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8:09 AM
Which one is better if you need to bulk insert in DB. Insert each one separately using loop? or create one single large query?
 
8:23 AM
@Sisir batch insert
 
8:37 AM
definitely batch insert unless you want to hammer the hell out of your database
 
there are more into it though.. like checked if the data already exists etc..
 
sidenote: we are at 90 close votes in the queue. if you guys could check some...
hint: closing stuff is especially awesome during your morning coffee.
 
bah... the main site has logged me out, how annoying
 
ran out of cookie
 
how did that happen?
 
8:47 AM
the cookie should not have expired, and i am already in chat... strange
hmm maybe because i was developing a firefox addon, that may have stuffed things
 
Network > Clear cookies? Yes! ... how the heck did I just log out?
 
9:08 AM
Hey people, do you use something for invoices? I should refactor my custom app, but I think I may have a better weekend if there is already something good...
 
@G.M. I use two Freshbooks and my Freshbooks clone.. if you want something to get up immediately, Freshbooks or Freeagent (freeagent.com) are worth a look - there are many more in this space too, not just aforementioned.
 
It's funny, I though Free Agent is free at first look but it is not :)
 
Google Docs :) I got crazy legal requirement for invoice to be in two languages
 
@Sisir me too
 
@Sisir ha! no such thing...
 
9:14 AM
I just shoot email saying, Hey! Pay Me!
 
SERPs for "open source invoice"
 
@Sisir if you want to send an invoice now without having to login you can try: betterinvoices.com
 
Invoice Ninja is available on GitHub, built with Laravel and looks slick from their page
 
Only reason I wrote a Freshbooks clone (laravel) is because I didn't want to pay for their middle tier plan...
 
@userabuser good one.. plain and simple. bookmarked..
 
9:17 AM
@kaiser nice never heard of that
 
The GUI looks really sweet. Like that.
And I'm pretty sure that it's easy to get rid of their logo.
Even fully responsive. Click in the client field - that's awesome.
 
@kaiser this is the one thing that shit me off about freshbooks, not responsive, so I put mine on bootstrap to help
@kaiser is this pure SaaS or download version too?
 
sorry missed that
 
Just learned something new: self vs. static...
 
9:32 AM
really?
confused, you learned something new about it or just now learning about it?
 
Learned that static will refer to child.
public function referToChild() { return static::foo(); } // Refers to extending foo() method
public function referToParent() { return self::foo(); } // Refers to current/parent class method
Didn't know that.
 
any day you learn something new is a good day!
going to install invoice ninja shortly to check out their schema since they are using laravel too - good find
 
Loving angularJS, I am still noob doing hiding and showing DOM elements but this is way lot easier then jQuery
 
you should have chosen Ember over Angular
 
chosen angular because it is from google..
 
9:45 AM
@userabuser thanks! Invoice Ninja eems very nice. My app is build on Laravel 2... 1st app I built with Laravel to learn it :) I really don't want to use something on 3rd party server... that's the reason why I write my app
 
@kaiser I remember testing it but there was something severely wrong or missing. Just can't remember what is was. :) Currently using gsales.de
 
@G.M. I felt the same way, luckily some of the good invoice apps also provide good APIs so you can pipe your data into your app
 
@kaiser yes, first time I learned that I was happy. Also new static create an instance of extending class, useful from static methods.
 
@kraftner No idea what it was? :)
 
@userabuser yes, sure. But good invoice apps are not really cheap
 
9:51 AM
I know ha... that's why I wrote mine, didn't want to pay $30/$40 p/m to bill people
 
exactly
 
The free plan on Freshbooks only allows 3 clients, which is a pain!
 
I looked at siwapp, but it's broken
 
gosh, your problems, guys... this year I sent like grand of three invoices across two clients :D
 
I think it was the lack of proper templating for invoices plus I wanted a way to create offers and then transform them into invoices all with one tool.
 
9:53 AM
@Rarst not everyone has two million dollar clients like you :D
 
riiight, sure :) I just have more of life style business. or would that be nolifestyle business?
 
hehe yeah sometimes hard to distinguish, we say "lifestyle" but could very well be "nolifestyle" sometimes
 
Really nice code at invoice ninja... Or it's just too long time I don't look at non-WP code :D
 
I had last year off if you remember and this one was tad chaotic :) not to mention country crap :( will see what next year brings...
 
