Japanese Language

Anonymous

12:01 AM

8

Q: Can 対 be used in Japanese where "Versus" would be used in English?

Let's say you were comparing/contrasting two concepts e.g. in a title of an essay/article. Concept A vs. Concept B - Which is Better? The above is just an example. Can 対 be used? Also, how would you put 対 in a sentence? I am guessing like this: ConceptA 対 ConceptB So, is there a Japa...

Anonymous

I was watching となりの関くん again today, and the episode was titled 将棋vsチェス. But they pronounced vs like it was 対!

ssb

1:42 AM

I hadn't realized at all that those kanji were mixed up, sorry!

And then I was looking at it again thinking "what is going on here?" before I realized that Earthliŋ edited it for me

So thank you all for being ever watchful

Anonymous

Maybe I should have edited instead of leaving a comment :-)

Anonymous

2:47 AM

By the way, I upvoted the question about かたい. I don't see what caused it to be downvoted twice

silvermaple

heeey :)

Anonymous

3:04 AM

Hello! Welcome back! :-)

ssb

3:40 AM

Wow I didn't even notice that question had downvotes

I wonder why

silvermaple

I have to be honest, I've been half-assing my studies

TIME TO BUCKLE DOWN

I think I have adult-onset add

Szymon

4:09 AM

I always get at least one downvote on my questions so wasn't really surprised that my question about かたい got downvoted.

Anonymous

Hmm.

Szymon

It seems that I'm not the only one with this issue.

I refresh the questions page quite often (not really because there's so much going on, but I'm on SO often and refresh JLSE as well). Quite often I see a new question which gets downvoted within minutes. It usually gets upvotes some time later.

Anonymous

@Szymon Sorry, I seem to have accidentally stepped on your edit. Do you think you can submit it again?

Szymon

@snailboat No problem

Done. I changed しょう to しよう in the post.

Anonymous

4:30 AM

@DariusJahandarie Did you ever read this? usf.usfca.edu/japanese/Topicalization.pdf

Anonymous

@Szymon I'm not sure what to do with that question.

Szymon

Though it seems that しょう is also ok in that phrase.

Anonymous

Well, I think しよう gets slurred to しょう sometimes. せおう does, too.

Szymon

This form is listed in WWWJDIC, for example.

Maybe reject my edit in this case...

@snailboat, can I also have a question, if you saw the questions about "子どもの私には"?

Anonymous

What about it?

Szymon

4:42 AM

Can "子どもの私には" be the subject? For me, に in this sentence marks dative and I wouldn't think it could be the subject.

Anonymous

That's because you're tied to が = subject

Szymon

So you reckon it is a subject?

Anonymous

Well, if you want to answer that question you have to define "subject" and come up with a useful set of diagnostics for it.

Anonymous

I linked you to a set of tests the other day, I think

Anonymous

Subject honorification, reflexive binding

Szymon

4:46 AM

Yes, thanks, I started reading but didn't have time to go through that carefully.

Anonymous

And semantically, it seems like it plays the same role the subject would. Actually, usually に can be replaced with が

Szymon

That's true about the replacement. Can it be replaced in this sentence?

Anonymous

And so には can often be replaced with simply は, because *がは is replaced with は

Anonymous

You should ask a native speaker for a judgment about that

Szymon

Interesting.

What's also interesting to me is that Polish has almost identical construction as 私にはわからない with dative form of "I". But it doesn't make it a subject in the sentence, it's still an indirect object. There's a form of Polish verbs that just don't have a subject at all. I need to check my Polish book on Japanese grammar and see if it has anything about it.

Anonymous

4:56 AM

Other languages have dative constructions, e.g. German

Anonymous

You can argue whether you want to consider them "subjects" in each language. You just have to come up with a set of criteria

Szymon

You mean have dative subjects?

Anonymous

Well, "dative construction" is a more neutral term that doesn't call them subjects :-)

Szymon

Obviously, lots of languages have dative. I was interested in the dative case of a noun being a subject specifically. Sorry, if I'm not clear.

And boring everyone with that ;)

Anonymous

Ah, people use the term "dative constructions" for this sort of thing specifically. I'm aware it doesn't sound specific. :-)

Anonymous

5:06 AM

Call them "dative subject constructions" if you're averse to the shorter term

Szymon

Ok. Thanks for the explanation.

I'm quite new here in JLSE and I've been wondering if I'm not punching above my weight by answering questions. Please let me know if you think my answers are not of a good quality.

Anonymous

I think you're helping make the site better with your contributions

Anonymous

Over on ELL:

Anonymous

1

Q: Japanese "suru-meishi" (verbal nouns) 'to do' translation

i am participating in a Japanese-English translation, and 've come across one of many loose boards. This question only pertains to a WORD INDEX. In accordance with my Japanese principal's teaching method, for who I am doing this translation, there is a special class of nouns called "suru-meishi...

auxiliary-verbs

Szymon

hehe. Are you snailplane in there?

