English Language Learners

infinitesimal

1:48 AM

Enjoying the game so far @DamkerngT.?

infinitesimal

2:27 AM

Defence wins championships

Wins

Championships

Can this defence hold on to win this championship?

infinitesimal

2:48 AM

DEFENCE!!!

infinitesimal

3:46 AM

The first dynasty of the new millennium but with a familiar theme

Hanaa

6:45 AM

Hi!

Freddy

@Hanaa hello :-)

Damkerng T.

7:07 AM

@infinitesimal What a game! I have only one question (for Seattle): What made you call for a throw on the first yard that down!? -- sobbing

Hi, everyone!

Freddy

@DamkerngT. Hello

Man_From_India

7:50 AM

hello everyone!!

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Hello!

Man_From_India

good afternoon @DamkerngT.

how is the day?

Damkerng T.

8:07 AM

@Man_From_India A little busy. (Sorry for the delay.)

A few things didn't go well as planned.

(Hey, I just used as!)

Man_From_India

Oh :( sorry to hear that...take your time...we can talk later...and never mind about the delay :-)

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

Man_From_India

u welcome :-)

infinitesimal

10:29 AM

The twitter reactions to the Superbowl are fantastic
-2nd and goal from the 1 yd line -1 timeout and BEASTMODE IN THE BACKFIELD... I would not have throw that ball to Jerry Rice! #fail
U have a running back named beast mode n u line up in shotgun formation n throw the ball on 1 yr line...the real MVP IS SEATTLE OC
Seahawks with the worst offensive call in #SuperBowl history. Why didnt you just run #BeastMode
If I were GM of the Seahawks, I'd be happy though: it makes their QB quite a lot cheaper that he blew the biggest game at the 1 yard line.

Damkerng T.

LOL

I don't know what he had in mind, really. :-)

Just one yard, two more downs, two more TOs, 20 secs. What the heck!

Hanaa

10:48 AM

Hi

I made a big mistake when was speaking with my teacher.

Damkerng T.

When you were speaking with your teacher? What was it?

Hanaa

I said : sir, tomorrow we have three quizes

Damkerng T.

And?

Hanaa

What a shame ! Although i know i should use :we are going to have three quizes

Damkerng T.

I think "We have three quizzes" is fine.

Hanaa

10:53 AM

Really?

Damkerng T.

Yes. English doesn't really have future tenses.

So, even though it's likely that those grammar books for learners will have some chapters on English future tenses, they usually are misleading, imo.

Hanaa

No

Damkerng T.

"That's it. I'm learning swimming next year." is fine.

Note next year.

Hanaa

Just watch videos to make those books ideas perminent in ur mind

Damkerng T.

BTW, "We are going to have three quizzes" is also fine, but it's a little different.

@Hanaa I don't follow. What do you mean by that?

Hanaa

10:57 AM

@DamkerngT. i mean to memorize grammar rules, u need to watch videos too

Damkerng T.

@Hanaa Those rules are usually wrong, or at least misleading, as I said.

Hanaa

Books only are not enough

Damkerng T.

@Hanaa I don't know what videos you're talking about.

That fact that you think "We have X tomorrow" is wrong indicates that your grammar is based on some ESL books, which is inaccurate every once in a while.

Hanaa

There are tutors who make free grammar lessons on youtube

Damkerng T.

(Or at least the way they write about grammar is misleading.)

Hanaa

10:59 AM

No that stc is a mistake

Damkerng T.

@Hanaa Tutors can't spell out all the rules for you. They can bring you only that far.

Hanaa

Not a rule

Damkerng T.

@Hanaa I see you don't trust me again. That's fine. :-) You can try asking real native speakers and see their opinions.

I've gotta go. Sorry I couldn't elaborate more at this point.

Hanaa

I had rather to say we are going to have quizes tomorrow

Damkerng T.

Be back soon.

Hanaa

11:01 AM

Not trusting u?!

I have a class now

Bye

Damkerng T.

11:28 AM

@Hanaa Hmm... That sentence is interesting: I had rather to say ...

Outdated English?

(I guess some people may still use it in formal occasions.)

3

Q: Can "couldn't have done" be used in subjunctive mood?

We couldn't have finished the work ahead of time without your help. Does the sentence make sense to you? Can "couldn't have done" be used in subjunctive mood?

Ah, Ben Kovitz wrote a nice answer. I still couldn't think of a good way that could explain why couldn't have done has nothing to do with the subjective mood.

