What date format do we want

@Downgoat YYYY-MM-DD

no words?

btw can someone write something to remove markdown formatting from a markdownstring: e.g.:

> ## Background One time I saw a sheep and it was pretty bad. So much evil and bad in one place. Now I ~hacked into~ work at FBI where there are a lot of pictures of evil ~people~ sheep. Since I don't want to interact with sheep, I need you to write me a program that will detect the goats and separate them from the sheep ## Examples You can find examples on how to make a goat

becomes:

> Background One time I saw a sheep and it was pretty bad. So much evil and bad in one place. Now I hacked into work at FBI where there are a lot of pictures of evil people sheep. Since I don't want to interact with sheep, I need you to write me a program that will detect the goats and separate them from the sheep Examples You can find examples on how to make a goat

@Downgoat Sometimes we have to show short timestamps, we can't always have words. When there's space, we can do MMMM D, YYYY

oic what you mean

yeah

#esoteric on Freenode has been discussing making a new golfing site too, to avoid duplication of effort I think it's worth posting this log of one of the discussions here: pastebin.com/raw/V4sHNvy6

you're much further ahead than we are though

(warning: it's interspersed with rants against Stack Exchange)

that said, if you require Google accounts I won't be able to participate, because I don't have one and am unwilling to get one

@ais523 I just said Hi, on the #esoteric freenode, do you see that? (idk how to IRC so idk if I am doing right)

I wasn't online there, so no, client closed by mistake

/me connects back to freenode

@ais523 Oh hey, what happened? I thought you deleted your PPCG account

@quartata: I did, but SE sucks at deleting accounts

ha

Yeah I don't think it gets rid of your network account

I still have badges from PPCG in the collider

FWIW I agree the sentiment of your convo with quintopia but I think a split in the community could really hurt it -- there's no way everyone will migrate

well this isn't even the only golfing community as it is, so you really wouldn't need everyone to migrate

just enough people to make a viable site

I do agree with the "have a working bridge to and from SE if possible" thing though, that would help both sites

I don't think we every expect that to happen but given SE literally keeps forgetting we exist I think it really is necessary to make a golfing site which can foster a positive golfing community and environment.

it's worse than forgetting, every time you remind them they tell you you're doing it wrong :-(

but I should stop ranting about them, it doesn't help anything

for what it's worth, all the best content on PPCG is blatantly rules-breaking anyway; the whole quest-for-tetris thing was a) absolutely amazing and really worth doing, and b) clearly evidence that the question should have been closed as too broad, and none of the answers actually answers the question on its own

@ais523 are you all at #esoteric interested in working on development of the site (the one we have Mego/PPCG-v2)?

I'm interested but not convinced I have the time, at least in terms of helping with code

if you want help with design decisions, playtesting, etc. I might be able to help with that

I really want this project to succeed, which maybe inclines me to help a bit more than I really should

@ais523 yes: do u have ideas on how should voting work

multiple categories of votes per answer

like, you can vote an answer as well-described or clever or funny or whatever

that way the funny answers aren't competing against the serious ones but can still be recognised

(presumably you'd have a separate rep/karma/whatever in each category)

also, something to stop the bandwagon effect; that could be as simple as only allowing voting if answers are sorted by "shortest"/"active"/"newest" (but not if sorted by votes)

btw, you definitely want a sort-by-shortest (or sort-by-best-score for non-golf challenges, but shortest might be interesting there too)

it's one of the things that PPCG most needs and can't have

@ais523 so would there still be a main up/down vote? Would there be "down-clever" votes?

I'm kind-of torn on the purpose of votes, sometimes

I think a main upvote is probably harmful, because it tends to incentivise vote-seeking over other considerations

saying "this is voted too high" is a reasonable opinion, and maybe you should reasonably be able to do that even if you agree that the post is somewhat clever

one problem that SE has and there's no obvious good fix for

is say someone submits a good answer, it gets 10 upvotes

then someone else submits a better answer, but the first answer is still good

so people who read the posts typically upvote them both, and the worse-but-good answer stays ahead forever

also, how should answers be sorted?

you could get round that by telling people to try to "vote posts into order"

I think it should be up to the user how to sort answers; "new" or "best score" would make good defaults

(SE's "old" is backwards, "new" is a lot more useful in practice)

@ais523 so score is what? or do you mean have 'sort by most clever' 'sort by most funny'

score against the winning criterion

shortest length for golf, etc.

