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6:31 AM
1
Q: Moderator Pro Tem Announcement

Anna LearThroughout the beta, we need members from the site whose focus is to engage the community, both in community-building issues and site management. That's why we select a few members from each community to act as temporary, provisional Moderators. You can read about the program here: Moderators Pro...

 
7:31 AM
Is that the preview for the 3rd movie?
 
 
4 hours later…
11:59 AM
1
Q: The characters tag, good or bad?

Madara UchihaA tag has many purposes. The most popular tag of a question will appear in its title, which helps SEO. Tags help navigate the site. Tags have pages to describe about them, providing background on the subject. A tag is less useful then, if it appears on most of the questions on the site. ...

 
 
1 hour later…
1:04 PM
@JonLin Yes. Looks pretty good.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:18 PM
0
Q: How to ask questions on this site?

Madara UchihaWhat are the kinds of questions one should ask on this site? The following will cover: What kinds of questions are considered good, on topic questions on this site? What to do to make sure my question gets the best chances of good answers? What kinds of questions are considered off topic on ...

 
 
1 hour later…
4:32 PM
@HellButterfly I like this question, but are we should we provide actual posted questions or provide conceptual examples?
 
5:03 PM
@Krazer I was thinking about that too
I guess we could provide examples
and I was thinking we should make an answer for each point in the question
and edit the question to link to each answer
we should provide conceptual examples, and illustrate them with actual questions
that is what I think
And I got the impression that Madara's objective with that post was to create a sort of guide for users, rather then to incite discussion
so there should be debate before posting anything there, I guess
also, most of those topics have been debated
 
 
1 hour later…
6:34 PM
@JNat I feel that we should draw from existing examples before we make conceptual examples, because existing examples have been tried and proven, while conceptual question can be hit and miss.
 
Yo @Krazer @JNat
Both here?
 
6:50 PM
@MadaraUchiha All hail, Truth-sama!
 
 
3 hours later…
10:19 PM
@MadaraUchiha how exactly does one add something to the FAQ page?
 
@Krazer Let's test
There's an edit link
 
I only see an "edit" option for "What kind of questions can I ask here?"
 
hey
 
hello~
 
@Krazer about that question I closed
I saw it as not constructive, and tried to explain it to the OP
 
10:27 PM
the user was new you should give him time to modify his question before you close it or leave it up to the community
 
I should have just left a comment and let the situation 'handle itself'
 
Since we're new we don't want to chase away new users for not reading the instruction before posting
 
@Krazer yeah, totally agreed
 
@MadaraUchiha is "What kind of questions can I ask here?" the only question we can edit?
 
btw, did you understand what DeidaraSenpai's comment meant?
 
10:30 PM
@JNat Which one?
 
the one on that question
 
@JNat xD Which one? That one about the stupid protagonist trope?
 
@RossSpencer If it makes you feel any better, that's how it works here unfortunately. There is a group of people who decide what the question means, regardless of what the OP actually meant. Any amount of explanation saying "that's not what I am asking for" won't change a thing. — Deidara-senpai 5 hours ago
 
@JNat Ah I think it's a bit harsh. It's up to the community to decide if it's a good question (not a group of ppl), they are the ones that will try to help you answer you're question. If the OP doesn't provide sufficient context, the community will have a tough time trying to figure out what the OP is looking for.
 
I'll put my 2 cents into this.
That one is quite borderline.
He isn't asking for a list to be answered - but rather a link to one.
Which is almost as bad.
Since link-only answers are extremely discouraged since they become useless if the link dies.
 
10:40 PM
@Mysticial but he explicitly says "I am looking for a list of zombie anime..." xD
 
Yeah you're right, the question body itself is crying that.
In the earlier days of SO, such a question would have been forced into CW almost immediately.
lol at the irony of "more mature than High School of the Dead"
"more mature" implies adult content.
 
xD
I edited Logan M's comment to include a link to the meta about recommendation questions.
 