Hmm... I think I haven't seen CopperKettle a few days already. I hope he is okay.

Anonymous

11:49 AM

@DamkerngT. I'm not familiar with it, and there are no results for had rather to say in COCA

Anonymous

My guess would be that it's a combination of two errors: 1. mixing up had with would because their clitic forms have the same shape ("I would rather" → "I'd rather" → "I had rather"), and 2. using a to-infinitival clause in place of a bare infinitival clause

Anonymous

But of course that's no more than a guess

Damkerng T.

nods

Good afternoon, @snailboat!

@snailboat I found that Barry England quoted OED on I had rather.

Anonymous

Morning!

Damkerng T.

Eh? Oh, I miscalculated your local time again. Sorry!

infinitesimal

11:59 AM

4 AM

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Oh? Do you have an example of had rather to in Modern English?

Damkerng T.

1

Q: Using "I had rather" instead of "I would rather"

While commuting to work, I encountered a bumper sticker that said "I had rather be on/Cape Point Fishing". I found this curious, since I always thought that the correct expression would be "I would rather be...", instead of "I had rather be". Is there a joke I'm not getting, or was this ...

word-usage

@snailboat Perhaps not. I think all I found were just the cases of the speaker quoted something old.

Shakespeare's, most of the times.

Anonymous

What was the Shakespeare quote?

Damkerng T.

> I have done. Please it your grace, on to the state affairs. I had rather to adopt a child than get it

Anonymous

12:01 PM

I was guessing had rather to would be circa 1600 or earlier

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Modern had rather is more likely an error

Anonymous

(And probably doesn't occur with to)

Damkerng T.

That's what indeed crossed my mind.

But it didn't sound really wrong to me, just unfamiliar.

Oh, nice. Otto Jespersen mentioned it in his book.

> books.google.com/books?id=8CGvxVO_Eo8C&pg=PA184

Hehe, exactly the same sentence!

Anonymous

Ooh, that pushes it forward to the early 1800s!

Anonymous

12:05 PM

And to the early 1900s!

Anonymous

What a helpful set of cites

Anonymous

More helpful than the OED's

Damkerng T.

Hehe! I'm glad I found it. :D

Anonymous

From Jespersen's documentation, it seems I might have to accept that it never fully died out

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Anonymous

12:06 PM

Note that he labels occurrence with to as exceptional

Damkerng T.

Exactly!

Anonymous

When I say it never fully died out, I mean had rather, not had rather to

Damkerng T.

A-ha! Got it.

Anonymous

I do think, however, that had rather is best treated as non-standard in today's English

Damkerng T.

I think it's quite likely that when a non-native speaker said that it would be the confusion of I'd rather as in I would rather.

I remember that I had another confusion: I thought I'd better was I would better. Remember that? :-)

Anonymous

12:09 PM

I still think that's the most likely explanation among native speakers as well

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. A-ha! Well, that's a rather common sort of confusion, I think.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Anonymous

Grammatical had and would are usually reduced to clitic form in natural speech

Anonymous

So it's only natural for native speakers acquiring their language not to distinguish them in the traditionally expected manner at first

Damkerng T.

nods -- So it's kinda confusing.

Mistaking one for another is pretty easy!

Anonymous

12:13 PM

I imagine it's harder for non-native speakers since they tend to get less input

Anonymous

Native speakers probably mostly figure out by a certain age :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Exactly!

I remember that I always had heard it as the shorten form (I'd better), so I didn't really know its full form until you told me. Thanks for that once again. :D

Anonymous

The had better/best modal idiom is special in that not only is had almost always reduced, it's often elided entirely!

Damkerng T.

Oh, because the Red Carpet is coming soon, they re-run Frozen on Fox again. Nice! :-)

Anonymous

So people say things like "You best step off"

Anonymous

12:16 PM

You're s'posta know that had is somehow hiding in there, I guess :-)

Damkerng T.

So true!

I think I sometimes could hear the 'd. Perhaps that was the clue.

Anonymous

I started searching the web for examples to see if I could find had/would substitution by native speakers. Unfortunately, people don't tag their text as native or non-native, so I have to guess at who is which :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Sure, it's often there.

Anonymous

And so help me, I read this: fimfiction.net/story/107492/7/a-rainbow-in-the-sky/…

Damkerng T.

