The Loop

1:48 AM

this is not on topic whoever declined my flag, has nothing to do with WordPress apart from him wanting to use the content in WordPress after using an external library to modify the content that comes in via RPC, wordpress.stackexchange.com/questions/47179/…

...he isn't even asking for a WordPress plugin, goes straight for a PHP library; I would agree if the question was "How would I integrate a library/service to inject block styles into inline style attributes with WordPress XML-RPC? This is what I've tried, this is what didn't work, this is what worked."

"The library is all i need, I already know where to integrate it." (c) OP

toscho

@Soulseekah I declined the flag.

I’d rather wait for close votes.

Soulseekah

Well I'm sorry, I haven't earned enough points yet to cast votes, flags is all I got; if it's been declined I assume no-one else will see it.

Couldn't the flag be pending until you decide or something?

toscho

@Soulseekah Open flags are pure evil. :)

Let’s wait until tuesday. Most high rep users aren’t active over the weekend.

Soulseekah

...yeh, I just don't understand why the flag wasn't helpful, that's all.

Broke my helpful flag streak.

It's 8AM in the morning and I'm sad now :D

It's not like the question was going to be closed and deleted because of my flag...

toscho

2:07 AM

@Soulseekah I have a declined flag too. You’re incomplete without. :D

Soulseekah

Hahahah :D I guess you're right

...off to bed, talk to you all later, have a great week ahead.

Rarst

6:37 AM

@toscho only decline flags when they are completely bonkers, if it makes sense mark as helpful even if you don't take any immediate action on it

Brady

7:23 AM

morning all

Rarst

hi

Brady

8:09 AM

Still got this stinking cold :(

toscho

9:09 AM

@Rarst Yeah, I read about this tonight. Someone should have send this to me earlier. :)

Rarst

11:07 AM

hm... weird... same site (non-local), logged in same account... Opera shows toolbar, Firefox doesn't... either I am missing something stupid or someone introduced some weeeeird bug

toscho

11:17 AM

@Rarst Aggressive Adblock in Firefox blocking the **Ad**min bar?

Rarst

@toscho no adblock... just a dev browser, I won't use Firefox otherwise

toscho

Ouch!

Hey @Tweetdeck A bug in your software has given me access to hundreds of accounts. #YouShouldLookIntoThat /cc @Twitter http://t.co/9UsLgnN9

Tweeted by gevason on March 30, 2012 at 6:23 PM

In Facebook I can’t even use my own account.

Rarst

seems to have been some weird cookie issue, scrubbed everything to clean slate and bar shows now after login

Soulseekah

11:54 AM

Good time of day, all.

@toscho, so did Tweetdeck provide any update other than "Tweetdeck is down for maintenance..." and "Tweetdeck is back up, thanks for your patience"?

It was probably a server-side bug then.

A startup saves $100,000 by dropping support for IE http://tcrn.ch/HC4jb4

Tweeted by sixrevisions on April 2, 2012 at 12:05 PM

toscho

12:37 PM

@Soulseekah Look at the date.

Soulseekah

March 30th, I guess it was April 1st for them, no? :D

hmm there's still 31st

toscho

techcrunch.com/2012/04/01/bootstrapped-startup-saves-over-100k-by-dropping-ie/

Oh, it’s real.

Soulseekah

Oh I thought you were referring to the Tweetdeck thing you mentioned earlier

Rarst

12:52 PM

+0 -213 that's what I call a productive commit :)

Soulseekah

1:03 PM

:D ahahah

Sagive SEO

3:38 PM

:) hehe its about time websites start dropping that browser

Brady

@SagiveSEO why?

In the example above; IE is not supported simply because the technologies they use in their software dont function on IE.

Soulseekah

They didn't bother to make them function, saving them lots of time and money.

w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Brady

No different like saying our software only runs on windows

we cannot be bothered writing a linux or mac version

Soulseekah

And "losing out" a mere 19% of the market

Makes sense, if 19% is what they're ready to lose then so be it

As for Linux, that's a tiny percentage of users, often times it's just not worth it

Brady

@Soulseekah I'm not arguing that

Soulseekah

3:48 PM

if IE was 90% they would have never abandoned it

Brady

@Soulseekah notice I said linux and mac

Soulseekah

Adobe doesn't like those two together, makes no sense

Brady

@Soulseekah Again im not arguing that... Im arguing the case saying everyone should just drop IE because they did

Soulseekah

Of course, it depends, you either invest $100,000 for 19% of IE users or don't

Brady

If you build a website in a technology that IE supports then why say no to IE...

Soulseekah

3:50 PM

Exactly, you don't think about it

You don't care, but when it's big money, etc. and you're a big startup or something

Sagive SEO

@brady its hard as a website designer to love internet explorer

Brady

@SagiveSEO no its not. you just got to know IE's limits

Sagive SEO

@brady i cant count the times i have cursed internet explorer becouse it needs a css file just for special him... i would think that a company like microsoft could create a better browser

Soulseekah

Cross-compatibility has always been a nightmare

That's why I always stay out of it all, too impatient

Brady

@SagiveSEO In the past yes I use to be the same. But now I know IE and what its capable of I dont have those issues

Soulseekah

3:53 PM

I like Lynx

EAMann

Unfortunately, a lot of people still use IE. I'd rather spend my time building a great customer experience and catering to the existing behaviors of my users than trying to force them to adopt a browser they don't already use.