Nice thing with Laravel is that I know exactly where to look for what, even after just cloned the repo
 
9:57 AM
@G.M. some of it is, some of it isn't... actually why you probably think that is because its on Laravel... which is just a killer framework now
 
what are basic distinctions between Laravel and Symfony?
 
well, I guess so. Actually after 2 months on only WP every modern framework code seems great
 
@G.M. oh, that's nice. thanks!
 
Also Invoice Ninja is unit based which doesn't really make sense for services, no dunning features, no way to comment on invoices or any other meta value, no custom fields,...
 
@Rarst Laravel uses lots of Symfony stuff under the hood, but has own IoC concept and Blade as templating engine.
 
10:00 AM
@Rarst easyness for me
 
@G.M. you call things easy I run away screaming from :P
 
@G.M. agree... its getting better and better, if you are interested in Laravel 5 coming up here are some nice posts: mattstauffer.co/blog/ and this one on the new dir structure: mattstauffer.co/blog/…
 
I run away form Symfony, I even buyed Symfony book
 
@Rarst you already built stuff on Silex. Symfony and Laravel are actually even easier due to config stuff.
 
@kraftner yeah I just realized that, was digging for custom fields - can't see them
 
10:01 AM
but no way
 
and I used Silex mostly not to deal with config :)
 
Laravel is too simple imo
 
@userabuser @kraftner Just hook in. You got routes, you got RouteControllers and Services.
 
As someone said Laravel is just Silex with a bunch of service provider already registered
 
@kaiser I think the initial question was llooking for something ready made you do not need to work on a lot yourself ;)
 
10:03 AM
I want to try October, but don't have use case either
 
if the framework is good though, should be considered...
 
@Rarst same for me. Even if that in-page configuration doesn't seem so great like first time I looked there
 
At least to me when it comes to critical stuff like invoices, finance,... I prefer something well built, tested and proven. But might just be me.
 
@kraftner shut up and go look up Forms API for Laravel ;)
 
which is why Invoice Ninja uses
so many ninja products o_O
 
10:08 AM
Internet became NinjaNet
3
 
haha
 
:D If I have to complain aboot Ninja Forms is for the name
 
:-P Doesn't really matter. It is about building it yourself. I've only heard great things about Laravel.
 
Going to send a PR for real Italian translation, current seems made with Google translate
 
@G.M. I normally boycott any product that has ninja or woo in their names
@G.M. looks like it
 
10:15 AM
@userabuser just looked through the code. that's not really kool.
 
@kaiser didn't poke around code yet just like the sound of form fields being their own models (we use the same kind of approach) - anything that you see which is not good?
 
lots of edge case handling
 
FormerObject->render() example: $isButton = ($this instanceof Field) ? $this->isButton() : false;
and tons of abstract and therefore extending on top of DI stuff
 
why on earth is that in render
 
10:18 AM
because they did not consider buttons. that's the problem when you try to build forms from their visual approach and map functions and objects to UI output.
there's other crappy code in there as well
$this->form = $this->app->bound('former.form') ? $this->app['former.form'] : null;
when a property isn't set, it's null no matter what...
look at that:
abstract class Field extends FormerObject implements FieldInterface
(...)
public function __call($method, $parameters)
    (...)
    if (method_exists($this->group, $method) or Str::startsWith($method, 'onGroup')) {
        (...)
        $method = str_replace('onGroup', '', $method);
        $method = lcfirst($method);
        call_user_func_array(array($this->group, $method), $parameters);
    // (else)
    parent::__call($method, $parameters);
 
wah
 
Now tell me what you get.
 
twice the fucking magic thats what you get
 
IoC/DI container > abstract extend as Trait > magic method > method name builder > parent of parent ... brain goes boom
That's a bit overarchitectured.
 
I just had to see parent::__call inside call to know that is problem
 
10:28 AM
The Former main controller uses the MethodDispatcher class in its __call() method to route object builds. See getClassFromMethod() with foreach and switch for edge cases.
 
don't like living on the edge?
that was a let down :|
 
not even the song
 
I just need add easier abstraction layer / declarative array syntax sugar to AstroFields and im all set...
 