We also have to make a decision on this question:
29
Q: What differentiates anime from regular cartoons?

hkBattousaiIn my region, people don't know the difference between anime and regular cartoons. When they see me watching anime, or they hear about it somehow, they say that I'm watching a regular cartoon and hence I'm being childish. Sometimes, they even display sarcastic attitudes, so that giving a serious ...

On the latest podcast, they were talking about Anime.SE and they didn't like that question.
They joked about creating an account to delete it too. lol
 
Lol. I agree. I think it's not constructive and I think we should close it rather than delete it, in case a similar situation pops up in the future.
What do you all think?
 
I'd say close. And perhaps we should evaluate the possibility of a historic lock to protect it from being deleted in the future.
 
10:54 PM
@Mysticial How does one do a historic lock?
 
I'd say double-check with some other more experienced moderators to see if a historic lock is appropriate.
@Krazer It's one of the lock options.
Should be under the mod tools.
But I've never been a mod anywhere so I don't know where it is.
 
@Mysticial I see it. Thanks.
 
There are several locking options.
A normal lock prevents the question from being voted on and answered.
A historic lock freezes the entire question and all its answers. Nothing can be voted on or edited, or even flagged.
 
Ok. I've permanently locked this question.
 
Historic lock is mainly for preserving old high-voted questions that are not on-topic, but doesn't deserved to be deleted.
@Krazer Cool. I think it's appropriate. But pay attention to meta to see if anyone speaks out against it.
 
10:58 PM
@Mysticial Will do. thanks for the advice.
 
Normal locks (the non-historical ones) are usually to stop content-disputes.
 
oy
 
@Krazer it seems to be
 
Welcome back. Nice job with the FAQ.
 
11:03 PM
@JNat @Krazer try not to argue or contradict each other on posts or comments
Keep it professional and in chat/TL
 
@MadaraUchiha Duly noted.
 
@MadaraUchiha same here
 
If that question is being locked (which I don't disagree with), there should probably be an answer on my Meta question about it a while back
 
Yeah... even though moderator isn't really a 'leader' per-se... they do get taken way too seriously by the peasantry. Reality is, of course, that the community team actually "runs" these sites, mods just make their lives a bit easier.
 
6
Q: Is "What differentiates anime from regular cartoons?" off-topic?

Logan MWhat differentiates anime from regular cartoons? has been closed twice as off-topic and reopened both times, and hasn't changed much over that period. Rather than vote to close it again (and eventually reopen it again), I think we should discuss here on meta why we think it should be considered o...

 
11:06 PM
Now that we have more people here, who is for or against the historic lock on that anime vs. cartoon question?
 
@Mysticial Lets start with the fact that it should be a content dispute one until it's resolved.
As for the reasons for the lock
I actually think this is an on-topic question.
 
@MadaraUchiha Then go ahead and add a notification to the question.
 
@MadaraUchiha @Krazer tell me something, questions asking for lists are not constructive, right?
 
Or change the lock reason to content dispute.
 
@JNat They 99% of the case aren't.
 
11:08 PM
^^
 
@JNat Generally speaking, they're discouraged across the whole network. There's an issue of "answerability"
We had to quash a few dozen of them, back at the start of JLU
 
Because only one answer can exist, and that answer is likely to grow to monsterous sizes and not be useful at all.
 
It can be done. And the only times they tend to work is if the list has only 1 thing.
 
@JNat Yes. As it has been discussed in this meta.
 
"Please can I haz a list of all words that mean 'toilet'"
 
11:09 PM
@jkerian Oh God.
Well, regarding the Cartoons vs Anime question
Anyone besides me thinks it's actually an on-topic question?
 
@Krazer the thing is that new user "didn't ask for recommendations", as he puts it, but rather for a list explicitly
 
@MadaraUchiha It's on-topic. But it's the constructiveness that's being debated.
 
@JNat which is technically a recommendation, don't you think?
 