Hehe! I just realized that Princess Anna pronounces her name almost like Onna. :-)

Anonymous

12:17 PM

Or um, part of it, at least :-)

Anonymous

> But soon after, I was shocked at what happened, I had never do something as mean as that, I felt bad and soon returned and apologized.

Anonymous

It's easy for me to imagine this as an expansion of a mental 'd never

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I had never do?

Anonymous

= standard would never

Damkerng T.

Oh, right!

Anonymous

12:20 PM

I think one reason this sort of thing can happen is that we sometimes write things uncontracted when we'd say them contracted

Damkerng T.

How about this sentence?

> Twilight Sparkle was just finished writing a letter to Princess Celestia.

Anonymous

Like in Japanese, people sometimes write では when they would really pronounce it じゃ or じゃあ

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Are you asking about was versus had?

Damkerng T.

No, I spotted that sentence in the Prologue of that story.

Anonymous

Oh, well, what specifically are you asking for input on?

Damkerng T.

12:22 PM

I think the English in the story is strange.

> It all had happened so fast. No pony would've saw it coming.

Anonymous

Yes, I think the English is somewhat non-standard

Damkerng T.

But admittedly, it flows rather nicely.

Anonymous

There are a lot of things I'd call errors here, but I picked this result to look at because it seemed plausible to me that a native speaker wrote it

Damkerng T.

Hah!

I think it's a fluent non-native speaker who wrote it.

Anonymous

Seems like a reasonable guess.

Anonymous

12:28 PM

Native speakers certainly manage to write stuff with more errors than this, though.

Man_From_India

hi everyone!!

Anonymous

Hello! Welcome back to ELL chat!

Damkerng T.

Hi!

Man_From_India

thanks :-) how all of you are doing?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, I have another guess. Maybe the author moved to another country and started using English as their first language when they were still relatively young.

@Man_From_India I'm doing okay! :D

Anonymous

12:30 PM

Also a reasonable guess!

Damkerng T.

The flow is really neat. I mean, too neat, even with those oddities in grammar.

Anonymous

Well, there aren't all that many oddities in the grammar.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

There's an exceptional number of comma splices :-)

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Anonymous

12:31 PM

Arrive to is nonstandard for arrive at. That was noticeable

Damkerng T.

I guess their dialect is AmE because they wrote to the hospital.

Anonymous

The had/would substitution is also nonstandard, of course

Anonymous

The constant changes in tense are jarring, to say the least

Damkerng T.

That's something I've noticed too.

Anonymous

But those are all things that native speakers do.

Anonymous

12:34 PM

Many are only errors from the normative standard written English perspective

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I thought it would be rare for a native speaker to get the sequence of tense wrong.

Anonymous

Well, English doesn't exactly have a sequence of tenses rule

Damkerng T.

> When ponies asked why Gilda had shown up, since she was so mean the last time she saw Rainbow Dash, she said, "..."

I found myself stumbling getting through that line.

Though I think it's not wrong, had shown up threw me off a bit.

Anonymous

I can totally imagine someone saying that.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

12:38 PM

But I understand what you're saying

Anonymous

I haven't clicked through to any other chapters.

Anonymous

I didn't realize at first that there were other chapters

Anonymous

I'm almost afraid to click!

Damkerng T.

Hah! :D

Oh, I have something interesting to share.

I finally found a used, but exactly the same motherboard I'm using on eBay. The problem was the seller doesn't ship it to Thailand.

So I posted a message to him, asking if he would consider shipping to Thailand.

He said he would, but then he mentioned his old memories in VN, and said that he'd like all kinds of Betta Halfmoon!

It would be perfect if I were a fish merchant. :D

(And beauty fish at that.)

Anonymous

Hee

Anonymous

12:46 PM

Oh, you probably know of some other similar errors

Anonymous

The nonstandard reanalysis of would've as would of

Damkerng T.

What is it?

Anonymous

Since 've and of have the same shape in speech

Anonymous

Native speakers do that sort of reanalysis, too

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I think native speakers are more error prone to this.

Anonymous

12:48 PM

Maybe in this case it's more common because people almost never pronounce would have with the full form of have

Damkerng T.

I think I started saying of as uh myself for some time already.

(Sort of like Tony Stark's I'm not afraid-a you.)

Anonymous

Yeah, eliding the /v/ from both of and 've is common

Anonymous

"I woulda gone if I had the chance"

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

"Lots o' luck!"