Working on it right now. That's the reason I looked into the source of Former :)
 
nice, I think im watching the repo so should get notification
 
10:33 AM
By now I added a devbox and fixed the basic stuff. Put it on Packagist for easier updates, but it's not yet ready to use. Trying to generalize stuff atm.
 
all in good time
are you making completely standalone too or still coupled to WP?
 
What's working right now is the MetaBox stuff. Still I'm not satisfied with the API. @G.M. and you have given me too much valuable feedback to keep it in its current state.
And no, it won't be standalone - I guess.
Maybe per accident :)
 
what is some of the feedback that will make it into new changes?
 
Ok, I looked through core and by now there is not a single LOC that depends on WP. Ha!
@userabuser easier API
And I want to generalize everything to be nothing more than an observable Entity that has Commands attached.
Ah, ok. I was wrong. The dispatcher obviously has a call to add_filter()
One would have to mock this and attach it to something like Kernel Events, a Template Engine or similar stuff.
 
10:55 AM
@HelpingHands Please stop adding the wordpress.org tag to questions. It does not add any value. Thanks.
 
11:06 AM
@kaiser you can create a couple of classes that implements SplObserver/ SplSubject and wrap add_filter in it. That will make system standalone, where WP implementation is only one of the possible.
 
@G.M. That's pretty much what it currently is. Slightly unsure what you mean by "wrap add_filter() in it" tough.
 
Well, let's asume add_filter is called inside a class method. This class has only that method or just a couple. It implements an interface and is passed to Dispatcher. By writing another implementation (it's simple because just one method) you can make system standalone. @kaiser
 
You mean a Proxy Class that does nothing than add_filter() wrapping for the dispatcher?
Well, that doesn't sound too stupid...
 
I don't remember how dispatcher works actually. As alternative you can create a decorator to make dispacher use WP system or any other event system.
If a single add_filter is all make it WP dependant, I guess make it fully standalone will be pretty easy.
 
@kaiser - Okay..sure.
 
11:19 AM
Thanks
 
 
1 hour later…
12:26 PM
@toscho saw you going to WordCamp Prague? I got pinged about speaking, but probably too soon after Norway
 
@Rarst yes, I will speak about making code multisite compatible.
 
anyone going to Norway? it's my favorite so far :)
 
when is that?
 
February 7-8
 
ah, just found it
very close
 
12:30 PM
yep. especially for me with visa stuff...
 
on the pro site: you wouldn't have to travel very far
I'm on my laptop - German keyboard layout, cannot type with that anymore
 
my shortlist so far is Norway, London, and Europe
 
Prague is a beautiful city, I will be there some days earlier to spend some time alone.
 
yep, I was in Prague before :)
 
they want to have 50% English talks. That's just me so far. :)
and I don't really speak English
 
12:42 PM
 
I prefer all-english WordCamps so far...
@kaiser that's this year, next one is 2015
 
ha
good catch :)
> Thomas Sholz – Programování pro multisites.
@toscho seems like "no English" won't be a problem. Have to talk in Czech anyway :D
 
12:55 PM
@toscho Is it only on the 28th?
 
I guess so.
 
Do you know if they still accept talk submissions?
 
yes, very likely
 
@toscho thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
anu
3:02 PM
If you use composer to handle 3rd party plugins, is it possible to split between plugins only needed in development (eg query-monitor) and plugins needed for production site?
 
require-dev ?..
 
anu
ah ok
so on production site i'd need to run composer install --no-dev
ok, that's pretty cool
cheers
 
enjoy :)
 
 
3 hours later…
6:01 PM
Call for speakers for WordCamp London 2015: http://2015.london.wordcamp.org/call-for-speakers/ #wcldn #wpldn
submitted talk to #wcldn : Using Dependency Injection to Build Your Jedi Army
:)
 
 
1 hour later…
7:38 PM
@lkraav It's only possible to get on an upgrade list;
> (...) our goal is to be ready in less than one month.
 
 
3 hours later…
10:40 PM
LabelableInterface ... great name. Open for suggestions for a better name :P
 

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