47 AM
Ah!
 
@JosephWeissman I really don't recognise it. If I had to guess, I would guess somewhere in North America, because that would mean something to you...so the west coast...perhaps San Francisco?
 
@Cerberus Ding! That's Fog City, alright :)
 
Haha wow.
That was a totally random guess.
I knew SF had a bay.
It looked very, very vaguely familiar.
 
I miss this.
 
SF or the Game?
 
5:51 AM
That huge black spot is wild.
 
It's a lake. Should be the same colour as the sea.
But Google colours the sea differently in order to show elevation.
That is completely artificial, while the lake is what the satellite actually sees.
 
I'd say Baja Cali, except it doesn't look quite right
Oh, it's the little thing (isthmus?) connecting the Americas!
 
Ding!
The old volcanoes in the lake.
 
Ohh I know!
Lake Victoria!
It's getting smaller and smaller too, like many lakes these days.
 
5:55 AM
Ding!
so Jeff Atwood is in Root Access getting live-support for his home network :)
 
Oh, I feel like we've done this one before. But I can't remember.
 
@JosephWeissman Oh, haha. Don't hesistate to assist him...
@JosephWeissman Hmm I was afraid of that.
The island was named after my fellow countryman.
Around 1700 or so.
 
Tasmania?
 
Ding!
 
5:58 AM
So there was a Good Sir Tasman?
 
I don't know how good he was...
I only know he gave his name to the Tasmania.
I think Cook came after him and "discovered" New Zealand.
 
Ah, yes.
 
Or perhaps it had already been named by its Dutch name before him? I don't know.
 
It's always been kind of strange to me that it took so long for the West to find the Americas/Australia. Given that they've been continuously populated for millenia (if by indigenous tribes.)
 
Yeah, well...it is probably a combination of backward technology and lack of interest.
 
6:01 AM
One more?
 
I mean, why wasn't Australia colonised by people from Indonesia?
Bring it on!
 
Right. I mean, I'm guessing there were trade routes, right? They're not too far apart...
Oh, that's the old one :)
 
Haha.
 
I'm guessing this will be pretty easy, but it's hard to say...
 
@JosephWeissman Probably...but perhaps there wasn't that much to get from Australia at the time? I think Europeans went everywhere around the world as soon as their naval technology let them.
England!
I see London!
 
6:03 AM
@Cerberus Ding!
 
I recognised the coastline first.
 
The Thames has such a beautiful structure...
 
Yeah it's nice and curly.
 
Is that for me? :D
 
It could be.
If you let it.
 
6:06 AM
It's a good one...
 
Is it?
I'm not sure whether I could recognise it.
I cut off the good part.
 
May be stumped here.
 
You know the name of the island.
It's oblong.
 
I might guess Timor/PNG/Singapore area, but it doesn't look quite right.
 
Nope.
This area too was colonised by us.
But we mainly colonised a smaller island, just off the map, to the west.
Alas, we had to cede it to those damn Brits.
In the 17th century.
 
6:12 AM
Hmmm...
 
But any Dutch families grew to prominence and still live there.
Or remained prominent.
I really can't give you any direct hints.
 
Maybe more context? Unless it would totally give it away.
 
I have skirted along the abyss of giving it away already.
I have literally named the island already.
A few lines back.
With an added letter to the second part of its name.
And the two parts are not in the same line.
Oh, you know this island.
 
"Oblonge Brit Island"
 
Yes!
 
6:15 AM
hurray!
 
Now remove a few letters.
Haha.
This is so funny to watch.
11 mins ago, by Cerberus
user image
@JosephWeissman Remove 7 letters.
Keep the remaining letters in the same order.
 
From my silly guess??
 
Yes!
Now we're defying the boundaries of the genre. Or exploring, as we prefer to call it.
3 mins ago, by Joseph Weissman
"Oblonge Brit Island"
My, isn't this an Oblong Island.
So very oblong.
 
It's not Long Island?
 
Ding!!
 
6:18 AM
Awww.
 
Haha.
 
I knew I recognized it.
 
You guessed but rejected it long ago, didn't you?
 
I wish I could say I had.
 
@Mahnax Then you get one third of the quarter point Joseph won.
 
6:19 AM
 
Aww.
I didn't mean to.
 
@Cerberus Wow, that's generous of you.
 
@Mahnax You do know how copper wire was invented?
 
@Cerberus Howzat?
Splitting pennies?
 
Two Dutchmen fighting over a cent.
So yeah.
 
6:21 AM
I figured it would be something silly like that.
 
Hehe.
Tip: don't mention this during your history or physics lessons.
 
I shan't.
 
Great.
 
My history teacher would have my head.
 
Now I shall disappear.
Oh, that must suck if you haven't any spares.
 
6:22 AM
Me too, I'm tired. Night all.
@Cerberus Oh, stop bragging, you.
 
Have fun with your third of a quarter-point!
 
@Cerberus good night, dear sir.
 
Twelfth-point.
 
@JosephWeissman Good night! 'Twas a pleasure, as always.
 
disappears
 
6:23 AM
@Mahnax Ohhh you must be a math genius.
 
evaporates
 
evanesces
 
6:42 AM
HELO
@Cerberus When did you receive the title of Sir?
2
 
user19161
7:19 AM
So after JA comments, the ELL proposal is reopened?
 
user19161
Now we will all experience a drop in rep as questions are migrated there! Be prepared!
 
user19161
Buongiorno @carlo!
 
Buongiorno, Jasper. I think it is night where you live.
So it would be better if I say you, buonanotte.
@DavidWallace where are you? In the last days I do not have seen you in chat: are you protesting against the fact ELL is being reopened?
 
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