Particularly when they're non-tech-savvy Windows users who equate "The Internet" with the IE icon on their desktop.

Brady

@EAMann so true

Soulseekah

haahah @EAMann 19% IE and falling

Sagive SEO

@brady you are right... but.. i guess i am overloaded with information and just dont think and dont want to learn internet explorer limitations but that they just need to make it the same as chrome and firefox...

EAMann

@Soulseekah Maybe for the population in general ... not for my users.

Brady

3:54 PM

@Soulseekah depends what market you are designing for

Sagive SEO

@Soulseekah 19% really ??!! thats good news ;)

EAMann

They're currently at 85% IE

Soulseekah

VERY VERY Fortunately I don't get to design anything wheeew

Brady

@EAMann same here. most of my clients deal with business-to-business

business still stuck on XP and IE8

Sagive SEO

IE is the default browser when installing new windows so as long as windows which i love is the top operating system its hard to think IE would dissapear..

Brady

3:56 PM

@SagiveSEO no its not.... not any more

Soulseekah

they forced them to offer choice

Sagive SEO

@brady what do you mean?

Brady

When you launch IE for the first time it gives you the choice of browser to use

Sagive SEO

only if installed other's right ?

Brady

@SagiveSEO no

when you get a new copy of windows you launch IE and you get a prompt on what browser you want to use.

you can chose to stick with IE or select another to install and use

Sagive SEO

3:57 PM

ohh? really? didnt know that? havent installed in like a year

thats great!

Brady

EU fined MS many times for blocking out the competition by preinstalling so many pieces of software

so now MS gives users the choice to which browser

but in businesses it will always be IE and system adminitrators can control IE via group policies etc

something you cannot do with other browsers

So setting up proxy settings for the network etc etc

Soulseekah

"March 28, 2012: In response to a request from the CSU the City reported that it has already saved about 4 million euros in licensing costs as well as reduced the number of support calls" ~ golem.de/news/…

Brady

@Soulseekah yup MS licensing is where the money is :)

Sagive SEO

@brady Got to go.. cya (10x for the info)

Brady

engadget.com/2012/04/02/…

maybe to do with the ie9 marketing they have been doing recently

Soulseekah

4:06 PM

I don't get it why does w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp say their share is 19%

Stephen Harris

@Soulseekah Because it is, for them. Only more 'tech savvy' people are likely to be visiting their site

Soulseekah

Ahhhh, I see

Stephen Harris

@Soulseekah The first thing you do when you learn anything about the internet is to switch from IE :)

Soulseekah

For a long time I was sure that they gave out world-wide stats... oh well

Brady

@Soulseekah as Stephen says its all about your market. Business-to-consumer then your IE% will be around 35-50% Business-to-business %50+ and techy/graphic sites <20%

Soulseekah

4:12 PM

Yeh, makes sense of course

EAMann

4:42 PM

From the footer of that same stats page: "W3Schools is a website for people with an interest for web technologies. These people are more interested in using alternative browsers than the average user. The average user tends to the browser that comes preinstalled with their computer, and do not seek out other browser alternatives.

These facts indicate that the browser figures above are not 100% realistic. Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is a more popular browser.

So like I said, tech-savvy people will use better browsers and get a better experience. Average users won't. (When I think "average" user I imagine my parents ... who use IE, still have msn.com set at their homepage, and access their AOL email by typing "aol mail" in the bing search box ...)

Brady

@EAMann I still rock a @msn.com email address although I forward all mail to my gmail business apps account

and if I want to get to email I still type gmail in the address bar which is the same as search

EAMann

Depends on the browser ... in Chrome, "gmail" is a shortcut ...

Brady

yeah using chrome

EAMann

My parents (my go-to "average computer user" example) have IE, FF, Chome, and Safari installed. But they only know how to use IE.

I tell them to go to Google ... they open their home page (MSN) and type "google" in the Bing search box to get there.

I finally pointed out the address bar and said to type "google.com" there instead.

"Are you sure that's the right address?"

They use bookmarks exclusively to get to banking websites ... when they bought a new computer, they refused to use it because it didn't have any of their bookmarks.

Brady

@EAMann my mum :)

EAMann

4:56 PM

They wanted to get an iPad ... I talked them into an iPad 2 (rather than the new one) because it's $100 cheaper and I know they won't notice the difference in the display resolution.

They've had an HD TV for years and forget to switch it into HD mode ... can't tell the difference.

Perfect example of tech users who aren't tech-savvy :)

kaiser

5:46 PM

Just noticed that every div.updated p will automagically be moved below the h2-header in admin post screens. Hm... don't know what to think about this.

Transcript for