Japanese Language

djahandarie

12:03 AM

I honestly have no idea anymore.

「太郎の送ってもらったメール」を書けば、送り手は太郎ですか？

Chocolate

Hmm

＝「太郎が送ってもらったメール」？

なら、送ったのは、太郎じゃないです

「太郎に送ってもらったメール」なら、送り手は太郎です

djahandarie

ああ、なるほど

Chocolate

「私が、太郎に送ってもらったメール」なら。(I had Taro send the email)

「私が、太郎さんに送らせてもらったメール」なら、I sent the email to Taro.

djahandarie

Ahhh

So what you are receiving in 送らせてもらった is the permission to send it

Chocolate

Ahh so I do the 送る, but the hearer did the 送らせる(causative), ね？

Like "let me send"

djahandarie

12:13 AM

送らせてもらった、感謝している＝＞「I appreciate that I was given permission to send it」と言う意味かな

Yeah

そうですか…明らかになりました

Chocolate

そうですか…難しいわ

Andrew san posted the email that he had sent to the travel agent.

djahandarie

なぜ「いただく」を使うことができるも分かりました（自分の話ですからね）

Chocolate

on lang-8

I asked him "have they replied yet?" and he said 「まだ。」

So he's talking about that email

We often use お越しいただきありがとうございます but some people say it's wrong

Some people say we should say お越しくださりありがとうございます

お越し=尊敬語 of 来る, いただく=謙譲語 of もらう、くださる＝尊敬語 of くれる

It's originally 来てくれてありがとう。So the subject for both 来て and くれる is the hearer.

「来てもらってありがとう」はおかしい！・・・ていうことらしいです

でも!! We often say お越しいただきありがとうございます

djahandarie

12:32 AM

なるほどね。よく分かりました。この表現はどこから来たのにちょっと興味を持ちました。

I think that sentence I just wrote is not very good, lol

Chocolate

@snailplane Lang-8でよく読んでみようっと

djahandarie

ところで、「〜かな」はもっと丁寧な形はあるのでしょうか？

Chocolate

「～かな？」in 「今日は何曜日かな？」?

djahandarie

はい

あ。ちょっと。「〜でしょうか」ではないですか。

ｗｗなんか質問までで使ったとは。

Chocolate

「今日は何曜日。。。ですか」にもなりますねえ

「今日は何曜日でしょうか？」でもOKだし

「かな？」って、いくつか、使い方がありそうです

「なにかな？」は「なんだろう？」に似てますし

「なんだろう？」は丁寧にしたら「なんでしょう？」になりそう。

djahandarie

12:46 AM

まあ、「〜ですか」は質問に見える、でも「〜かな」は独り言を言うことかもしれないかな…＜その風に

Chocolate

ですねえ～

「独り言」によく使いますね

Anonymous

Why are there dotted lines between some messages?

Anonymous

These dotted lines are mysterious to me.

djahandarie

Not sure.

Maybe it means a little time passed.

Anonymous

点線、不思議な・・・

Chocolate

12:48 AM

ほんまや。なんやろ？

djahandarie

Oh, wait. Whenever someone says something after you, the dotted line seems to go before your last message.

As to what the use of that is... I'm not sure.

Anonymous

Ah! I clicked to another chat room, and clicked back here, and all three dotted lines vanished.

djahandarie

chat.stackoverflow.com/faq#read

Looks like they explain it here.

Chocolate

I refreshed this page and the line is gone

Anonymous

I only recently learned about shift-enter.

Anonymous

12:56 AM

To
put
stuff
on
multiple
lines

Chocolate

ほほほ

ほ
ほ
ほ

Anonymous

1:16 AM

か　　　　　　　　　　　ほほほほほほ
た　　　　　　　　　ほほ　　　　　　ほほ　　　　　　ほほほ　　ほほほ
つ　　　　　　　　ほ　　　　　　　　　　ほ　　　　ほ　　　ほほ　　　ほ
む　　　　　　　ほ　　　　　　　　　　　　ほ　　　ほ　ほ　ほほ　ほ　ほ
り　　　　　　　ほ　　　　　　　　　　　　ほ　　　ほ　　　ほほ　　　ほ
か　　　　　　ほ　　　　　　ほほ　　　　　　ほ　　　ほほほ　　ほほほ
た　　　　　　ほ　　　　　ほ　　ほほ　　　　ほ　　　　ほ　　　　ほ
つ　　　　　　ほ　　　　　ほ　　　　ほ　　　ほ　　　　ほ　　　　ほ
む　　　　　　ほ　　　　　　　　　　ほ　　　ほ　　　　ほ　　　　ほ
り　　　　　　　ほ　　　　　　　　　ほ　　　　ほ　　　ほ　　　　ほ
か　　　　　　　　ほほ　　　　　　ほ　ほほほほ　ほほほほほほほほほほほ
た　　　　　　ほほ　　ほほほほほほ　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　ほ
つ　　　　　ほ　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　ほ
む　　　　ほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほほ

Anonymous

Snail! :-)

djahandarie

1:37 AM

Hahahaha

djahandarie

8:01 AM

Time for my annoying unanswerable etymology question of the month.

Flaw

9:18 AM

The mansion question is like asking why black and blanc are not the same colour

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/black
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/blanc
Both share this origin of "bhleg"

Neither language group "messed up" when they decided what it meant

Just as blanc and black have become different words, so have mansion and マンション.

Andrew Grimm

10:39 AM

@Flaw true cognates, but false friends?

3 downvotes, and no comments on how the question could have been improved. Yeah, I love you guys too!

I'm glad I annoyed such people enough to get the downvotes.

Flaw

11:19 AM

@AndrewGrimm I don't think downvotes mean that

It means the question wasn't a good question.

Flaw

11:34 AM

I'd like to try to explain why it's a bad question.

1) The basis of the question was weak. Petitio principii. There is an equivalency or correspondence assumption.

It begs the question of "do the words really need to correspond?"

Andrew Grimm

@Flaw I want to star your last statement for using "begs the question" correctly!

If I was guilty of assuming that words need to correspond, were the sources I cited also guilty of that?

Flaw

11:50 AM

2) Another assumption when there was an establishment of correctness

The words "messed up" implies that there was a correctness reference point

Which again begs another question.

Chocolate

おはよう

(1:00pmだけど)

Flaw

おはよう

Chocolate

Ew @AndrewGrimm san is gone?

ww

@Flaw TsuyoshiItoさんは、しばらく見えてないですよね。

お。おかえり

@AndrewGrimm Thank you for the message on lang8

Andrew Grimm

12:07 PM

@Chocolate you're welcome.

Chocolate

Maybe I should take back the post "Have they replied yet?"

Andrew Grimm

@Chocolate probably a good idea.

Chocolate

Okay

@AndrewGrimm So I read the email you sent to the travel agency (in Japan, right?)

And you think they didn't take it seriously, right?

Or maybe they didn't reply to you because they want to avoid anything めんどくさい

Andrew Grimm

@Chocolate (do you mean "in Japanese", or "in Japan")

Chocolate

A travel agency in Japan. maybe in tohoku?

Andrew Grimm

12:13 PM

@Chocolate the email I sent you mentioned the town that the tourism information was for.

(Well, a link to a web page, and you could see from the web page)

Chocolate

I think I saw the page somewhere in your lang8 post...

Andrew Grimm

The URL wasn't in the lang8 post, it was in an email I sent you.

Chocolate

(I can't find it)

Andrew Grimm

(An email sent within the lang-8 website. Maybe "PM" (private message) is a more correct term)

Chocolate

Ah! I remember! Yes!! I feel so silly

It's just yesterday!! あほや～ん

Andrew Grimm

12:22 PM

I guess there's a couple of things that could have been wrong. 1) the email could have just gone missing. 2) the recipients felt that they weren't the right people to answer my email 3) they couldn't understand my email (but other lang8ers reckon that's not a problem) 4) just one customer isn't appropriate 5) they're worried about how a gaijin who doesn't understand much nihongo would behave

6) They don't get many foreigners, and they aren't capable of handling a visit by English-speakers.

Chocolate

Hmmm

I'll try to re-write your message in (what I think is ) a standard/politer email format,

Then I'll PM you on Lang8

What other things do you want to ask them

I think you could resend your message, then wait for a few days,

then if they still don't reply, you can send the message "Did you receive my email?"

Andrew Grimm

That sounds like a good plan!

Chocolate

Let me know if you have any other questions you want to ask them

＠Flaw さん　おかえり

Andrew Grimm

I'm trying to think of some positive question to ask. All of the questions I'd asked were about potential problems, and it'd be nice to ask something positive.

