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111
111
2:38 PM
Anyone on?
Nobody, I guess.
 
CodesInChaos
CodesInChaos
We're all in hiding.
 
111
111
I see, was just checking if you left your computer on.
Anyway, I seek a professional cryptoanalyst/cryptographer.
Are you one?
 
CodesInChaos
CodesInChaos
not really
 
111
111
But your impressive profile doesn't say so.
Anyway, I think you can help me.
I want to know some basic things about cryptography, which if asked on the main site can only lead to downvotes.
Do you have some moments to spare?
 
CodesInChaos
CodesInChaos
Just ask
 
111
111
2:54 PM
Firstly, what exactly is cryptography? I know it is about encrypting data, for instance, ATM cards. But I do not know where one needs to start, and what kind of people are the right ones for it. A little background, I'm 18 and I must pick a path for myself, as all do, starting with a college major.
So, I'm exploring every option.
I took Mathematics, Physics and Chemistry in school.
 
CodesInChaos
CodesInChaos
I mostly learned from reading wikipedia and other random articles online. Though reading a book would probably be faster.
 
111
111
I see. So, did you need some very solid math in doing so?
 
CodesInChaos
CodesInChaos
Depends on what which aspects of cryptography you're interested in.
The parts relevant to programmers don't need much mathematics.
 
111
111
Oh, so it has different aspects too? What parts need mathematics?
 
CodesInChaos
CodesInChaos
The practical parts are mainly about knowing the properties of each kind of algorithm has and how to combine them.
Asymmetric crypto (like RSA or Diffie-Hellman) are based on number theory, understanding groups, finite fields etc.
 
111
111
3:03 PM
As far as I can comprehend, being a complete newb, math is requisite for the construction of algorithms, while computer science for their application. Right?
 
CodesInChaos
CodesInChaos
And if you were to design an AES replacement you'd need to know statistics and quite a bunch of crypto specific math (e.g. differential cryptoanalysis).
But if you're interested in practical crypto, there is almost never a reason to construct your own primitive.
 
111
111
Okay, next. Like, is it any bit like, okay. As a kid, I was very interested in invisible inks, concealment, secret codes. Do you get to do that kind of stuff in cryptography, or is it mere programming and no puzzling skills?
 
CodesInChaos
CodesInChaos
Very little puzzling, since we try to design strong cryptography, which does not exhibit any non-ideal properties.
For example ciphertext is generally designed to be indistinguishable from random data by any means.
 
111
111
I see, so it isn't very much like the kids books on ciphers. :D
Anyway, the last question. Should I go for a major in math or comp sc if I plan to go into cryptography.
 
CodesInChaos
CodesInChaos
3:18 PM
I don't know. I only do crypto as a hobby.
 
111
111
Oh, alright.
Thank you so much for your help, thanks a lot.
 
 
4 hours later…
SEJPM
SEJPM
7:07 PM
@111 well here crypto is usually considered part of it-sec which is usually part of what you do in comp science
if you'd go for maths you probably could still get into crypto though but then a bit more on the esoteric side of things (where you actually use fancy math)
but @Biv is our actual expert on academics and crypto (if yehuda isn't around ;)
 
Biv
Biv
7:31 PM
hum ?
also as far as I'm concerned, I did a major in mathematics (BSc) and MSc in teaching mathematics.
then I got into an Computer Science Engineering School followed by a Master Research.
I lack the mathematical knowledge for whatever the postquatum things are currently being designed (Lattice theory, Multivariate etc.) but in symmetric crypto. I'm okay.
I would say you need a balance between CS and Maths.
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv which is super hard to formally get usually :(
 
Biv
Biv
e.g. you need to understand the underlying layers for a program (what is actually going on in the core. Why 2^64 + 2^64 is not equal to 2^65 on a normal computer.... )
what is super hard ? finding the right balance ?
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv finding study programs which allow for like a 50-50 mix
 
Biv
Biv
:D
shamelessly advertising
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv is that the one you took?
or the one you're being the TA for?
 
Biv
Biv
7:40 PM
nope that is the one though at my university
nah I'm not TA for that one
I'm TA for a 2nd year bachelor course : introduction to crypto.
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv sounds like a lot of head banging on your part :D
 
Biv
Biv
yeah :/
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv symmetric + asymmetric? formal or informal focus?
mandatory course?
 
