« first day (4936 days earlier)   
00:00 - 03:0003:00 - 21:00

3:00 AM
@SillyGoose my gr course treated a few metrics
 
Oh i see
then it makes more sense
 
mink, FLRW, schwarzschild, kerr? im not sure if im remembering these exactly right
 
Omg mink
 
plus learning index notation which u have struggled w in this chat for months XD
im just saying maybe educate urself before u trivialize one of the hardest subjects of all time publicly -- sounding a bit like someone else in this chat
2
 
3:03 AM
I think deriving Schwarzchild, and then working out one of 1) Mercury's precession, 2) Eddington's deflection of light by Sun is almost not-measurable, 3) GPS time dilation, is quite helpful as a GR course.
lol
 
i didn’t ever claim gr was easy or trivial
 
i think ur message did trivialize the course. i also think you could have easily educated urself enough to answer ur q / thought ab it a bit more and realized that its not different than any other subject
 
yeah, for some reason quite a lot of people have serious troubles with index notation. One of my online students complained about it too. Miao miao am very lucky to have had really good introduction to that, so much so that it never felt difficult. Instead, Hodge dual is really confusing for meow, because levi-civita in Cartesian is so easy that miao miao never got to practice the Hodge dual version
 
@naturallyInconsistent blebs
 
@Relativisticcucumber It is absolutely crazy how some people just immediately see ridiculous ways to do things. Ladder operators just jumped out of the blue between Dirac and Schrödinger, and they got so far as to factorise the Coulomb potential too. Schwarzchild's solution was also something that Einstein wasn't even anywhere near expecting. He was expressing doubt that it could even be solved exactly, and if it were to be solved, it would be far after his death. It wasn't supposed to be within years
 
3:26 AM
oops, miao miao iz on tv again
 
 
1 hour later…
4:41 AM
@Relativisticcucumber you are rightso
 
5:33 AM
how is this question lacking clarity :P (my own question): physics.stackexchange.com/questions/813771/…
 
5:43 AM
I wouldn't closed it, but it does seem unclear to me exactly what you're asking as you've pretty much defined it in your question.
 
They are trying to ask if you have read a standard quantum computing textbook and learnt one of the various ways to measure the degree of entanglement fromt here. Those use the density operators and you might love them
 
5:57 AM
i am wondering how people interpret the sentence "How do I understand precisely in mathematical language the description of (pure and mixed state) entanglement as inducing a special type of correlation between measurement outcomes of subsystems?"
this to me is clearly not asking about anything to do with the textbook definition of entanglement since the textbook definition of entanglement says nothing precisely about correlations between measurements of subsystems
the only textbook i've seen a somewhat detailed discussion of what i am asking for is "Quantum Information Meets Quantum Matter" by Zeng et al. but it's not in mike and ike nor schlosshauer etc.
 
No, no, there are mathematical quantities that measure the degree of entanglement.
In quantum information theory, an entanglement witness is a functional which distinguishes a specific entangled state from separable ones. Entanglement witnesses can be linear or nonlinear functionals of the density matrix. If linear, then they can also be viewed as observables for which the expectation value of the entangled state is strictly outside the range of possible expectation values of any separable state. == Details == Let a composite quantum system have state space H A ⊗ H...
 
 
1 hour later…
7:33 AM
So there was chatroom I was once invited to ... And I can't find it ... I had shared many physics insights of mine over there
Is there a way I can find it?
 
@MoreAnonymous Chat rooms are locked if they have not been used for 14 days, then they get deleted after some longer time that I don't recall. It may be that the room no longer exists.
 
@JohnRennie dang ...
 
If you recall any specific words you used you can use the chat search.
 
It's okay I remember the insights
Maybe I'll shared them again
 
Replace elephants by any word you remember using.
 
7:45 AM
Yea ... It was ages ago
Nothing is popping up
Any book recommendations for stochastic gravity?
 
@Relativisticcucumber classified
 
@JohnRennie this was one of them:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/786485/on-quantization-of-gravitational-potential
One of the physics insights
 
8:43 AM
@JohnRennie this is extremely irresposible of stackexchange
@MoreAnonymous was it the one with u, Sanjana and me?
 
@SillyGoose I briefly viewed it once at the library, I think. Apart from his writing everything in component wise differential equations (which was a little annoying but OK), some of the stuff he talks about did not inspire me all that much.
Did you like it?
 
