Islam and Judaism dialogue

Ali

3:38 AM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Hi

Do you live in brooklyn/?'

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

yes why

Ali

@SethJ will breaking the other laws apart from the 7 make you liable to hell in Judaism?

I very well know jews have 613 commandments. But apart from the 7 laws if one breaks the remaining then they wont goto hellfire. Islam is a superset of the 613 commandments, by following Islam you would follow most of the 613 laws in its true essence

Infact I read a paper on the comparison between Islam and the 613 mitzovahs it has a significant similarity, only thing is that in islam there is no explicit codification of the number of laws, there are matching hadith for most of the 613 mitzovahs

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@Ali each law has different consquences. islam doesnt have all the laws. also the laws that he copied from judaism are not same laws anyway. they are much lenient like the hadith says. the jews came to mohammed asking bout the laws and he said lenient laws and the jews didnt follow him because he made everything lenient

Ali

3:56 AM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob You are right Islam did not copy , but evolved , even moses wont know what Judaism means , but Moses knows what is Islam, it is his religion and the religion name itself explains its feature . Allah is perfect but his subjects are not perfect. Hence according to the kind of nation and its capability he sends the message. Islam as evolved during the time of prophet muhammad pbuh is now the final and binding message, the religion which started with Adam got completed with its final mesg

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@Ali good morning america

Ali

The great Hungarian-Jewish scholar of Islam, Ignaz Goldziher, wrote that when he prayed as a Muslim in a mosque in Cairo, never in his life was he more devout. I can say that never in my life have I felt more devotion to the faith of Islam, to Quran al-qerim, to the ummah of the blessed Prophet Muhammad aleyhisalem than when I work with, speak with, and assist Jews.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

yes its a problem :(

Ali

plus.google.com/111676727468956560448/about?gl=in&hl=en @MoriDoweedhYaAgob do you know this place?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

yes i do actually

Ali

4:16 AM

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Two men, a Muslim and a Jew, abused each other. The Muslim said, "By Him Who gave superiority to Muhammad over all the people." On that, the Jew said, "By Him Who gave superiority to Moses over all the people." The Muslim became furious at that and slapped the Jew in the face. The Jew went to Allah's Messenger () and informed him of what had happened between him and the Muslim. Allah's Apostle said, "Don't give me superiority over Moses, for the people will fall unconscious on the Day of Resurrection and I will be the first to gain consciousness, and behold ! Moses wil…

pbuh

sunnah.com/bukhari/81#106

:9675786 I read you are a reform , so I thought of sharing this :rabbimaller.com/judaism-and-islam/…

@Monica Cellio I read you are a reform , so I thought of sharing this :rabbimaller.com/judaism-and-islam/…

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@Ali we all know Mosha Rabbeinu is highest prophet

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob There is no need for a comparison among the prophets which bring laws.“Prophets are half-brothers in faith, having different mothers. Their religion is, however, one” (Muslim, book #030, Hadith #5836

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@Ali however Mosha Rabbeinu is highest prophet :)

Ali

4:31 AM

Need to leave, all the best

Seth J

5:47 AM

@Ali Categorically rejecting the other 606 commandments and refusing to follow them is heresy. One forfeits his share in the World to Come if one does so (=eternal damnation in the parlance of other religions).

@Ali Shocker. You realize where the Hadith come from, right?

Ali

6:28 AM

@SethJ Ya Islam is a superset of the 613 commandments, by following Islam you would follow most of the 613 laws in its true essence. And yes I re verified the 613 commandments and I would say that many Muslims follow more of your 613 commandments then the Jews themselves.

Ali

9:03 AM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Both Moses and Muhammad (p) were both religious leaders and statesmen. Both were warriors. Both had families and progeny. Both had immigration (the Exodus and the Hijrah, respectively). Both had new legislation. Both had both moral and physical victory over enemies. And the list goes on. May Allāh's peace and blessings be upon them both and all the prophets.