@JNat It's just a different way of asking for functionally the same thing. The question still has all the flaws of a recommendation question,
 
@JNat If it's at all possible, edit that question into an answerable form and reopen it.
That'll encourage him to come back.
 
11:11 PM
@Krazer yeah, I think it is a recommendation, but both the OP and DeidaraSenpai seem to be bothered by the fact that we 'do not care about the original intent of the question'
 
ONE questionable question at a time, folks This is getting confusing
 
@Mysticial I do not see how it is
 
@jkerian We settled on locking the Anime vs. cartoon question for now.
Locking as "content dispute"
 
ahh... okay
(we did?)
 
@MadaraUchiha I think it is both on-topic and constructive
 
11:12 PM
Which IMO is totally appropriate because we're still debating whether it's on-topic and constructive.
But the lock serves the purpose of telling people that the question is indeed controversial.
 
@jkerian I think we're postponing discussing it since the zombie one is more immediate
 
@JNat Makes two of us.
@jkerian I did
Until we resolve it,
 
or maybe not after all
 
@MadaraUchiha I believe the issue is that the answerer should be disciplined and stick to 'technical details'
 
@LoganM Zombies one is definitely not constructive, period. I don't see any way to really improve it without changing the meaning, and since the core of the question is problematic, I won't vote to reopen it.
 
11:14 PM
@MadaraUchiha instead of the usual 'cartoons are for kids and anime for adults'
@MadaraUchiha I fullheartedly agree
 
@MadaraUchiha Agreed. I see no way to improve the question without changing what it is asking for.
 
Therefore, the question will remain closed.
 
I agree with keeping it closed. However, it's possible to answer it with one CW answer.
 
If the OP feels that he can improve it, and the community has shown interest to reopen it, I will not object.
@Mysticial I don't think it's a good idea.
The question isn't really unanswerable, it is prone to change should new information is revealed, and will become less and less useful the more it's bloated.
 
@Mysticial Resources list... with a link to anidb? (or whatever the kids are using these days?)
 
11:17 PM
You can technically answer it, but I don't think there's a place for it in the site.
Besides, you and I both know that a question of this type on Stack Overflow would be not only closed, but also deleted in less than 10 minutes.
 
I didn't say we should do it. I'm just saying that it's possible - albeit very high maintenance.
And I'd vote against doing it actually.
 
A general resource list, in collaboration with the community is a good post to have
Because it's worth the maintenance, and will remain useful as long as the navigation is clear.
 
I suspect there are many websites out there that are better equipped to catalogue all anime by genre than AnM (AM?... AaM?)
 
@MadaraUchiha But are be going to be able to maintain it?
 
However, on such a specific question, on a specific series, we just can't afford to do it
 
11:19 PM
@MadaraUchiha something like this?
 
At the size we are right now, I don't think we can.
 
Otherwise, the next question will be "What are all of the fire element techniques with rank B or above?"
@Mysticial I'm saying that in the future we will be able to have it.
 
@MadaraUchiha That could work, if it's for a specific show and there are only a finite # of levels.
 
@Mysticial Sure it could work
But it's not worth the maintenance.
 
@MadaraUchiha Yeah... I guess I don't see what's wrong with that question, as long as the list is known to be finite (and reasonably sized)
Put it this way... that question is fine, as soon as the show & manga are both done
 
11:21 PM
@MadaraUchiha Actually, if we narrow it like that, it's very answerable. Something like "Who are all the level 5's in the Index/Railgun Universe?"
That would be answerable and constructive question.
Since there's only like 8 of them.
 
(I'm assuming it's a Naruto-universe question... so it may be totally inappropriate in any case... I only watched 1-2 episodes of that show)
 
@Mysticial Thing is, the OP doesn't know how answerable and constructive his question is, until it's closed.
We need to draw the line.
 
@MadaraUchiha Are we still talking about the zombie question?
That one should stay closed.
 
There's a long standing policy over the entire network against list questions.
 
