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7:54 AM
More 'foreign' sounds in a language does not mean that the learner can't distinguish between them though.
Can't pronounce, perhaps. But I'm sure they can distinguish between e.g. 'th' and 's'
 
Anonymous
No, but it's very hard to learn to make contrasts between pairs of sounds that aren't distinguished in your language.
 
Anonymous
That is, it's hard to add new phonemic buckets.
 
Anonymous
/l/ and /r/ is a classical example, of course, but there are lots of other challenges, like English having so many more vowels than Japanese.
 
Anonymous
Japanese /a/ encompasses a number of English vowels.
 
Anonymous
So they have to split one phonemic bucket up to hear those as different sounds in English.
 
Anonymous
7:59 AM
Japanese learners of English do frequently substitute /s/ for /θ/ (th as in moth) and /z/ for /ð/ (th as in mother)
 
Anonymous
So I think it's a challenge all around adding new phonemic buckets
 
I always attributed that to insufficient pronunciation practice at schools.
If nobody spends time teaching them the /θ/ sound or the tongue position it requires, very few will learn it by themselves.
By the way, is everyone waiting for my answer in the XをYという形に question or something?
 
Anonymous
Well, sure, it takes time and effort to learn. But the original cause is that native speakers of any language are trained since birth to be very efficient at processing their own language, and so they don't pick up on contrasts that aren't present in that language. Part of being very efficient at processing your native language is throwing away useless information.
 
Anonymous
Um, I don't know. I've been kind of overwhelmed with stuff this week! :-)
 
Vowels are quite a bit more difficult to teach, now that I think of it. Maybe I was blessed, with eight different vowels in my native language.
 
Anonymous
8:04 AM
Oh, what's your native language?
 
Finnish.
 
Anonymous
I'm a native speaker of English, so I've got 14 . . .
 
Anonymous
Finnish is a neat language! :-)
 
Anonymous
It's possible for Japanese speakers to mishear the th sounds as t and d
 
Anonymous
I don't know. Perception is really complicated.
 
Anonymous
8:05 AM
If you're interested in the psycholinguistics underlying all of this, I highly recommend Native Listening
 
I spend much time reading about linguistics on Wikipedia but I hesitate picking up more 'hardcore' materials.
The terminology will probably make my eyes gloss over.
Anyway, here's how us Finns hear the English vowels: ɑ ʌ a → 'a'; ɒ ɔ o → 'o'; ɪ i → 'i'; e ɛ → 'e'; ʊ u → 'u'; æ → 'ä'; ə → 'ö'
The three /ɑ/ /ʌ/ /a/ sounds sound roughly the same.
I just read an article where a refugee mentioned that the hardest thing about Finnish were the three front vowel sounds
/y/, /æ/, /ø/
 
Anonymous
8:24 AM
Oh!
 
He was from Afghanistan, IIRC.
 
 
5 hours later…
1:37 PM
I've tried explain different sound production methods to students before. In a class of 20, they can barely follow it, and then I didn't notice any change in production
 
 
5 hours later…
6:28 PM
We have 6⁵ questions now. Rejoice.
 
 
3 hours later…
9:50 PM
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