@SillyGoose hi. they key-est fundamental difference between classical and quantum is the interference in quantum
note that this difference is more about dynamics than measurements
 
@RyderRude yup
What happened to the insights and the world after that is a mystery to me :/
 
9:00 AM
This was the room
 
Ugh ... It brings back memories
What happened to all the citations etc?
Did you finally publish a paper?
 
@SillyGoose One buzzword which you might be looking for but already know by now: LOCC.
You can also see Plenio-Virmani which has the following inside it:
> "This leads to the question - how do we define quantum correlations, and what differentiates them from classical correlations? The distinction between ‘quantum’ effects and ‘classical’ effects is frequently a cause of heated debate. However, in the context of quantum information a precise way to define classical correlations is via LOCC operations."
And then there comes those reviews which is more of a list of references than an actual review
E.g. One review written by Horodecki, Horodecki, Horodecki and Horodecki :p
@MoreAnonymous No... I am no physicist. I just like to study it as a hobby.
 
@Sanjana thanks..
 
Hmmm ... Same
Im a wanna be ploy math
*polymath
And educator
 
9:16 AM
You are too weird in what you consider. You might become an educator, but it will be a struggle on both sides.
 
@naturallyInconsistent :// I dunno I think I have a worthwhile perspective and it can be taught
 
9:41 AM
I still remember how cool it was when I realised u can think of relative and absolute as a continuum
Mass = 0
Is relative
Mass = infinity
Is absolute
 
and that is reason number two why you should not be teaching.
 
Lolz
Think of it using reduced mass
And what happens when u take the limit of mass body 2 to infinite
You recover newtons f = ma
And we know from qft. Ignore vaccum infinity
Anyway relative and absolute are not binary categories
Which makes you wonder how many binary categories are there actually?
 
two
 
9:59 AM
the Dirac Von Neumann axioms r too general. they dont categorise quantum theories
a quantum theory must hav interference and Bell's inequality violation
but even these dont fully categorise it i think
 
I meant physical binary categories ... Like relative absolute ... How many such categories exist .... I'll ask on philosophy stack exchange for a comprehensive list
 
anyone want to play this lichess.org/hZKEKjvJ?
@MoreAnonymous these r loosely defined terms. philisophers might hav tried to make these terms precise
we use these terms loosely in practice and the usage is clear from context
 
Not in the mood for chess ATM
But it's interesting I think
 
yeah
 
I also learned chat for is useless when u ask it this :p
 
10:10 AM
what do u mean
 
I asked chat gpt to list binary categories
Which were physical
Nothing insightful and some plane wrong
 
It might also be a language thing I realized
It would be so cool if there was a civilization which used absolute and relative in a continuum sense
 
chatgpt works by predicting words
it's like autocorrect
maybe humans too work like that idk
it sounds like a reasonable model... storing words in ur brain and forming connections
like a topological space of words
 
Turings machines are actually humans but humans are not Turing machines
- wittgenstien vs Turing
 
10:17 AM
the reverse cud make some sense
a turing machine can be a tape, which is def not human
 
Wittgensiten was critiquing Turing of confusing the 2
Lemme see if I can find the conversation I was trying
To type for my book
Turing paused as he recollected the Cambridge hall, where Wittgenstien and him first exchanged words:

“I see mathematics as more of a language game. It merely follows agreed upon rules where meaning arises from its use within a particular context. Consider for example division by zero. It gives a nonsensical result. The solution is to ban these kinds of manipulations. Now, one may continue to modify their mathematical language as such, however, realise you are no longer making predictions in science, rather you are making retrodictions in this language since you keep updating it upon error
 
@naturallyInconsistent @Sanjana ah okay thanks these responses give the way to an answer to my question i think
@MoreAnonymous how did you write so long a message :0
 
@SillyGoose copy paste :p
 
i thought there was a word limit on messages
 
Hmmm 🤔 didn't know
Anyway ur free to give me feedback on what I wrote
 
10:24 AM
there's quite a funny supposed wittgenstein quote i read today ""What would it have looked like if it had looked like the Earth went round the sun?""
 