Ali

9:22 AM

Baba Mezia 59b

Can someone rrefer me to where I can find above?

Seth J

12:00 PM

@Ali you wear Tzitzith? Sit in Sukkah? Eat Matzah? Observe Niddah/Mikvah?

Ali

@SethJ I already said not all but most of it , The Mikwah for ex can also be seen as an Islamic Ghusl(Bath)

Most of the rituals having to do with the biblical Israel were meant for only that period of time. Did the tanach say there are exactly 613.00 mitzovah. Allah never gave this number even to the bni israel , this number is your invention

It would be equally odd and strange exercise to number and enumerate the Islamic rules.

It would be good if rabbis would have rather preserved the sayings of Moses in an unbroken chain of narration PER SAYING OF MOSES.

@SethJ More ever I doubt if any Jew can claim that he follows ALL of the 613 cmds

I just found that even the prominent Rabbis differed that what to count in 613 cmds, many of them discarded it as innovation(Bidah\Heresy)here:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments#Dissent_and_difficulties

Also there are many mitzovahs which just cannot be followed! as this is no more the biblical Israel:

The Kohanim must eat the sacrificial meat in the Temple — Ex. 29:33

Canaanite slaves must work forever unless injured in one of their limbs — Lev. 25:46
Not to extradite a slave who fled to (Biblical) Israel — Deut. 23:16

To offer two lambs every day — Num. 28:3

Seth J

12:39 PM

@Ali you keep raising a straw man. You are debating a warped version of what you think Judaism is and then saying Islam is better and a safer choice because in that warped version of Judaism Islam is not heresy. But newsflash: in the real world, with real Judaism, for a real Jew to practice the religion of Muhammad is heresy.

Ali

The reasom most Frum or orthadox Jews dont become Muslim is because of
ignorance, prejudice and an active desire to disbeleive in Islam which unfortunately exposes them to high risk of loosing salavation

@SethJ So if i break \ discard \ stop following one of the mitzovahs then it can become heresy right?

Seth J

1:42 PM

@Ali No. That is sinning. Heresy and sinning are not the same thing. Deliberately sinning out of spite is still sinning, not heresy. Deliberately sinning because you believe you have a better idea than following the Mitzvoth is heresy. Unfortunate inability to perform certain Mitzvoth, is neither, although it may require introspection to ascertain a reason for one's circumstance and potential to overcome it (cont.)

@Ali (cont) For example, if it rains on Sukkoth and one is unable to fulfill the command to sit in a Sukkah, it may be a sign that G-d is displeased and does not wish to grant the community the opportunity to fulfill His commandment.

(But that's an example, not a rule.)

(I brought that up because I believe you were leading down a path of accusing all Jews of being heretics for failing to fulfill a number of commandments. It's another straw man.)

Daniel

3:52 PM

@Ali According to Judaism, you lose salvation if you do convert to Islam

Ali

5:03 PM

5 hours ago, by Ali

@SethJ More ever I doubt if any Jew can claim that he follows ALL of the 613 cmds

@Daniel No you dont , rambam says No as a Jew who converts to Islam is atmost epikorus

@SethJ Wrapped version , is it mine? there are many wrapped versions like orthodox, chabad , messianic, kariaites etc which is the real Jew you are talking about?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@ali an apikorus has no share in the world to come. An apikorus is a heretic of a different level. Also rambam said that message to Jews who were being forced into islam. Those who join willingly are apostates

Daniel

11 hours ago, by Seth J

@Ali Categorically rejecting the other 606 commandments and refusing to follow them is heresy. One forfeits his share in the World to Come if one does so (=eternal damnation in the parlance of other religions).

