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Catija

4:19 AM

@apaul you here?

apaul

4:36 AM

@Catija What's up?

Catija

... you know I'm not one to be too prudish about stuff... but this one is a little worrying to me and I'm afraid the info might be a bit TMI: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/7951/…

apaul

@Catija Ya... Thought it was gonna be that lol

Catija

I mean, they presented the information in a way that's perfectly neutral and not graphic... which is good... I just don't know what more that level of specificity adds... but maybe it means more between gay men, so it's important?

apaul

@Catija I can kinda see it both ways (pun intended) being on the receiving side is a rather different emotional experience, particularly when it was his boss... Adds a whole extra level of vulnerability.

We do need to know what his goal is though.

Also, knowing if his partner knows and whether they're ok with it would be helpful.

Catija

Yeah. Feel free to add more to my comment if you like.

apaul

4:52 AM

@Catija As you may be aware, allowing someone inside you is a different experience... Penetrating vs being penetrated is very different psychologically and emotionally. Beyond socialization, I think that has a bit to do with why hetero men and women view sex differently... For straight men it's typically external so it's easier to be cavalier about it? Just a queer perspective on that whole thing.

Catija

That makes sense.

apaul

Feel free to tell me if I ever over share, I know I tend to be a little more open than some are comfortable with.

Catija

You're fine.

apaul

Oh ya, on a more personal note I'm going to the head shrinker on Wednesday... Couples counseling finally lined up. Little anxious about it, but I'm trying to withhold judgement.

lol, "more personal note" probably wasn't the best choice in words there, but you know what I mean.

Catija

OH! Interesting. With your ex wife?

apaul

5:06 AM

Wife, husband, partner? We're going with "partner" at the moment, but I tease them and call them "my lover" cause it sounds more inappropriate.

Catija

Yes. that.

apaul

Sorry, yes that

Catija

I say wife because I feel like you've referred to them as "wife" in the past.

(most often)

apaul

@Catija I have, because that's who they were to me through most of our past relationship.

They're growing into a new person and it's really great to get to know them again.

Catija

That should be interesting.

apaul

5:10 AM

It's messy and complicated, but it's still great.

Catija

As long as you're looking forward to the work, that seems like a good thing.

apaul

@Catija Oh, it's already been a lot of work

Loads of past stuff to unpack, and they were particularly unhappy with me seeing their ex...

Catija

More like your (plural) ex, though... right? Or did they stay together after you divorced? I think I remember you saying that... but maybe not...

apaul

@Catija Ya, she left and then they left to be with her, less than a week later. They were together for about a year after.

Catija

So does that mean your trip to the trippy thing is off?

apaul

5:19 AM

lolol

Dunno yet, but I hope not. They're both still pretty pissed off at each other, but I'm really hoping they can forgive each other and be friends again.

Catija

:P I hoped that would get a laugh.

apaul

I still value Laura's friendship quite a bit, and I think Marlis understands that. Shit being complicated doesn't mean that people are evil, shit just gets complicated sometimes. Life is strange and beautiful. Better to keep the rare good folks you meet around, they're few and far between.

Catija

But are you going to have to choose between them as a partner?

apaul

I already have

Laura wanted a less serious play partner sort of thing and I was still hopelessly devoted to Marlis...

Catija

Ah. That makes it easier, then.

apaul

5:28 AM

"easier" isn't the word I would pick.

Catija

Hm.... well, presumably you're still emotionally attached to them both, so even if one was a play partner, that might leave some disappointment.

apaul

It wasn't easy by a long shot, Marlis and I had a really hard relationship. Things with Laura were always light and fun... But she "liked me" she didn't "love me" she loved Marlis #poly problems

Catija

Ah. I see.

apaul

Still convinced that the reason I'm good at this "interpersonal skills thing" is because I'm so bad at it... Means I have a wide variety of crap experience to draw life lessons from lol

You do learn an awful lot about relationships and communication through the experience though. So that's something.

Catija

:D Heh. I don't know. I think that different people are good at it for different reasons.

apaul

5:41 AM

@Catija there's definitely truth in that. I just still trip over the thought that it would be easier to use the prescribed method... But then again I tried that and found it wanting.

Catija

@apaul The "prescribed" methods are usually lacking because they don't allow for people to be... well... people.

apaul

@Catija True.

Catija

If you follow the prescribed methods and the other person responds in kind, all goes well... but few people know them any more, so you can never expect the level of gentility that comes hand in hand with those methodologies.

apaul

When me and my partner met we were happy normal-ish Christians. I was hard into my getting my shit together phase after being released from jail, they were in community college trying to build a better life for their kids. I was doing the whole "found god behind bars" thing, no atheists in foxholes n all. Our first flirtations were exchanging Bible verses.

Life is strange and complicated...

Catija

:/

Sorry... I'm a super Athiest... not in the militant, I despise religion way... but in the "lots of religions treat people they don't like pretty shitty... so I really don't get the attraction"... way... I know a lot of amazing people from lots of different religions, so I absolutely know that they do have good people who are believers... it's... just not for me.

apaul

5:55 AM

I'm in the same boat these days

It was a hope to cling to when I needed it though, so I understand why people do it.