I think a site needs separate input fields for placing the program and placing the explanation, so that the program can be scored automatically

what would also be cool is, for some golfing languages, supporting the ability to hover over a character and it'll show you docs for what it does

that way you don't have to do like char-by-char explanations

right, although that'd only work in fairly orthogonal languages like Jelly

I've been working on a golfing language of my own (for quite a while now), but it's a really big project and is unlikely to be finished any time soon

it has the property that even with character-by-character explanations, without context it'd still be pretty hard to understand

I was planning to get the compiler to generate explanations itself

Jelly, Pyth, CJam, GolfScript, Charcoal, osabie to name a veiw

that said, a "quick language reference" right next to the input box would be really handy

especially with Brachylog, it uses a number of characters that aren't on my keyboard so I have to copy-and-paste

oh, yeah, a 'encoding' dropdown, bringing up a code-page keyboard would be helpful

codepage keyboard, that's a good name for it

although people should still design their golfing languages to be easy to type

you can type Jelly fairly easily if you know how: Æa Ṣ Þ

(that's just a few random commands, it probably doesn't mean anything)

> you can type Jelly fairly easily if you know how

I mean that's like true for everything :P

no, even if you know how to type Brachylog it's still a pain

the reason Jelly's codepage is apparently so weird and arbitrary is that nearly all the nonstandard characters on it can be typed using level 3 shift

which is standard to have on keyboards in the UK (labelled "AltGr" for some reason), but not the US

@ais523 The UK is near countries with languages other than English, so it comes up more often there, I think.

@Mego do we have domain/hosting sorted out yet?

@Mego do you mean byte or bit?

head -c 2048 will make 2048 bytes.

On that website you linked you can't actually type in a publik key, the public key is generated by the website

 $ head -c 256 /dev/urandom | tee PPCGv2-key | openssl rsautl -encrypt -pubin -inkey key.pub | base64
RSA operation error
140091401168704:error:0406D06E:rsa routines:RSA_padding_add_PKCS1_type_2:data too large for key size:crypto/rsa/rsa_pk1.c:125:

RSA seems so simple but it ends up being shockingly annoying to use

kk

ok cool

DWJyX0XctPkU9UsuZc9yAdUml1rRubUpAOrtIGhRgzeT8S6lvyXusK0/9Gtbr4EjzQeiLNQg33mP
jxH7MlR10w81Hg7pWTrP8VjBPXniIPDR20TRfPsi9wzv9NX0e9IOBaH6ZHha349FdDPxyu1QVtf5
txmzVlgkVacXl9+tD3q0J5c/eDfwRZ5o+Pr9RM2egUXSnr/oCv7ZCHP5Pd7D9ke6kdOn/zz7asCh
wp5PaF6Ksj7+hpZI6NDrvScKHji8qFfIqGBhXUEILVdHWeEvgnmaolRL+5bwHciAvbamQaupKnCH
wlHtnabiFvwAq88hPFwIrQXl0zgmSdsgbHnNTsqgiPWLBR4RJRkYWR8UvHVrC7ab0D0S8AEcfoEH
1YKJmJD7xtQW81VIi7JWTsN3gwl+2sDtNeWyWEj0j2YE9ZuG747xVwoGh53APn8Tt5pt6+IN3nhk
xb0w6GwQ0v3DkKAuXuoQ32sKED7VxQPu43PTSAJ4UEP6XnNKCij/ZJkrce4pn6weOR6LtXTLFIuF

@Mego ^ is the output

BRB finding fedora package that supplies that

Nope

@Mego here's the key:

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…

checksum (sha256) is e0dfff0a31560c6d1bf69dd137d3733507d72ca3f3cf7abba4b0fcb878bede14

The internet tells me it is bundled by bash reports command not found

@Pavel O_o even mac has it bundled and mac doesn't have anything

wait nvm apparently I installed it

@Mego Mystery solved: sha25sum is provided by package glibc. For reasons.

And yes, hashes match.

Of the Base64

0/10

Ok

@Mego raw binary checksum: a3bfd13e6e29f068532fa1332d7fb1b3113b4ccfb61fdb424cb08342b0980e56

no trailing newline

I uploaded it here: vihan.org/files/key

echo $(head -c 256 /dev/urandom | openssl rsautl -encrypt -pubin -inkey MegoKey.pub | base64) > key.pub

then base64 --decode key.pub | shasum -a 256 to get shasum

base64 --decode seems to remove trailing newline

@Downgoat you need to save the key before it gets piped into openssl, perhaps with tee.

@Pavel >_< oh... yea

ok new encrypted random bytes:

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…

sha256 of raw original random byte: 7d49d5648f394dd6773d1daf1b4bc98e28caccdbba85dee167a623dd872f5b64

ran with:

head -c 256 /dev/urandom | tee key2.pub | openssl rsautl -encrypt -pubin -inkey MegoKey.pub | base64

shasum -a 256 key2.pub

@Mego

:D

D:

@Mego blame-ufw?