@Mysticial I thought there were only 7 officially
 
11:23 PM
@Mysticial I think that's the same in principle as anime.stackexchange.com/questions/820/…, which I guess is okay (not amazing, but not terrible either). And Bleach isn't even done.
 
@MadaraUchiha Only if the list is endless and keeps changing. If there's only a small fixed number of them, then it's fine. Put it all in one answer, and it's done.
@Krazer I read somewhere that one of them died prior to events in both shows.
 
@Mysticial Again, the OP might not know how constructive his question is.
I guess it's worth a second thought
 
@MadaraUchiha If the list is indeed endless, then we close it.
"What is a list of all Anime with fan-service?" -> close
"Who are all the level 5's in the Index/Railgun Universe?" -> keep
simple as that
of course there's a line somewhere in the middle
 
@Mysticial We'll need to draw that line.
 
But I think in most cases, it'll be pretty clear-cut to anyone who has seen the show.
 
11:26 PM
@MadaraUchiha Not really... it's actually okay for it to be a little bit fuzzy
As long as it's understood that "The question has to be answerable", then it's fine
 
When the line is fuzzy, the mods usually stay out and let everyone else decide.
 
I think also it may make a difference if the list is in-universe or out-of-universe. I can't imagine a good question asking for a list of anime, but a list of things in a particular anime can make a good question.
 
Or at least a mod with an opinion would only cast the 4th or 5th vote.
 
@LoganM That's a very good point
 
@LoganM Agreed. Once you limit it to a single Anime - (maybe not the long-running ones) it limits the scope enough to be constructive.
 
11:28 PM
@LoganM That too can get out of hand
"What are all of the water element techniques in Naruto?"
There are dozens, if not hundreds.
 
@MadaraUchiha Don't forget that you come from PHP, and your line is probably a lot, should I say "different" from ours.
 
@Mysticial Point taken.
 
Limited lists with only a few items will work. And they have worked.
 
9
Q: What is the definition of a list question?

Steven JeurisAfter an extensive discussion in chat I've come to the conclusion there are some unclarities relating to list questions. In an attempt to tackle this problem in a more constructive format I first want to address a seamingly "simple" issue. What is a list question? I'm not interested in discussi...

Related ^
 
@MadaraUchiha Well, like I said, "maybe not the long running shows".
 
11:30 PM
@Mysticial "What are the rules of the Death Note"?
 
@MadaraUchiha I'd say that's answerable.
 
Yes, there are a lot of them. But the show is done, and it won't change.
 
I think the key is the rate of change
 
@MadaraUchiha I didn't say that every in-universe list question is good. The borderline is fuzzy, but I think it's clear cut that every out-of-universe list question is going to be bad.
 
11:31 PM
It doesn't really matter in-universe vs out-of-universe
The point is if the list is prone to change
We're gonna have a bad time.
out-of-universe questions are always prone to change
 
If the list is prone to change, then it should either be closed out-right. Or if we can handle the maintenance, let one answer go wiki. But I don't particularly recommend this second option.
 
Aight folks, I need to go now
 
Definitely not right now.
 
Way past my bedtime.
 
Hypothetical... what do you think of "What are all the zombie-related anime movies made in the 90s?" - not prone to change...
 
11:33 PM
night
 
I trust you to make the right decision, keep me posted.
 
@MadaraUchiha I imagine "What are all the robot anime from the 90s" isn't acceptable even though it's not going to change.
 
@LoganM twins!
 
@jkerian I'd argue that's not constructive unless there's a very clear cut definition of "zombie" anime.
 
Tomorrow if possible, I'd like to review a more important subject.
How to get more people and more traffic to the site.
 
11:34 PM
And even then, the list is potentially huge.
 
@MadaraUchiha Yeah, we need to think hard about that
 
Very hard
 
@MadaraUchiha Agreed. I have some ideas about it. But I won't be able to pull it off alone.
 
Constructiveness or not, if we don't get enough critical mass, we'll be shut down
But that's for tomorrow.
 