Ali

Most of the rituals having to do with the biblical Israel were meant for only that period of time. Did the tanach say there are exactly 613.00 mitzovah. Allah never gave this number even to the bni israel , this number is your invention
It would be equally odd and strange exercise to number and enumerate the Islamic rules.
It would be good if rabbis would have rather preserved the sayings of Moses in an unbroken chain of narration PER SAYING OF MOSES.
@SethJ More ever I doubt if any Jew can claim that he follows ALL of the 613 cmds

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@ali go to sleep you seem tired

Daniel

@Ali Some of the 613 we cannot do anymore, that is true

But others we can

Like keeping kosher

Among others

Eating in a sukah

Ali

5:09 PM

I just found that even the prominent Rabbis differed that what to count in 613 cmds, many of them discarded it as innovation(Bidah\Heresy)

Daniel

@Ali So what? Whether there are exactly 613 or what they are is irreleavant to this discussion

There are halachot that are required according to the Torah

that Islam does not have

Eating matzah on passover

Eating in a sukah during sukkot

Tzitzit

All things that SethJ mentioned already

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Mazuzo

Ali

I never said Islam has all mitzovas , but what i say that it has MOST and the essence of all.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Tafillin

Daniel

@Ali I highly doubt that it has most

And how do you know what the essence of them is?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

5:13 PM

@Ali I highly doubt it even has some essence

Ali

The Kohanim must eat the sacrificial meat in the Temple — Ex. 29:33
Canaanite slaves must work forever unless injured in one of their limbs — Lev. 25:46
Not to extradite a slave who fled to (Biblical) Israel — Deut. 23:16
To offer two lambs every day — Num. 28:3

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

It only copied n made lenient the laws

Ali

Do YOU follow the above?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Yes I do

Ali

you offer two lambs every day?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

5:14 PM

I follow the law. I can't perform it but I still follow it

Ali

16 secs ago, by MoriDoweedhYaAgob

I follow the law. I can't perform it but I still follow it

that deserves a special highlight

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

...

Daniel

@Ali It is impossible to do those things now

We have no temple

We don't violate the law by not offering two sheep when we have no way of doing it

Ali

@Daniel But you need to follow all the commandments right?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Following n performing is 2 different things

Daniel

5:16 PM

@Ali Some of the commandments only apply in certain places or times

For example, many of the agricultural laws only apply in Israel

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Your logic is really bad

Daniel

That doesn't mean that we are violating the law by not observing shemita outside of the Land of Israel

It just means that the law doesn't apply there

Ali

@Daniel Proof?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Ask rabbi google

Ali

Biblical Israel does not exist

And would never

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

5:17 PM

You only google what you want not what you need to know like the basics

@ali Quran says Jews will be brought back to Israel by Allah

Daniel

@Ali What do you mean?

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob No It says they will be gathered in one place to be dealt with

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

No it says Israel

Go learn

It also says Israel is jewish land

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob No it says Bani Israel. Bani Israel are isralietes

not jews

Daniel

@Ali "And the Lord spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai saying: Speak to the children of Israel and say to them: When you shall come into the land which I give you, then the land shall rest a Shabbaton unto the Lord. Six years you shall seed your field and six years you shall prune your vineyard and gather in the produce. But on the seventh year it shall be a Shabbaton of holy rest for the land"

There's proof that it applies in the land of Israel only

That's even straight from the Torah so you can't even give any of your nonsense about the rabbis making stuff out

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

5:22 PM

@ali banei Yisroel are Jews......

Daniel

@Ali It's the same thing

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Jews is a relatively recent term

@Daniel No way

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

......

Ali

Bani Israel has 12 tribes

Daniel

@Ali Ok, I'll humor you. What's the difference, according to you?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

5:23 PM

Your logic is so bad that its sad to even talk to you

Daniel

@Ali yep

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob You say nothing but just whine and rant

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

I won't say anything until you go learn basics

You know 0

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I know my basics

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

But talk n talk n talk out if your behind

You don't know your basics I am telling you

I know more than you will ever know bout judaism

I am telling you now that you don't know anything

Daniel

5:26 PM

@Ali I'm still waiting for an answer on this

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Now stop twisting my holy texts n teachings to your devious understanding

You want to learn then don't argue n just open your ears n listen

Ali

Bani Israel is 12 tribes and I dont know further

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

If you want to argue without knowing basics then you can go fly a kite

Daniel

@Ali What does that have to do with anything?