Ah ... That is funny
Feel free to share rhe original
 
im not sure from what text of letter or conversation it was from, i read it in the epigraph of a book on many worlds :P
 
Ah I see
 
@MoreAnonymous i agree with Wittgenstien
 
Same :)
 
10:28 AM
my recent philosophy has been that it is the mind that creates a subjective mathematical world in which it inhabits. the objective reality is not mathematical
 
That's quite cool ... I think mapping the physical world onto the mental might not be possible
As well
In a complete manner
 
maybe... but the mapping is there to a reasonable accuracy... similar to the accuracy of any other science
 
@Sanjana Lol, i have noticed that the polish are particular leaders in entanglement theory with Życzkowski and the Horodeckis
 
but there was this guy whose entire brain was almost missing and he was fine
 
@RyderRude what?
Sounds spooky
Anyway tell me more about ur philosophy next time
I gtg for now
 
10:34 AM
this is one such guy .en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaxon_Buell
 
i hope entanglement is taught differently in the future
 
oh he only lived 5 years
lemme find another exampel
 
No no that was spooky enoght
 
one is given an operational definition and left wondering if they have learned anything at all ~~
 
this man was normal
@MoreAnonymous okay :)
@MoreAnonymous i started with this philosophy a year ago philosophy.stackexchange.com/q/98490/27700
but it's a wrong philosophy now. only a stepping stone toward the truth
 
10:41 AM
I think I've mentioned in the math stack exchange chat but u can argue easily against platonism
Have I shared that argument here? In case ur interested
@RyderRude lemme read
 
@MoreAnonymous no. please share
 
Sure
So do u know the philosophy argument where they say if I invert the colour spectrum two people would not be able to find out
Like if I replace red with yellow and yellow with red
For person a and person b
Person b will just think red is called yellow
This is a popular thought experiment in philosophy
 
i dont know about it exactly. but i think u r saying that if two people saw the same thing to be of different colors, they wudnt b able to know that
 
@RyderRude yup
Now
Imagine I do the same thing for sound
I invert the spectrum
Does music theory remain the same?
Ofcourse not
So you have a disagreement in the second case
 
y did the music theory change
idk music theory that much. cud we make an analogy with painting theory in the case of colors?
 
10:48 AM
Which shows u can't think of music existing in an isolated platonic world
 
@MoreAnonymous r we proving that sound qualia hav a measurable consequence on the world
 
@RyderRude its less intuitive with colours ... Cause it's like saying u are more likely to like red to blue than blue to red
 
It's much more easier when u use yoneda lemma ... Lemme see if I can dig that post
5
A: From the "inverted spectrum" to the "music transposed by 12" problem?

Ted WrigleyThis question conflates the objective and subjective elements of perception. Or to put it more concretely, we don't question that the cones of the retina each respond to certain wavelengths of light, we question whether the subjective experience generated by the transmission of signals from those...

I got the idea from here ^
The YouTube video linked
 
thanks
 
10:53 AM
Welcome
 
11:05 AM
@MoreAnonymous That doesn't quite work. I can say that something is a greenish yellow, or yellowish green. And people with normal colour vision can imagine such colours. But it's hard to imagine a reddish green, or a greenish red. Unless you have a form of red-green colour-blindness. So you can't just swap red and yellow.
And so it's quite similar to trying to do the same thing with music, where swapping two notes in a scale messes up the harmony in various chords.
 
@PM2Ring lemme dig out the philosophy thought experiment
@PM2Ring the transpose by 12 is a distraction
Parity illustrates this better
 
I don't know what your experience of redness is (your qualia). But I do know that when we see red things that very similar pigments in the cones of our retinas are getting activated.
 
@MoreAnonymous the first answer says that maybe they dont vibe to the music becuz they dont like it
i think we can make an analogy to paintings
 
@RyderRude I know ... But the probability of them not liking it changes
 
11:16 AM
Imagine if I have group of people who are likely to vibe and another which aren't
@RyderRude music theory basically tells u what sounds nice in a sense
@PM2Ring yes and we can't construct a disagreement from that
However in music u can ... By the argument I'm making
 
@MoreAnonymous yes, but it only tells us what frequencies sound nice, for instance. the same frequency may sound very different to two people, and they may both still call it nice, even tho they wud call it awful if they cud hear the other person's subjective experience
so agreement on music taste is not evidence of same subjective experience. and disagreement on music taste is not evidence of different subjective experience @MoreAnonymous
 