Flaw

I imagine that I'm appearing and disappearing from the room. I'm accessing the chat room from my mobile phone.

I think I disconnect everytime my phone goes to sleep

Andrew Grimm

12:46 PM

@Chocolate I've thought of something nice to ask. It'll sound like a bit of a dumb question, but that's ok. Does a performance include the playing of a shamisen by the geisha?

Chocolate

Okay^^

Andrew Grimm

I like the sound of the shamisen.

Thanks @Chocolate!

Chocolate

On the page you linked, it says お食事の後は東山芸妓のお得意の歌と踊りで楽しいひと時をお過ごし下さい。
同じ芸妓でも、経験や場によって担当がわかれます。
お座敷で踊る役を「立方（たちかた）」といい、三味線、唄、鳴りもの（太鼓、鼓）などの伴奏を担当する役を「地方（じかた）」といいます。
めでたい宴席のお座敷は唄と伴奏と踊りが一体となってにぎやかに繰り広げられます。
So i think you'll see them play shamisen, drums, flute, and sing and dance.

But

It says on the bottom of the page,

14,175 yen / 90 minutes

I wonder how many gaisha would come if you pay this.

Andrew Grimm

So it sounds like it's more for a group of people?

Chocolate

Hmm

Anonymous

12:53 PM

You can post a picture of handwriting to Lang-8... I did that before. I think that if you post handwriting to be corrected, you should also type it, because otherwise people won't be able to correct specific sentences.

Anonymous

That question seems off-topic, even for meta... maybe you could ask it on Lang-8 ^-^;

Chocolate

@AndrewGrimm Oh yes! It says 「一名」just before the prices

Lol~

Anonymous

(talking about this question: )

Anonymous

0

Q: Sites like lang-8, but for handwriting

Are there any sites that are like lang-8.com, but allow reviewing of hand-writing? Is it socially acceptable to post hand-writing to lang-8 itself?

Chocolate

It says
◆基本料金（現金の場合）
1名：
90分　14,175円（税込）
30分　4,750円（税込・90分より）

(現金の場合>>>What if you paid by credit card??)

Andrew Grimm

12:57 PM

Japan has credit card? What happened since last September?

(Sorry, that was a joke)

Chocolate

www

I heard from some non-Japanese people that some places in japan don't accept your visa cards

And same thing happened to me here in UK

Flaw

I'm back to using the computer. (How do I phrase this? "コンピュータに戻った"?)

Andrew Grimm

Is the 30分 talking about having a 30 minute session instead of a 90 minute session, or 30 minute extensions to a 90 minute session?

Chocolate

@Flaw だね

Flaw

やっぱりコンピュータのほうがいい。

Chocolate

1:00 PM

the latter. I think it should be minimum 90 min, and you can extend

Flaw

I think it means 30 minutes after the first 90 mins

Chocolate

yeah

Anonymous

@Flaw おかえり〜

Chocolate

So if you ask 3 geisha for 3 hours...

Flaw

Should I be saying "ただいま" ?

Anonymous

1:01 PM

I don't know. I just like saying おかえり〜

Flaw

(does ただいま normally precede おかえり?)

Chocolate

そ～ね～

Flaw

Is it okay to say ただいま after someone says おかえり?

Chocolate

おｋ

↑OK

14175×2(3 hrs)×3 geisha...

Andrew Grimm

3 geisha for 3 hours = 14,175 * 3 + 4,750 * 3 * 3 = 85275 yen.

Chocolate

1:04 PM

たかっ

Flaw

Oh this is reminiscent of those man-hours math questions

Andrew Grimm

How many geisha-hours in the mythical geisha-month?

Flaw

"3 men take 3 hours to build 3 buildings, how many men does it take to build 9 buildings in 9 hours."

Andrew Grimm

(Programming joke en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month )

Anonymous

Answer: no one knows!

Andrew Grimm

1:08 PM

Brooks law, amended. Adding more geishas to a late party makes the party later.

Flaw

Imaginary geisha. We need a phasor diagram to represent them.

Anonymous

想像芸者

Flaw

(I'm currently doing AC circuits and that's all I can think about lately)

Anonymous

仮想芸者？

Chocolate

not 仮装 or 火葬

火葬はアカン

手書きを投稿？ええんちゃう？？
http://meta.japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/1031/sites-like-lang-8-but-for-handwriting

Anonymous

1:11 PM

What is ええんちゃう？ My brain says ええ＝いい　ん＝の　ちゃう＝しまういいのしまう？？

Flaw

@Chocolate, 「アカン」って言葉は関西弁？

Chocolate

I've seen some people post their voice recordings so..