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I wont argue with you nor talk , let daniel talk is it OK?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

5:28 PM

@daniel can do what he wants but I advised him before to stop talking to you because you know nothing. All you do is go in circles with your nonsense ideas

Ali

@Daniel I would say the tribes are lost

Daniel

@Ali Again, so what?

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Could you please stop whining , may I know what is your age?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

12

Ali

please dont behave like a child here even if you are

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

5:30 PM

Ok grandpa Ty for the suggestion

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Thanks son

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Astagfurallah

Ali

Alhamdulillah

please dont interfere in our discussion.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

la hawla wala quwwata illa billah

Everything you say

Ali

Alhamdulillah

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I like for you to recite this phrase throughout , it is a weighty supplication:

There is no strength no power except ALLAH

the most high

It increases our patience\ sabr Alhamdulillah

Seth J

5:36 PM

Straw man

A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position. This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues. Origin As a fallacy, the ident...

Ali

11 mins ago, by MoriDoweedhYaAgob

I know more than you will ever know bout judaism

Straw man

A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position. This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues. Origin As a fallacy, the ident...

These days its a very easy excuse to label any argument as strawman

I have studied the 100+ cognitive biases too

Seth J

@Ali It's only easy if you make it easy.

Ali

I say the person \ group who labelled a religion "Judaism" suffered from a cognitive bias

Daniel

@Ali Why are you so obsessed with the name "Judaism"?

Ali

God never named his religion Judaism or Yahoo di

@Daniel I am not, You people are

Daniel

5:41 PM

@Ali Explain to us why that makes the slightest difference

Ali

as you keep on saying Jews this , Jews that....

Daniel

@Ali We can call ourselves Israelites if you want, but Jew is just the name we use now

Ali

Why use the cognitive bias ridden term "Jews"

Daniel

@Ali What cognitive bias?

Ali

@Daniel Than I would agree to most of your points

But you then have to prove that you are bani israel

Daniel

5:43 PM

@Ali Ok, in that case, go back through all of the discussions we've had and substitute the word Israelite for the word Jew

But know that we are talking about modern day people

@Ali What are you talking about?

Ali

And bani israel are very few people now , only the samaritans can claim to be bani isrrael

Daniel

@Ali What are you basing that outrageous claim on?

Ali

they were the ones who remained in israel , the zionists invaded israel

Samaritans

:For the charity, see Samaritans (charity). For other uses, see Samaritan (disambiguation). The Samaritans ( Shomronim, as-Sāmariyyūn) are an ethnoreligious group of the Levant, descended from ancient Semitic inhabitants of the region. Religiously the Samaritans are adherents of Samaritanism, an Abrahamic religion closely related to Judaism. Based on the Samaritan Torah, Samaritans assert their worship is the true religion of the ancient Israelites prior to the Babylonian Exile, preserved by those who remained in the Land of Israel, as opposed to Judaism, which they assert is a related b...

Daniel

@Ali Who cares where they lived?

And what about the Jews who live outside of Israel?

Ali

Just read the first para

@Daniel AGAIN THE TERM "JEWS"

Did you promise to not use this term "Jew"

?

copying:

Samaritans assert their worship is the true religion of the ancient Israelites prior to the Babylonian Exile, preserved by those who remained in the Land of Israel, as opposed to Judaism, which they assert is a related but altered and amended religion, brought back by those returning from exile.

Daniel

5:47 PM

@Ali No, Jew is just easier for me to type becaues it's what I'm used to

If it helps, substitute Israelite

it's the same thing

Ali

NO ITS NOT AT ALL

Daniel

(not really, but whatever)

There is a distinction, but it has nothing to do with whatever you are arguing about

@Ali Things changed during the Babylonian Exile

nobody disputes that

so what?