Lemme think a bit more
 
i think there is an analogy with paintings
 
It's like this to me if everyone likes a red painting I call it red colour theory
If everyone likes blue I call it blue colour theory
Turns out no one likes blue colour theory
@RyderRude actually process with ur apology
"analogy
The way I see the parity operation on the sound spectrum is a physical one ...
If there were humans who heard music differently their subjective sense of music and what they composed would be different imo
 
@MoreAnonymous Ok. I've just read that question, and Ted's answer. Totally inverting the colour spectrum is different to just swapping red & yellow. Transposing musical notes so that you just change the octave but keep the same note name has interesting effects, but hopefully it's obvious that people can tell the difference between high treble notes and low bass notes. ;)
 
11:26 AM
lemme think
 
@PM2Ring cool beans
 
I assume from that linked question that you play bass. So as you know, we rarely play chords on bass, because they sound too muddy. Occasionally we play pairs of notes simultaneously, but anything beyond that is risky, unless you intentionally want that muddy effect. On piano, you can get away with bass chords, but they're still pretty simple, and rarely use the lowest notes on the keyboard.
 
ok so if we make this assumption : the qualia/qualia combinations of color/sound, that are liked by humans, are more or less agreed upon among humans, then this conclusion follows : if half the people on earth had inverted experiences of the same music/painting, then music/painting theory would be extremely divisie
but there is no way to verify the assumption
maybe when u hear ur favorite song, other people hear a godawful noise but they like it anyway
 
@PM2Ring have I shared with u my music of jazz and metal?
@RyderRude yea ...
 
There is a wide range of tastes, but a lot of that comes down to what visual art or music you've been exposed to, especially during your teens and childhood.
 
11:33 AM
yes, this is y i said "more or less agreed upon"
clear agreement def isnt there
 
Yea but music theory does show there is some underlying structure
 
but for e.g. most humans wud find a painting of some disease to be disgusting
 
People who mostly listen to Western "classical" music rarely hear much percussion in their music. So the percussion in most popular music sounds excessive to them.
 
Wait for the piano to kick in this one:
I havent heard anyone do this style of music
Anyway
I gtg
 
Before the 20th century, percussion was mostly in marches. And some forms of dance music. We can thank the influence of African American culture for the huge presence of drums in popular music.
 
11:38 AM
Lemme know ur conclusion @RyderRude
 
okay
i dont think ur conclusion follows becuz of the reason i gave but im not much familiar with music theory
 
OTOH, if we go back several centuries, to the baroque era, and earlier, there was more use of percussion, in some forms of Western music. Probably not much in church music, though. ;)
 
maybe other peoples' experience of ur favorite music is something u wud call awful, but those people like that experience, hence they also like ur favorite music, hence there is no disagreement in music theory @MoreAnonymous
 
People found some patterns nice and called that music theory imo
It is interesting there are other kinds of music theory like atonal which I'm not really familiar .... But they are awful to listen to
It's a bit circular
 
I posted this here a few years ago, but it's pretty awesome, so it deserves repeating. All the musicians are superb, but I especially like the bass playing of Tal Wilkenfeld
 
@MoreAnonymous Yeah. It's good that people investigate that stuff, but most of us don't get much pleasure from the results. Frank Zappa studied serial composition, and used some of those ideas in his work. But he often combined those ideas with other things, to make them more accessible. Eg, the title track of Zoot Allures.
 
@PM2Ring thanks I'll check him out too
 
@MoreAnonymous Yeah, they're good. Do you know about Hannah Wicklund? IIRC, she is (or was) the girlfriend of one of the guys in Greta Van Fleet.
She also plays piano
 
12:07 PM
@PM2Ring I'll check her out
 
12:59 PM
@SillyGoose He used linebreaks i.e. made paragraphs.
@SillyGoose Yes!
 
1:18 PM
has anyone read "the emergent multiverse" by wallace?
 
 
1 hour later…
2:32 PM
i made a physics joke ..
how do u know if someone shuts up and calculates?... Don't worry... they will tell u ;)
 
3:20 PM
i got it from Carroll at 6:15 youtu.be/JsZ1aB5egEQ?si=80YvX18-06AzCBdX
 
3:54 PM
How did Penrose get the Penrose number?
 
 
5 hours later…
8:41 PM
@MoreAnonymous see this physicsforums.com/threads/…
 
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