Catija

Yeah. Andy's sister is in AA and she's really getting a lot of the whole "God is your savior", trust in him... And I'm sure that's helpful but I really don't think it teaches you to look for your own strength.

apaul

Helped me kick hard drugs and helped me move past some really hard shit, so I don't hold people's imaginary friends against them... I guess I've been there, so I get it.

@Catija lol

Catija

But... I think that's why Andy and I can't really understand her... her dependency isn't something that we deal with... and I think that if you don't have that issue, you can't really understand it completely. I know that she's gone through some really shitty stuff in her life... but I also know that she's had a lot of chances.

apaul

That's what brought me through it. AA and recovery is great at getting you clean, but the dogma holds you back at a point. Gotta keep growing, dogma doesn't allow for that...

Catija

Yeah. Eventually you have to stand on your own.

apaul

6:05 AM

@Catija Give her time. AA is a great adventure. It really does help a great deal with those issues... Admittedly some people get stuck there, but they help a lot of people when they do.

Catija

How long is time? It's been... like 4-5 years, though she's had a couple of slips.

apaul

@Catija most people seem to "get it" after 4-10 years of being clean. There's a huge drop off in those years where people start living life again.

Kicking habits is a life changing thing...

Imagine finding something that seemingly solved all of your problems. Something that took all the pain away. No matter how painful those things were. Would it be easy to give that thing up?

For me putting opiates and opioids up my nose made losing a daughter something I could live with. Or at least something I could not feel for a little while. That's why people do it.

@Catija sorry for over sharing. Just saying that not feeling what you're feeling is an amazing draw. Some people get that through faith, some people get it through drugs, it's a very similar thing though. Unconditional forgiveness makes religion appealing. When you can't forgive yourself or others drugs get you through another day...

Catija

6:27 AM

@apaul Sorry, no... I'm distracted trying to get something set up for Jolene and I really need to be in bed, sleeping. Nothing to do with what you're posting.

apaul

@Catija No worries, you're doing the right thing.

apaul

5:08 PM

While the 'openness' of this question may be welcomed, I share the concern of @Catija. Looking at this from an 'equality' point of view can I ask: would the same level of detail be permitted if the OP were heterosexual? I refer to the expression "anal intercourse". Would a heterosexual male poster be permitted to describe which female orifice was penetrated during their intercourse? I'm sure that homosexual members of the community would want to be treated the same. — Astralbee 6 hours ago

@Catija I'm not sure if I should step in there... People seem to be reacting poorly.

Catija

@apaul Yeah. That's not really necessary on the question, it's an issue for meta, if anything.

apaul

@Catija nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/should-you-chime-in-on-this/…

Catija

HA HA

apaul

I may have to include that in the meta post...

Catija

Meta post?

apaul

5:22 PM

@Catija "Yeah. That's not really necessary on the question, it's an issue for meta, if anything."

Catija

Ah. Yeah. I wasn't sure if you were planning to ask one.

Though, to be honest, if it were a hetero couple, I'd think that mentioning anal vs vaginal would be more important if it were, in fact, anal...

apaul

@Catija Seems like something that should be addressed. Like nearly every queer related question draws a chime in from someone who has no idea what they're talking about.

apaul

6:00 PM

@Catija here goes: interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2249/…

Catija

Looks good.

@apaul I'm probably going to respond to it when I'm back from lunch if I have time.

apaul

@Catija Hopefully in a positive sort of way?

Catija

@apaul Yes. Also pointing out the comment you mentioned.

apaul

6:16 PM

@Catija cool thanks

Catija

I'm not sure the op is planning to return, though. At this point if not, the question will stay closed.

apaul

@Catija That's part of why I felt the need to address the issue. Seems like people get chased away at times and that sucks.

Catija

@apaul Eh... I don't know if that's why in this case. It's not going anywhere.

Well, the question will get roombaed but that would happen to any closed abandoned questions.

apaul

@Catija I can't say that's the case either, but it is kinda understandable. People expose some really personal stuff here, when they're met with a harsh reaction it makes sense that they would abandon the question...

apaul

7:08 PM

Well that got derailed quickly... One of my favorite people dropped by.

@Catija perhaps our friend could learn something from that video...

Catija

7:36 PM

@apaul ... He makes a fair point... as does tinkeringbell... And it's also reflected in the comment I left on the question in response to Astralbee's comment... it's a future that we can't predict and we sort of need to let it happen. Some of these posts may very may well be trolls... we're not going to accuse them of that ... and if the questions are good, does it matter?

But this question isn't a good question, regardless of the subject matter... so it doesn't make for a great hill to argue from

Robert's response to the Furry meta question is useful in this situation... and despite the initial downvotes, that question did well overall... so I don't really think that we have a problem at this point.

apaul

Thanks for the backup.

Catija

@apaul I'm sorry. I support you and I do support the general gist of what you're saying. I also have to consider the broader concerns. My personal feelings don't really play in to my moderation... or they shouldn't... if the site as a whole decides that this isn't good for the site, I have to go along with that decision.

apaul

@Catija riiight. People follow diamonds, for better or worse. When you have the opportunity to do the right thing, you should.

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