You have this weird idea that religion can never change

But why not?

Ali

*The Jews have committed the Symbolic reduction fallacy in coining the term Judaism, It is the biased tendency of the brain to represent a complex object or system by a symbol(Judaism), which loses at
least the nuances and the truth of the matter*

Daniel

@Ali Where is that from?

And why is Judaism any worse than Israelite for that purpose?

or Islam for that matter?

Judaism isn't a symobl

it's a name

Just like when you say that you are a Muslim, that doesn't mean that you have lost the nuances

That's just how language works

Ali

Ya Judaism is a symbolic name used to label a specific group

Daniel

5:52 PM

We need words to describe things

So is Islam

Seth J

►

Daniel

@SethJ I can't see the video

what is it?

Ali

@Daniel Here is the catch Islam is not a symbol but the meaning itself

It exactly conveys what it is

"Judaism" is a label , "Samaritan" is a label

"Karaite" is a label

Daniel

@Ali Really? So if you say to someone who doesn't know anything about your religion, but still knows Arabic that you are Muslim and that will be totally sufficient for them to know that you can't drink alcohol?

Ali

@Daniel A muslim does not become apostate by drinking alcohol

Daniel

5:55 PM

But who cares anyway?

Why does it matter what words we use?

We're not trying to describe our religion by calling it Judaism

Ali

18 secs ago, by Daniel

Why does it matter what words we use?

Daniel

that's just the name it has

You have to learn Judaism in order to understand it. It can't be boiled down to one word

Seth J

@Daniel The West Wing. A short clip "Why are we changing maps?" About 3.5 minutes long. Basically a nerdy group of academics comes to the White House and lobbies for maps to be changed to eliminate bias. Instead of maps focusing on where white people live, they want the world map to be centered differently and inverted so that it is viewed with South as "up" and North as "down" and focuses on the cradle of civilization or Asia instead of Europe and North America.

Daniel

@Ali Why did you just quote my own comment back to me?

Ali

@Daniel To highlight it

Daniel

5:58 PM

@Ali To what end?

Ali

as it represents a gross misunderstanding which the readers need to know

Seth J

@Daniel Basically it's a fine point to make, except that it's entirely irrelevant and wrong. Which is to say that it has more merit than @Ali's "bias" claim.

Daniel

@Ali Which readers?

Seth J

@Daniel The readers.

Daniel

@SethJ Got it. Thanks :)

Ali

6:00 PM

The yodeyans are analyzing the transcripts I know that

Seth J

@Daniel Np. :)

@Ali We're the Yodeyans.

Daniel

@Ali Ok, so would you care to clarify what the misunderstanding is?

Why does it matter what the name of our religion is?

We follow the content, not the name

Ali

5 mins ago, by Ali

18 secs ago, by Daniel

Why does it matter what words we use?

@Daniel We follow both content and the name

Daniel

@Ali Oh ok. Thanks for clarifying

Ali

Tell me why you people cant say the real name of G-d?

Daniel

6:02 PM

@Ali For a variety of reasons, including that we don't know how to pronounce it

Ali

It does not matter what word to use for God?

Daniel

@Ali A name describing a group of people is different from a name of God

Why would Israelite be any better than Jew?

They are both more or less ethnic descriptors

As opposed to Islam which describes the content of the religion

I don't even understand why it matters to you

Maybe you think the name Judaism is a bad name

so what?

What does that have to do with the content

Ali

@Daniel The worst name

Daniel

@Ali Ok. Maybe you think Judaism is the worst possible name anybody could have ever thought of

Ali

Its plain injustice to give a name Judaism

Daniel

6:07 PM

So what?

Ali

or yahoodi

Daniel

What does that have to do with the content?