いいんじゃない？みたいな～

Yes it's kansai ben

Anonymous

Ohh

Anonymous

It's like ちゃう→じゃん？

Anonymous

I didn't know that

Chocolate

1:14 PM

ちゃう＜＜関西弁だね～

Flaw

I've been trying to understand the show ガキの使いやあらへんで

Chocolate

そうそう

ガキツカ面白い

Anonymous

Ohh. Neat! I need to learn more 関西弁＾＾

Flaw

I picked up a little bit of 関西弁 I think.

They used アカン a lot.

Chocolate

Yes~

And they say あほ

Anonymous

1:15 PM

I know アカン！

Anonymous

(See how proud I am?)

Chocolate

ｗｗｗ

Flaw

アカン is like ダメ and 悪い

Anonymous

I know やん

Flaw

That's what I think it is, but I'm not sure.

Anonymous

1:16 PM

アカン in 大辞林

Flaw

~やねん is ~ている right?

Anonymous

Oh really? I thought it was や＝じゃ　ねん＝ない

Anonymous

D'oh.

Flaw

I don't know!

Anonymous

Me either :-)

Flaw

1:18 PM

(Don't trust what I say)

Anonymous

Well, any time I'm unsure of something, I try to mark it with "I think" or "I guess" or "I thought"

Flaw

I think じゃない is やあらへん

<fontsize=big> I think< /fontsize=big> haha

Anonymous

Oh, wait

Anonymous

ねん＝ねぇ？

Anonymous

や＝だ　ねん＝ねぇ　　　だねぇ

Anonymous

1:20 PM

？

Anonymous

そうやねん

Flaw

1:31 PM

I really should be studying

I guess my new strategy is to have 2 pieces of work to do, with one less appealing than the other. Then I'll go study for the not so unappealing one.

Anonymous

Yay

Anonymous

What do you need to study

Flaw

Either diagonalising matrices

Or particle physics

Anonymous

That makes me feel so lazy for practicing guitar

Anonymous

I could be studying, but I'm practicing arpeggios instead :-)

Flaw

1:33 PM

Well you could argue that you're still improving in a different area

Guitar skill is improving, so it's not a bad thing

While I'm still here procrastinating and thinking of doing either, or not doing either hahaha.

Chocolate

1:57 PM

@AndrewGrimm Lang8 PM's can't be delivered if they include "~~~.com"

キー！><=3

Anonymous

本当！　知らなかった

Anonymous

Maybe to catch spam

Anonymous

I bet a lot of spam has ~~~.com

Anonymous

I see spam messages on Lang-8 sometimes... usually in comments

Flaw

2:44 PM

Is there a faster way to manually do (2-i)^4 instead of using exponential/polar form?

Do I have to do binomial expansion if I want nice numbers?

Also, I'm annoyed at my calculator. It can do (2-i)^2*(2-i)^2 and (2-i)(2-i)^3, but (2-i)^4 returns me an error message.

Anonymous

If I enter (2-i)^4, my calculator says -7 - 24・i. It doesn't give me an error message

Flaw

I opted to do diagonalisation even though I'd much prefer particle physics

Anonymous

Save the best for last? :-)

Flaw

I guess so.

Probably because the deadline for particle physics is on friday.

Math is on tuesday

Anonymous

4:58 PM

@djahandarie Not unanswerable enough! Try harder! :-)

djahandarie

5:14 PM

So it seems... haha.

Dono is awesome, I'm glad he's around.

Anonymous

6:07 PM

@djahandarie Me too :-)

Anonymous

ありがたい〜

Anonymous

I decided to ask an etymology question, too.

Anonymous

7:00 PM

Hmm. Can I sign up for this JapanKnowledge thing from the U.S.?

silvermaple

10:52 PM

0

Q: Why aren't マンション mansions? Or are they?

And no, this isn't about property sizes in Japan! As Katakana Mysteries: 6 loan words Japan got wrong put it: Bill Gates or Warren Buffet might be very surprised if they were to buy a Japanese manshon, only to find upon their arrival something a bit less grand than they envisioned, and t...

etymology loanwords

I don't know if I should answer with my own personal observations on the topic

It's not in anyway something I looked up or studied, just my own ideas...is that valid for an answer?

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