Biv
Biv
symmetric with game based theory (I hate it)
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv :O
 
Biv
Biv
7:43 PM
I'm doing the course with Joan Daemen
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
why hate it?
 
Biv
Biv
because it is rather abstract
I prefer practical stuff
(like differential cryptanalysis)
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv ahh
@Biv focus on asymptotic bounds? :P
 
Biv
Biv
my coleague will be doing the asymetric part.
nah really light intro I don't think we will go that far
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv including ECC?
that sounds like even more head-banging
 
Biv
Biv
7:45 PM
yup that is his favorite part
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv the head-banging or the ECC? :P
 
Biv
Biv
nah ECC
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv well how you're gonna proof security of modes and stuff w/o game based theory?
 
Biv
Biv
Hi everyone,

Today I have the honor of announcing the lunch talk, and it will be
given by me. I highly advise going to it!

Title: Supersingular-isogeny-based cryptography
Speaker: Joost Renes
Date: Friday, January 13 (!), 2017 at 12:40
Location: HG00.062

After having been proposed in 2014, there has been a lot of attention
recently for cryptography based on hard problems related to isogeny
graphs of supersingular elliptic curves. Many of the techniques used are
related to the ones we rely on in elliptic-curve cryptography, but in
^ from my colleague.
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv damn, had my ITSec lecture at that time slot :/
gotta give me a longer notice period if you want to lure me to you @Biv :D
 
Biv
Biv
7:47 PM
:)
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv is that the curve guy who is around here?
 
Biv
Biv
the curve enthusiast yup
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
1
Q: Can you help me understand this exam answer related to “breaking discrete logarithm over P256”?

RodrigoI'm having trouble understanding the solution to a problem that tries to solve the discrete logarithm problem over an elliptic curve. It goes as follows: Consider an elliptic curve P256 generated by $G$ with size $n$. Consider function $H:P256 \rightarrow \mathbb{Z}_n$ that is used to bui...

elliptic-curves discrete-logarithm
^ would be worth a look for him I guess
especially if he has to help out with formulating the exam
@Biv are you guys gonna use Katz-Lindell as your reference book?
 
Biv
Biv
IDK, I saw it on Joan's desk
and I haven't read it either
but I intend to.
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv :O
 
Biv
Biv
7:51 PM
what ?
I read HAC
and Modern Cryptanalysis
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv a crypto PhD student who didn't read Katz-Lindell!
@Biv Katz-Lindell is a different experience compared to the other two
 
Biv
Biv
You know, I'm not really in crypto... I mean, I'm also in Formal Methods
(and currently on the other side of the ocean ;) )
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv in the US again?
 
Biv
Biv
I'm in Princeton until the 29th
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv duh, I suck, I thought Princeton was in the UK
 
Biv
Biv
7:54 PM
:o
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv any famous crypto people there?
 
Biv
Biv
Andrew Appel
(verification of Sha256)
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv of SHA-256 implementations?
 
Biv
Biv
yup
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
ahh
@Biv and now you two are nerding out about coq?
 
Biv
Biv
7:57 PM
well not only me
but like the 10 persons with me in the corridor :D
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
:O
 
Biv
Biv
what are you surprised ?
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv so many people :O
 
Biv
Biv
Well I'm not surprised. :x Coq is a really nice language to do formal stuff
at the workshop I have been a few days ago, they agreed that having a kind of translator from other languages such as Cryptol, F* etc... to Coq would be nice.
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
8:14 PM
@Biv #ShamelessPlug
 
Biv
Biv
what ??
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv :P
@Biv should I rather have used #ShamelessSelfAd ?
:P
 
Biv
Biv
nah I'm not advertising for Coq.
I'm just stating facts. :p
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
@Biv totally unbiased :P
 
Biv
Biv
Coq is nice... but it also have some drawbacks...
the level of details that you need to go into is ...
well you would love to have a rope sometimes...
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
8:18 PM
@Biv don't let @biv near rope stores... noted.
 
Biv
Biv
Too late I got ropes at home...
 
SEJPM
SEJPM
:O
 
Biv
Biv
hum... let's just for get that...
 

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