Ali

The content is Islam

Daniel

@Ali Ok then. I'm already Muslim then

You don't have to convince me anymore

I do submit to God's will

Ali

Sure the content of Moses teaching is Islam so is the teachings of Jesus and finally Muhammad pbuh the completion of Islam

Daniel

6:09 PM

@Ali Ok, well Judaism disagrees on what God's will is

Ali

Alhamdulillah

Daniel

So you can't say Judaism is a bad name because it doesn't describe the religion properly. Actually it should be Islam because the content is submitting to God's will. But wait a minute, this is what the religion Islam teaches. So this is what you should be doing because we already established that you are a Muslim

The content of my religion is not the same as the content of your religion

You can call them both Islam if you want, but that's just confusing

Ali

@Daniel I do call the religion of Moses as Islam so do you

I am Muslim Alhamdulillah

Daniel

@Ali I'm fine with calling that religion Islam. But if we're doing that, then I get to be the one who says that the religion today called Islam is corrupt

Ali

[2.135] And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.

[2.140] Nay! do you say that Ibrahim and Ismail and Yaqoub and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Are you better knowing or Allah? And who is more unjust than he who conceals a testimony that he has from Allah? And Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.

Daniel

6:15 PM

@Ali Nobody says that they were Jews in the same way that Jews today are Jews

They didn't have the Torah

They simply submitted to God's will

But now we have the Torah

And God's will is that we follow the Torah

Ali

[27.76] Surely this Quran declares to the children of Israel most of what they differ in.

[5.70] Certainly We made a covenant with the children of Israel and We sent to them apostles; whenever there came to them an apostle with what that their souls did not desire, some (of them) did they call liars and some they slew.

Daniel

@Ali That's what the Quran says

We disagree

We say they were false prophets

And we bring proof

Ali

The 9th mitzovah of rambam :To listen to the prophet speaking in His Name — Deut. 18:15

43rd says:Not to listen to a false prophet — Deut. 13:4

so what is a false prophet?

goto Deut. 13:2

Daniel

@Ali Rambam himself referred to Mohammad as a false prophet and an insane mane

Ali

15 A prophet will the LORD thy God raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

@Daniel Ya he himself was insane but he did compile a list

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

6:27 PM

Lol

Ali

there are many lists of mitzovahs by different rabbis

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

The Morah navuchim lists the specification of a prophet

I linked you to what to read already ali long to ago

Ali

let us discuss To listen to the prophet speaking in His Name — Deut. 18:15

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

You still singing same song since like half a year a go

Ali

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Could you please stop whining again

I said this I said that you are this you are that....

Daniel

6:29 PM

10

A: Can a prophet add to or change the Torah?

The answer is no. In Yehoshua 23:6, Yehoshua says to the people: וַחֲזַקְתֶּם מְאֹד--לִשְׁמֹר וְלַעֲשׂוֹת, אֵת כָּל-הַכָּתוּב בְּסֵפֶר תּוֹרַת מֹשֶׁה: לְבִלְתִּי סוּר-מִמֶּנּוּ, יָמִין וּשְׂמֹאול Be very strong to protect and do everything that is written in Moshe's Torah. Do not ...

Ali

The Bavli records (Temurah 16a):

[The verse states: "These are the commandments" (Leviticus 27)] These are the commandments and no prophet is allowed to innovate something from now on.
That said, later authorities do have a number of interesting powers (when not claiming to be doing so under direct divine order) including directing Jews to not perform certain mitzvot when done passively (שב ואל תעשה), removing certain principles from the Torah (יש כח ביד חכמים לעקור דבר מן התורה), redistributing wealth at will (הפקר בית דין הפקר), and temporary permission to violate any prohibition except …

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@ali read this

sacred-texts.com/jud/gfp/gfp119.htm

until chapter 48

Ali

copying answers here

The 9th Ani Maamin - which are based on the 13 principals that the Rambam in his Hakdama to his Pirush on Perek Chelek in Mesechtas Sanhedrin mentions as the points of belief a Jew must have - states that there will be no changes to the Torah.

אני מאמין באמונה שלימה שזאת התורה לא תהא מוחלפת ולא תהא תורה אחרת מאת הבורא יתברך שמו.

