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3:17 AM
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A: Off-diagonal terms in metric for 4D space-time

sweetserBased on the comments from @ACuriousMind, the question itself is poorly formed. To calculate an interval between two events on a general manifold, one needs both a metric and a connection. Using the process of parallel transport, one moves one of the points next to the other. Then one can subtrac...

No, Marcel explained above how to calculate the interval, and it doesn't involve transporting a point to another. Parallel transport is for vectors, you don't a parallel transport a point on a manifold to another point. My guess is you are incorrectly assuming that because you can specify a point with a coordinate tuple that it is like a four-vector. A coordinate tuple is not a four-vector. — BuddyJohn Mar 7 at 10:12
@BuddyJohn A point in a manifold such as $dx^\mu$ is a place to attach a tangent (or cotangent) space where a tangent four-vector can live. I am not as clear about how to view the point since it does have a raised index which makes it look like it should be considered to be a rank 1 tensor. — sweetser Mar 7 at 20:37
The labels like $\square^\mu$ for components need to be interpreted in context. For example the labels for coordinate tuples, vectors, Dirac matrices, or some of the labels in the QCD Lagrangian, do not mean these are all similar types of objects or even the same number of components. — BuddyJohn 2 days ago
$dx^\mu$ is not a point on a manifold. In this notation, $x^\mu$ are the coordinates for a point on the manifold, and are not a tensor. And at a point $p$, $dx^\mu(p)$ is a vector in the tangent space at $p$. So $g_{\mu\nu}(p)\ dx^\mu(p)\ dx^\nu(p)$ is using the metric at $p$ to contract two vectors in the tangent space at $p$, and results in a scalar, the invariant square of an infinitesimal line element. This is sometimes just called the line element or an interval, which may have lead to the misunderstanding that it is a finite difference, but it only infinitesimal. — BuddyJohn 2 days ago
Thanks for the more explicit notation. I would also write out the two summations that are normally dropped due to the Einstein summation convention. One thing that bothers me a little is the statement that $x^\mu(p)$ would not not transform like a tensor. I would think the definition of $dx^\mu(p)$ might be something like: $lim_{\delta \rightarrow 0}x^\mu(p) - x^\mu(p + \delta) = dx^\mu(p)$. Of course $x^\mu(p)$ is not a differential line element, but it still would be a point at the start of the path. — sweetser yesterday
Why does that statement still bother you? Even if we restrict ourselves to inertial frames, consider the coordinate transformation: $(\bar{x}^0,\bar{x}^1,\bar{x}^2,\bar{x}^3) = (x^0 + a, x^1 + b, x^2,x^3)$, where $a$ and $b$ are some constants. Do you expect the components of a vectors to also change similarly? They do not. Maybe working out some problems from a textbook would help readjust your intuition. I find that helps when learning something new to help it sink it. — BuddyJohn 24 hours ago
I agree, $x^\mu(p)$ does not transform like $dx^\mu(p)$. The different is two fold: there is a delta and a limit process. Define a new operator, $DD$, which is a Discreet Difference between two points $p$ and $q$ without a limit process, so $x^\mu(p) - x^\mu(q)=DDx^\mu(p,q)$. I would think this discreet difference may transform like a tensor because at the very least the coordinate transformation above would not change $DDx^\mu(p,q)$. Convert the discrete difference operator $DD$ to the differential line element by letting $q=p+\delta$, then taking the limit of $\delta$ going to zero. — sweetser 10 hours ago
 
3:44 AM
There appears to be a misconception here regarding coordinate systems.
Coordinates for a point are just a collection of numbers. They are not vectors and they are not like vectors with a constant offset or whatever you seem to believe.
To even represent a vector $\mathbf{v}$ as components $(v^0,v^1,v^2,v^3)$ requires a basis; it is saying $\mathbf{v} = v^0 \mathbf{e_0} + v^1 \mathbf{e_1} + v^2 \mathbf{e_2} + v^3 \mathbf{e_3}$. How these are split up into pieces is basis dependent, but each piece is vector, so we can discuss the magnitude of these separately ($v^0 v^0 g_{00}$, etc.).
A difference in coordinate tuples cannot be interpreted this way, and one simple and hopefully intuitive reason is that if you start at some point and walk 3 km in the "first" direction and then 4 km in the "second direction", you might end up in a different place than if you had done those in a different order: walk 4 km in the "second" direction, then 3 km in the "first" direction.
Now, there is a way to kind of do what you want, but it is not possible with general (peudo)-Riemannian manifolds. In an Affine space (like Euclidean geometry), we have a nice linear space, and everything works like our grade school intuition would expect.
With an affine space, the two walks described above would always have to come to the same point. Indeed, the very first introduction of "vectors" in school is usually "displacement vectors" in Euclidean space.
 
 
14 hours later…
5:39 PM
Arg, why did we lose our nice math?
"...it is not possible with general (peudo)-Riemannian manifolds." I can both accept and embrace that constraint. Right now, points are dull because they only serve to attach a tangent space and thus a differential line element. I dream of granting events in space-time considerably more power, but it will always be as an affine space.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:21 PM
There are some options to re-enable math symbols in chat: see meta.stackexchange.com/a/220976
I used the chrome extension as that seemed easiest.
 
8:38 PM
As a follow up note to point out how restrictive that limitation is, you would be restricted to a fixed basis coordinate system, and could only change coordinate systems with a linear transformation.
For example even in Euclidean space, your idea would not work with spherical coordinates, as that is no longer describing it like an affine space. In spherical coordinates the metric and basis vectors vary with position.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:44 PM
Since we are in chat now, I have to ask. What exactly is your goal here?
Why are you trying to create new things before seemingly taking the time to learn the math and physics that people have already taken centuries to build up.
If your goal is in any way related to understanding nature better, it would seem foolish to ignore so much of the work people before you have already put in.
 

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