Anonymous

5:12 AM

Yes! I've achieved vehicular polymorphism!

Szymon

:) I've got to go now. See you later!

Yang Muye

5:27 AM

@snailboat I think "locative" might be a more proper name for Japanese に.

Anonymous

I think only some にs are locative.

Yang Muye

行に{いに}(go to)→に(to/in). Chinese locative marker 於＝于 comes from a verb 于(to go), but finally becomes the most functional preposition, which can mean "to" "at" "in" "from", etc.

I think Japanese might be similar.

Anonymous

When a locative marker has been grammaticalized and loses its locative function, I think it is best not to call it locative, just as I call to in English to do an infinitive marker--it's lost its etymological meaning

Anonymous

Ah, the edit changing しょう to しよう went through

Anonymous

1

Q: "どうしようもない" or "どうしよう__の__もない", or neither?

This is my understanding: "どうしようもない" is a complete sentence. (There is nothing that can be done.) "noun + もない" is the sentence structure. therefore: "どうしよう" = "noun" "どうする" is a sentence ending with a verb (ie. not a noun). Is "どうしよう" a noun? Is it the same part of speech as "どうする"? <--- q...

grammar particle-no

Yang Muye

5:45 AM

@snailboat So you are defining them by their meaning, not their forms. But what's the function of "dative"? I'm not familiar with this grammar term, but wiki says: "The dative case (abbreviated dat, or sometimes d when it is a core argument) is a grammatical case generally used to indicate the noun to which something is given, as in "George gave Jamie a drink"" Then I can claim that only some に is dative.

Oh it says "Under the influence of English, which uses the preposition "to" for both indirect objects (give to) and directions of movement (go to), the term "dative" has sometimes been used to describe cases that in other languages would more appropriately be called lative."

ssb

6:38 AM

I'm occasionally tempted to post answers just for the joke

But then I resist the temptation ;)

Anonymous

6:49 AM

@ssb I did that once!

ssb

I'm sure if I did it I'd feel guilty and delete it minutes later

Anonymous

2

A: Is there a set response to 『いらっしゃい！』?

As far as I know, there isn't a set response to いらっしゃい（ませ）. Usually people don't say anything in response. You can politely acknowledge the person welcoming you in a non-linguistic manner by smiling or nodding. (I wanted to post いらっしゃいました as a joke answer, but fortunately I'm too mature to do ...

Anonymous

The only reason I posted that answer was because I wanted to say 「いらっしゃいました！」

ssb

well that's about a million times more constructive than what my punchline answers would be

Anonymous

10:07 AM

4

Q: How do I express "this made me laugh"?

This is the kind of simple question I'm often too embarrassed to ask, because I should probably know this by now. But here goes... I was ordering something at a cafe, and I noticed some slightly awkward English on the menu something that made me laugh. It wasn't super funny or anything, it just ...

grammar particles verbs

Anonymous

I'm a bit confused by this.

Anonymous

The title is 'How do I express “this made me laugh”?'

Anonymous

In the question body, it asks:

Anonymous

> What would be the best way for me to express, while pointing at the text on the menu, "this made me laugh"?

Anonymous

But then in a comment, the author wrote:

Anonymous

10:08 AM

Thanks for this suggestion. It's one way to express the general idea, but the intention of my question isn't so much about what vocabulary to use, but how to correctly apply the right grammar. So I'm looking for an answer that uses the verb 笑う. — Dave M G yesterday

Anonymous

So are you saying there is no grammatical way to speak about the thing that made me laugh? I have to say "I was made to laugh" and point? You may be right, but I have to admit I find it a little hard to believe that the Japanese language is quite that constrained. — Dave M G 3 hours ago

Anonymous

So it looks like he's asking for 1. the most natural way to express the idea, with the constraint that 2. the most natural way to express it must be the way he wants to express it already

Anonymous

That is, not only must the answer use 笑わせる, but it shouldn't say 僕を, and it should be the most natural way to say it

Anonymous

Hmm.

Anonymous

Well, I don't think I'm capable of answering that question.

Anonymous

10:43 AM

Maybe I could answer his other question, though

Anonymous

3

Q: What is this sentence trying to say about televisions and computers?

I have this sentence in my JLPT practise book: テレビでもパソコンでも、なかったらなかったでなんとかなるものだよ。 It's part of a review question about the grammatical form ～たら～たで, which I understand to mean something close to "whether or not". One example they give is 電話{でんわ}に出{で}たら出{で}たで, which I think means "whether or n...

grammar

Anonymous

I like this question

Anonymous

12:18 PM

Oh good, YangMuye answered!

Anonymous

I might still write an answer later just to put it in my own words, so I can see if I've got it sorted out right in my head or not

Anonymous

2:16 PM

Ooh, Chocolate's answer makes that 笑わせる question clearer to me.