Anonymous

12:52 PM

It's funny how people type things like "woulda" or "shoulda" more often then "afraida"

Damkerng T.

Because people aren't afraid (of anything) very often? :-)

Anonymous

Well, I'm sure people omit the /v/ from of in afraid of very often, even if they don't spell it that way :-)

Damkerng T.

> We can head down this mountain together!

Anonymous

►

Damkerng T.

I really like the dynamic between Anna and her sister!

Anonymous

12:55 PM

Anna is Veronica Mars!

Damkerng T.

Oh, I think I have seen some ads of Veronica Mars!

Anonymous

"I ain't 'fraid o' no ghost!"

Anonymous

Maybe I should watch Frozen again.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, I was thinking between I ain't 'fraid o' and I afraid o'. Thanks for the confirmation!

Anonymous

She was also that lightning electricity person in Heroes

Man_From_India

12:57 PM

Just curious to know: I had rather that you went to school. is this correct? Is this have the same meaning as I would rather you went school?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, I think I can't remember her in Heroes!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. The no is a hint: this dialect uses negative concord

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Sandeep Dhamija

Hi all! I need help phrasing a sentence. Can someone help?

Anonymous

@Man_From_India The had rather version is nonstandard

Damkerng T.

12:58 PM

@SandeepDhamija What would you like to phrase?

Anonymous

Be careful not to omit to before school, as in your second example

Man_From_India

But MEU says it's as idiomatic as would rather

yes

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Lemme see.

Damkerng T.

MEU?

Anonymous

MWDEU?

Damkerng T.

1:00 PM

Something English and Usage?

Ahh

Man_From_India

Modern English Usage page 347

Damkerng T.

Oh! That's not MW.

Anonymous

Hmm, what book is that?

Anonymous

Fowler?

Man_From_India

And MW dictionary of english usage the page no. is 490

Anonymous

1:01 PM

So what's it say?

Man_From_India

yes...but Butcherfield has edited its newer version

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Fowler's?

Man_From_India

yes

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Man_From_India

let me share the page

is this readable in your browser?

Anonymous

1:02 PM

It is

Damkerng T.

I can read it fine here!

Man_From_India

and in MW usage dictionary it claims that it's standard

Damkerng T.

Hmm... Interesting (particularly that 1985 quote).

Anonymous

CGEL just says that the had rather version is somewhat archaic in BrE

Man_From_India

ha ha...true :-)

:-O but the link you shared it says it's more common in UK than US :-D

Sandeep Dhamija

1:05 PM

@DamkerngT. It goes like this- There is a transparent glass door behind my seat at work. Everyone could look at my screen from there. So I requested and got it frosted, but the height of the frosted film is a little low and taller people can still see my screen. I want the height of this film to be increased upwards. Can you rephrase the last line? It sounds odd saying "I want the height this film to be increased upwards" :p

Man_From_India

I mean the question in ELU

Anonymous

Well, not the link I shared

Man_From_India

ohh sorry i think @DamkerngT. shared

Damkerng T.

Yep. Barry England's answer.

Man_From_India

yes right

Damkerng T.

1:06 PM

(Wait, is his name England or English?)

Man_From_India

England :)

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

@SandeepDhamija I think I'd simply say, "I want the film X feet higher".

Anonymous

It does seem like the older had rather never entirely died out

Damkerng T.

(I ignored the rest of your sentences.)

Anonymous

I'm not sure to what extent modern use can be called a survival of that rather than a reanalysis of 'd, or what evidence there is in either direction

Damkerng T.

1:08 PM

@snailboat nods -- But maybe had rather to really sounds odd.

Oh, found her! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elle_Bishop

Man_From_India

'd rather = had/would rather

Damkerng T.

Eleanor Zoe Bishop.

Anonymous

books.google.com/books?id=BEHFyMCdwssC&pg=PA32#v=onepage

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Generally, 'd rather = would rather

Sandeep Dhamija

@DamkerngT. Thanks man!

Anonymous

1:09 PM

But it's true that the contracted form doesn't make a distinction

Damkerng T.

@SandeepDhamija You're welcome!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It definitely does.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat That page is really nice! Thanks!

Anonymous

Would rather is much more common in all regions in GloWbE

Man_From_India

yes that is...

