@PearsonArtPhoto I was wondering if you've checked the Subject Index to Correspondence and Case Files of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, 1903-1952. (NARA microfilm publication T458). Ancestry has it online now, searchable by name (although not everyone is listed by name on the index cards).

search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=1946

It's not a complete list of naturalizations -- it's a subject guide to the case files where immigrants corresponded with the government (sometimes years after their arrivals).

I've searched Ancestry, but not by specific record.

Marian Smith at USCIS has done a series of webinars about her finding aid for these index cards. If you'd like to download her guide, see the webinars page at USCIS here: uscis.gov/HGWebinars and look for the "Your Questions" webinar.

She said we could log in even though the webinar isn't active if we needed to download the three documents she has given as handouts for the webinars.

I think your best bet would be doing an index search there. If you had a document, you could submit a question for the "Your Questions" webinar, but your problem is that you can't find any. :(

BUT if your great-grandfather ever wrote and asked for USCIS to give him a certificate of entry (for proof of age, if he needed to apply for benefits) he could be in the T-458 index somewhere.

Yeah, not seeing anything there.

I think he still showed up as an alien in 1940. If you've lived in the country for 30 years and aren't a citizen...

Have you searched the catalog at NARA?

P.S. if you search T-458, his full name might not be on the card -- it could be surname only (or not at all).

I think an index search at USCIS is the way to go -- if he's got an A-file it would show up.

I went to the DC NARA and looked there.

Can't remember off the top of my head what the cutoff date is for those files being sent to NARA.

Part of the problem I have is not knowing which name to search, the name he had after he entered the US, or before.

The records I looked at NARA were the immigration index records, by port, looking at the microfilms.

When I submitted my question for the webinar, Marian wanted to see if my person had files at USCIS, so she asked me for all the names I had for her. As far as I know, you can submit all the variants you know for your search, you just pay one fee per person.

Also wondering if your G-grandfather came in via Canada and then came to US from there.

(Yes I know the family story is different.)

I doubt it.

My grandfather said he came in via one of the mid-atlantic ports.

He worked to travel here.

The other thing Marian mentioned today in the webinar is sometimes your immigrant isn't in the T-458 index with their own name. The file might be listed under a family member's name. (her example -- someone writing to ask for his mother-in-law to be admitted so he could take care of her won't have the mother-in-law's name). So you could try searching T-458 by other names (anyone in the family or FAN).

Just trying to think of ways you could search not by his name since that hasn't been productive for you so far.

It's a crapshoot, but who knows?

Pity he didn't come through Philadelphia because they have better records than most other ports.

Interesting...

Philadelphia could be the case...

I suspect Baltimore, or Carolinas, however.

The one thing that was made very clear is it wasn't NY.

Philadelphia didn't throw out their BSI hearing files.

So everyone who had people coming in that way can find all sorts of goodies.

Well, not everyone, but ...

Interesting...

She has found a couple of cases where people actually were stowaways, and showed us what happened to them.

If you have time to catch the YQ webinars, they are a blast. Next one is in two months.

Just wanted to mention these guides because the index system can be complicated. The more you know the records, the easier it is to spot a clue.

I realize now that when I was searching the T-458 index I had no idea what I was doing, and would have missed the file, if there had been one.

If your great-grandfather had any kind of insurance policy, you could look for the name of the company in the T-458 index. There are tons of files of the insurance company asking INS for proof of age, of if they know the whereabouts of the people.

It seems that I could take a trip to NARA at DC and possibly find some records.

Yes, but why not look at the index via Ancestry first (at the library if you don't have a sub)?

I could look at the Central Office (CO) subject files

And some of the files indexed in T-458 aren't at NARA yet, they're still at USCIS.

I do have a sub, and access to a bunch of places that have it for free as well, libraries and otherwise.

There's actually not that many by the last name, hmmm...

The maddening thing about these three webinars is that you can't know if your people are in there sometimes -- until you find them. Because T-458 is a subject index. But if they are, you can hit the jackpot.

If you want the guides and you can't get them out of the Adobe Connect room, let me know and I can share them or send them somehow.

I'll look in to it more when I have more time, so...

Just an idea. Gotta go, thanks for chatting.

Thanks for the ideas!

You keep me motivated to keep looking!