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=44388&st=&pgnum=117

No muslim says that Islam adds new things to Torah

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Among those who believe in Prophecy, and even among our coreligionists, there are some ignorant people who think as follows: God selects any person He pleases, inspires him with the spirit of Prophecy, and entrusts him with a mission.

It makes no difference whether that person be wise or stupid, old or young; provided he be, to some extent, morally good. For these people have not yet gone so far as to maintain that God might also inspire a wicked person with His spirit. They admit that this is impossible, unless God has previously caused him to improve his ways.

Ali

We accept THE WHOLE TORAH

Daniel

6:33 PM

@Ali So why can't Muslims drink alcohol while the Torah specifically calls for it sometimes?

Ali

The answer to this is in the first answer

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@ali chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9693593#9693593

Ali

That said, later authorities do have a number of interesting powers (when not claiming to be doing so under direct divine order) including directing Jews to not perform certain mitzvot when done passively (שב ואל תעשה), removing certain principles from the Torah (יש כח ביד חכמים לעקור דבר מן התורה), redistributing wealth at will (הפקר בית דין הפקר), and temporary permission to violate any prohibition except Avoda Zara (הוראת שעה).

DoubleAA himself said this

Daniel

@Ali And what does that have to do with wine?

Ali

rEAD IT

Daniel

6:35 PM

@Ali I read it. twice

Ali

removing certain principles from the Torah (יש כח ביד חכמים לעקור דבר מן התורה), redistributing wealth at will (הפקר בית דין הפקר), and temporary permission to violate any prohibition except Avoda Zara (הוראת שעה).

THIS is what doubleaa says

Not me

Daniel

I know he said that

Ali

Nor Islam

Daniel

What is the connection?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@Ali i do not follow later authorities. ;)

Ali

6:37 PM

See I have made very clear. May Allah help us to accept the truth

where ever it is

Alhamdulillah

All praises are to Allah alone

Daniel

@Ali You have not made it very clear

You never once mentioned alchol or wine

After I asked you about it

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@Ali read the chapters i have sent for you are wrong in what you are saying and are still delusional

Daniel

You just copied some unrelated paragraph

Ali

Its very much related only if you want to understand , if you dont want to I cant help Sorry

Daniel

@Ali I do want to understand

But I don't

So could you please try to explain it rather than copying it again?

Ali

6:47 PM

I am done with it Now

Alhamdulillah

Daniel

@Ali Ok then. I'm sorry that you were unable to convince me

Ali

I am not here to convince you

Daniel

@Ali Oh really?

Ali

A person would even like to not get convinced

its perfectly fine albiet with high risk exposure

the Choice is his

Daniel

@Ali Again with the risk exposure

I thought we had totally settled that with the pasta religion

Ali

6:52 PM

Be happy eating pastas

That is best for you O prophet of the sphagetti religion!

need to goto bed now..

Al Ummat مجاهد

@Ali ?

Ali

@AlUmmatمجاهد chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/8758/…

Spaghetti test for Risk Exposure Model

yesterday, 51 minutes total – 162 messages, 5 users, 9 stars

Bookmarked 7 hours ago by Ali

Fi amanallah

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

:/

Ali

:)

Al Ummat مجاهد

where has this discussion gotten to?

Daniel

7:00 PM

@AlUmmatمجاهد Ali was telling me that it makes no sense to not join Islam because the risk of punishment is so high, why shouldn't I just join to mitigate that risk?

Al Ummat مجاهد

hmm... I see

Daniel

So I came up with a ridiculous hypothetical example and told him that not joining spaghetti religion would cause a terrible punishment

And since the risk is so high, why doesn't he join the spaghetti religion

Because, you know, why not? Better to not take the risk

But he seemed to think I was making some kind of analogy, which I wasn't

Al Ummat مجاهد

:)

Daniel

@AlUmmatمجاهد Anyway, I see that you changed your gravatar :)

Al Ummat مجاهد