Anonymous

1:14 PM

I guess I have no choice but to admit that had rather exists in some examples of what should be considered standard English, although it's rather rare

Anonymous

But I'm not on board with "perfectly acceptable"―it's not part of my idiolect and it sounds rather off to me

Anonymous

But I at least won't object to other people using it

Anonymous

It does seem to be slightly more common in BrE in GloWbE

Anonymous

Though it doesn't seem common in any area

Anonymous

Something like 1% of results

Damkerng T.

1:19 PM

I'm not sure if my perception is correct, but if I heard I had rather, I would guess that the speaker was trying to sound more formal than usual.

Anonymous

My intuition is that it's a simple mistake

Damkerng T.

Oh, translation can really ruin movies.

Anonymous

Oh no!

Anonymous

What did they do to Frozen!?

Damkerng T.

It's the scene that Olaf said, "Don't worry. I got it" and walked to the window to close it (before he spotted Kristov).

They translated "I got it" (or "I got this", now I can't remember the exact words) as "I understood you".

Which is definitely out of place in the context!

Man_From_India

1:22 PM

I was reading this answer

1

A: "Stay home" or "stay at home" , which one is correct ? And why?

People used to think that prepositions had to come before a noun. However, in 1924 a writer called Otto Jespersen realised that prepositions are always prepositions, even if we don't use them with a noun. He also realised that some prepositions never come before nouns. It took a long time for pe...

Damkerng T.

Hey, Otto Jespersen was mentioned in there!

Man_From_India

And this comment really puzzled me

@Man_From_India That's why you should never use dictionaries for grammar:D If you check in any modern, vetted grammar source such as The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language or The Oxford Modern English Grammar you'll see that these words are ALWAYS prepositions and never adverbs! If you'd like to see the difference between prepositions and adverbs take a look at my answer here. It shows the grammar! :-) — Araucaria 19 mins ago

do you also think as a non-native speaker we should not use dictionaries for grammar?

Damkerng T.

I think it depends on what dictionary we're talking about.

(Some dictionaries are for English usage, so they're unlike other typical dictionaries.)

Man_From_India

brielfly I will explain the contect

it was a question about why there is no preposition in the sentence - He is home

the answer I shared says home is a preposition, as CGEL and Oxford grammar book says

Damkerng T.

Ah, I see. I think it depends on what grammar we are talking about, as well!

Man_From_India

1:25 PM

I commented in that answer: all online dictionaries say home is both adverb and noun.

Damkerng T.

Traditionally, home in He is home would be an adverb.

In modern grammars (like CGEL), it would be a preposition.

The thing is recently, we differentiate its PoS from its function.

(A common example would be those so commonly found nouns being used as adjective.)

What are they? They are a noun, but they are working (or functioning) as an adjective.

Man_From_India

what :-O

what is the sentence?

Damkerng T.

> I went to Tesco Lotus today, and they gave me a few free pens! Here, one Lotus pen for you.

Lotus is a noun. It's a proper noun. But it's working as an adjective modifying pen in the last sentence in the example.

Man_From_India

that is a nominal compound

i mean a word formed by noun + noun

Damkerng T.

See, it's the same thing being analyzed differently.

Anonymous

1:31 PM

Let's use "adjective" for a part of speech, not as a function. We can call this pre-noun function "attributive"

Damkerng T.

Ah, thanks for the correct terminology! :D

Man_From_India

ohh i see...you are analyzing iit from a different perspective

Anonymous

That way we can talk about attributive adjectives (a useful pen) and predicative adjectives (this pen is useful)

Anonymous

And attributive nouns (this is chicken soup)

Man_From_India

yes

Anonymous

1:32 PM

"This pen is more useful than that one." Adjectives are generally gradable.

Anonymous

＊"This soup is more chicken than that soup." Nouns are generally not.

Anonymous

Both are attributive, but they still differ.

Anonymous

I wrote a somewhat bad answer about this that has lots of upvotes on ELL, if you look

Damkerng T.

I wonder if it's really that bad. (I wouldn't think so. :-)

Man_From_India

he he...me too don't

Anonymous

1:34 PM

Well, I said "somewhat" ;-)

Anonymous

22

A: is "release date" grammatically correct?

They're attributive nouns. Here, release is an attributive noun. It modifies the head noun directly following it: release date Together they form the nominal release date, meaning "the date of [something]'s release". Add an article to that, and we get a complete noun phrase: [ The re...

Anonymous

There it is.

Damkerng T.

Ah, I'd already upvoted it. :-)

A quick quiz: How many points do you need to lead Patriots so you can be sure that Brady can't come back and win in the last quarter?