@MadaraUchiha fo shizzle
 
11:35 PM
@Mysticial Does it involve embedding the site URLs into digits of PI?
 
And I'm serious here. I've been known for attracting large crowds on SO. We can probably do the same on Anime.SE.
 
Do we have a time (hopefully sooner than now) where everyone's here at the same time?
 
@jkerian no :)
 
@Mysticial I was thinking about IRC
 
@MadaraUchiha I'm thinking about Reddit.
 
11:36 PM
freenode has some pretty serious anime channels
Reddit's a good possibility too
 
We should schedule an site event for this
 
I don't have an acc there though
 
@Krazer Do it. I'm not room owner so I can't.
 
Any 'mericans here?
 
@MadaraUchiha me
 
11:36 PM
@MadaraUchiha I do.
@MadaraUchiha I'm EST
 
I don't have an account on Reddit either.
 
That's -7
 
Keep in mind that our site has to be ready to handle a lot of traffic if we're posting on places like reddit
 
@LoganM That's not a problem.
 
@LoganM We have users experienced from Stack Overflow
That's the least of our problems.
 
11:37 PM
@MadaraUchiha I have -1 than you, right?
 
All the sites share the same bandwidth.
 
@JNat I'm +2
 
I am gmt!
 
I've had one of my answers pick up 40k+ views in a single day.
 
I am the 0
 
11:38 PM
@MadaraUchiha I'm also EST
 
I propose 2100UTC
tomorrow
 
@MadaraUchiha what is utc?
 
England time
 
@MadaraUchiha I should be able to do it if I'm not still in my school's job fair.
 
@MadaraUchiha so it's me too
 
11:39 PM
Or we could do it on the weekend
 
@MadaraUchiha We don't all have to be there.
It's just a brainstorming session.
 
I'm in class Tuesdays and Thursdays at that time, but other days would be fine
 
We aren't making any decisions yet.
 
I want that most of us are here
 
I'd say we have at least several brainstorming sessions before we decide to do anything.
 
11:40 PM
Agree
 
@Mysticial I meant in terms of mods being able to deal with a surge of new questions. I'm pretty sure the site itself will be fine.
 
Oh cool. Thanks.
@LoganM We're fine on that.
 
@LoganM That's why there's 3 of us :)
 
It doesn't take 3 moderators to clean up all the shit that pours in. Just protect the problematic questions and it's done.
 
11:41 PM
@LoganM Worst case scenario, we summon Jon Skeet.
 
New users won't have enough rep anyway.
 
I can be here both tomorrow at 2100 UTC and on the weekend
 
So 2100 UTC it is?
 
If most of us are able to be here
Ideally all 3 mods should
@Krazer
 
11:43 PM
Looking at my schedule for tomorrow
 
Anyways, I have a night class starting in 15 min. So BBL.
 
@Krazer busy guy eh? :)
 
@Mysticial Aight
@Krazer That's 1600EST
 
@MadaraUchiha I just wanted to make sure to block it off so I don't get a surprise meeting.
 
@Krazer Sure thing
 
11:45 PM
I should be okay.
 
@Krazer tomorrow at 2100 UTC it is!
 
Madara Uchiha has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
I've scheduled it as a repeating event, I hope to make it so
Wouldn't hurt
 
Now that that's out of the way, what did we decide about cartoons?
 
Well fellas, now I'm really off to bed
 
11:48 PM
@MadaraUchiha cya :)
 
good night :)
 
37 mins ago, by Mysticial
Locking as "content dispute"
 
@Krazer That's just temporary, though. Eventually someone (presumably the mods) will have to decide whether to reopen it, close it, historical lock it, or delete it. When that happens someone should post an answer to my meta question about this question explaining the decision.
No rush though. I don't really care about this question individually, but it does set a precedent either way you decide.
 
@LoganM I think it is both constructive and on-topic, provided that the answerer does not drift into subjective answers. I believe a lot of good answers can arise from that question
 

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