@Downgoat United Farm Workers?

Naming something like a firewall "Uncomplicated" is just asking for trouble.

somethingsomethingportforwarding

@Mego I spent like a good fifteen minutes recently trying to get the spotify app on my phone to connect to the spotify app on my computer before realizing that the way it's set up in my house the ethernet and wifi are seperate networks.

Probably not your issue, just a thing that happened

So... build from source, I suppose?

(Normally this is around the part where I give up)

<--- just gave up building fprint from source

Ah

(Fingerprint readers and Linux don't like each other)

So I should install redis?

that took a good 5 seconds

I missed having a package manager

$ redis-cli 72.48.166.68
Could not connect to Redis at 127.0.0.1:6379: Connection refused

Um

That looks odd

Not sure why it's trying to connect to localhost

@Mego It worked, I realized I need the -h flag

I mean, I think it worked.

A prompt came up

$ redis-cli -h 72.48.166.68
72.48.166.68:6379> hi
(error) ERR unknown command 'hi'
72.48.166.68:6379> ls
(error) ERR unknown command 'ls'
72.48.166.68:6379> foo?
(error) ERR unknown command 'foo?'
72.48.166.68:6379>

@Mego (error) NOAUTH Authentication required.

I have no idea what to do with that information

Hmm, pip failed

I think I need python3-devel

Command "/usr/bin/python3 -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='/tmp/pip-build-bes61wz2/pycryptodome/setup.py';f=getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__);code=f.read().replace('\r\n', '\n');f.close();exec(compile(code, __file__, 'exec'))" install --record /tmp/pip-mcwi53cn-record/install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in /tmp/pip-build-bes61wz2/pycryptodome/

Anyway it worked with python3-devel

$ python3 -c "from Crypto.Cipher import AES; import base64; iv = base64.b64decode(b'81vEPBoDvo7GR+JBQt3tOw=='); msg = base64.b64_decode(b'GhKqzFLEzs7hBkZXuUM8c0ij6Ds='); cipher = AES.new('$(head -c 16 PPCGv2-key)', AES.MODE_CFB, iv); print(cipher.decrypt(msg))"
Unable to decode the command from the command line:
UnicodeEncodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't encode character '\udcb9' in position 178: surrogates not allowed

Hmm

Ah.

Also you wrote b64_decode in one spot and b64decode in another

@Mego Ok I can't seem to get it to work, no matter how I do it I get a different error each time.

python3 -c "from Crypto.Cipher import AES; import base64; iv = base64.b64decode(b'81vEPBoDvo7GR+JBQt3tOw=='); msg = base64.b64decode(b'GhKqzFLEzs7hBkZXuUM8c0ij6Ds='); cipher = AES.new(r'<THE LITERAL 16 BYTES PASTED HERE>', AES.MODE_CFB, iv); print(cipher.decrypt(msg))"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/local/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/Crypto/Cipher/AES.py", line 202, in new
    return _create_cipher(sys.modules[__name__], key, mode, *args, **kwargs)

I'm pasting some wierd stuff that looks like �.

b tells me it expects only ascii

Nope

$ python3 -c "from Crypto.Cipher import AES; import base64; iv = base64.b64decode(b'81vEPBoDvo7GR+JBQt3tOw=='); msg = base64.b64decode(b'GhKqzFLEzs7hBkZXuUM8c0ij6Ds='); cipher = AES.new(b'$(head -c 16 PPCGv2-key)', AES.MODE_CFB, iv); print(cipher.decrypt(msg))"
Unable to decode the command from the command line:
UnicodeEncodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't encode character '\udcb9' in position 178: surrogates not allowed

Ok that finally worked

@Mego the result looks like b'stuff' (with the quotes). The hashes do not match with and without the surrounding b''.

Yay it matches

Yes it was.

It would have probably been faster and easier to just setup a WhatsApp group

Didn't we decide to dump that in favor of a discord invite link

So we are going to roll our own chat?

@Mego Worked, got OK

PONG

Yisss

We can go to sleep now

Aww

Ok, you don't need me for anything anymore?

Alright. Good night and cya tommorow!

aw i missed encryption stuff

unlucky

i was... dealing with side-effects of antibiotics yesterday

Alright, thanks!

@Mego Imagine that, connection succeeded on the first try.

Actually, the first time I forgot to give the -w0 switch to base64, so more like the second try, but I don't really want to count that.