Anonymous

Umm.

Anonymous

A billion!

Damkerng T.

1:40 PM

lol

That's really close! :-)

The answer is "never many enough"!

Man_From_India

Nice answer @snailboat..

Anonymous

I have to elaborate a fair bit on the theory if I want the argument in the post to be complete

Anonymous

But I've never gotten around to it

Man_From_India

but it's still too much informative as it's written

Damkerng T.

BRB

Ahh... I didn't miss anything. :D

> Some people say that sports and chicken here are "adjectives" or "nouns acting as adjectives". These people are wrong. How do we know?

Argh! I'm one of those people. :D

Man_From_India

1:51 PM

Adjectives are gradable and non gradable... more chicken is not possible...

Damkerng T.

nods

Man_From_India

but that can mean they are non gradable :)

Damkerng T.

So, attributive is more appropriate.

Anonymous

We set up tests for parts of speech (lexical classes) like "Is it gradable?" and so on.

Man_From_India

yes...

Anonymous

1:52 PM

On its own, this particular test can't tell us that something isn't an adjective.

Anonymous

Mere is not gradable, but we still call it an adjective.

Anonymous

But if we take all the tests together, we have fairly strong evidence for whether or not it makes sense to consider something an adjective

Anonymous

We do the same thing with other sorts of tests (constituency tests, etc.)

Damkerng T.

1

Q: "Let them never be born" or "Let them never to be born?"

Which one is more grammatical? Example: Deformed children suffer a lot. Why not let them never (to) be born?

grammar word-choice

I'm not sure about the OP's alternatives. I think they're too close to the edge for me.

I'd simply prefer never let them be born.

Anonymous

Because let is one of the verbs that selects for a bare infinitival complement rather than a to-infinitival complement

Anonymous

2:04 PM

Help works both ways.

Anonymous

Let does not

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Your sentence is also possible!

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

Does let them never be born make sense to you?

Anonymous

Yes, though

Damkerng T.

2:05 PM

nods -- I see. Thanks.

Anonymous

I should note that something the question does not make explicit is the difference between "Let them never be born" and "Why not let them never be born?"

Anonymous

Which I think sound rather different

Damkerng T.

I can't tell why, but I think adding Why not to it makes it sound awkward.

Anonymous

I think it's grammatical

Anonymous

Awkward? Hmm, that sounds fair

Anonymous

2:08 PM

It's difficult to discuss because I can't bring myself to rephrase the OP's example

Anonymous

It's not something I want to express

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

So I can't really think about it objectively enough

Anonymous

The question of to, at least, is relatively simple :-)

Damkerng T.

hunter answered it nicely.

Anonymous

2:12 PM

I disagree that it doesn't make sense

Anonymous

But overall it seems like a fine answer

Damkerng T.

This reminds me of badminton! (I relate languages to sports, again!)

Man_From_India

this is a nice answer except this line "That being said, the sentence doesn't make a lot of sense, because there are two negatives in it, which is hard to parse."

Damkerng T.

Nobody makes it a rule that you have to swing your racket this way or that way, but good players usually end up having quite a similar swing.

My point is, other swings aren't as effective as this "natural" swing.

@Man_From_India I guess it's fair for hunter to say that it's hard to parse in hunter's opinion.

Man_From_India

Other than non-standard dialects, we often use double negatives in standard english as well: Not that I can't understand quantum physics. But Newtonian physics is the one I prefer to have it in question paper

@DamkerngT. Yes that is fair...it's his opinion :-)

Damkerng T.

2:16 PM

Yay! I got my (and his) point across.

@Man_From_India That's a fine sentence. (two, even!)

1

Q: modal word "can"

When the modal word "can" is used to express possibility, it is used to express general possibility or theoretical possibility rather than specific possibility（http://www.englishpage.com/modals/can.html）, for example "Prices can be high in London" is fine since this is theoretical possibility and...

modal-verbs modal

Modal verbs are hard.

Man_From_India

brb

Anonymous

@Man_From_India I agree with you

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Yes, good point! It's important to know the difference between multiple negations and negative concord, so I avoid the term "double negative" which is used for both

Anonymous

"I ain't afraid of no ghost."　← Negative concord. A single negation (semantically) is expressed twice in the sentence

2

Anonymous

"It's not that you couldn't say that if you wanted to …" ← Multiple negations.

Anonymous

2:32 PM

That's how I use the terms, anyway.

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