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00:00 - 07:0007:00 - 16:00

ssb
7:00 AM
my first thought was "written test"
 
Ohh
 
ああ、そうねえ
 
My study buddy wanted me to take the JLPT this year with them, but they decided not to take it until next year
So I'm probably not going to, because the only reason I was going to is because my friend wanted to make me :-)
 
英語でwritten test なのを、日本語ではよく『ライティング・テスト』という・・・
分詞が・・・
なので、『記述あるの?』を『ライティングあるの?』とか言ったりする
@snailboat 試験料いくらくらい?TOEFLとかIELTSって、一回25,000円くらいするよ
 
まず「今日はどういう作業を(するんですか?)」「うわ、(作業をするのは)聞いてません(笑)」だと思ったけど、問題は「どういった」だ。
 
7:08 AM
@DariusJahandarie どういう作業をするんですか、と、どういった作業をするんですか、は、おなじですね
 
あっ、本当ですか
「どういった」聞いたことない…
 
ssb
isn't the JLPT ~$60?
 
マークシートですか?
 
@Choko Oh, that's expensive! I guess since the JLPT only tests listening and reading it's cheaper.
 
記述問題あるの?
 
7:09 AM
Yes I looked it up and it said $60
 
ssb
but one of the problems with the JLPT is that it's only offered once per year in America and only in a few locations
so travel costs can be quite high for some people
 
I saw どういった earlier today
I'm playing a detective game on DS
It said 「こちらにかかってくるのは どういった 電話が多いんですか?」
I made a note of it because I am more used to seeing どういう than どういった and I wanted to think about it later
 
Huh! And it's reasonably popular in BCCWJ. I wonder how I've never noticed this until now.
 
I think どういう is more common but どういった is also said
 
行かねば~
ノシ~~~
 
ssb
7:12 AM
for some reason the phrase どういった状態 is popping up in my head
 
See you, @Choko!
 
ssb
must be a sentence in anki
いのししー
 
バイバイ
 
When I see いのしし I think of 猪口才
Because when I go to write it I think "いのしし" hehe
(I know there's no real reason I need to know how to write 猪口才, but learning how to write things seems to help me remember them a lot better)
 
ssb
When I see user @Choko I think of 猪口
 
7:15 AM
Hehe, do you really :-)
 
ssb
now I do
 
Some 当て字 is pretty strange if you think about it
Like 素敵
 
ssb
that one confused me a lot
 
I was thinking about asking a question about どういう and どういった
Right now I'm feeling kind of discouraged from using the site
So I'm probably not going to
 
ssb
why so discouraged?
 
7:19 AM
Dealing with the troll got too stressful for me so I thought I'd take a little break
But then I showed back up anyway because I didn't want to leave things on the site that needed moderator-ing
 
ssb
You should be allowed to designate a moderator pro tempore
 
There were lots of personal attacks in the trolling
Not just on me, but on other users too
It's sad to me to see someone with that kind of mental problem
 
ssb
it is sad. but at least it seems it's subsided
 
I deleted three troll questions earlier today
 
ssb
oh, there were even more?
 
7:27 AM
Well, they were at a minimum three very bad questions.
I think the user in question was capable of answering them for themselves
But wanted to ask them to waste everyone's time
 
ssb
Yeah, I just took a look at the recently deleted
 
Is that 4k rep+?
 
ssb
I believe so
 
Where is that?
 
ssb
the recently deleted?
 
7:30 AM
I know moderators can search for deleted:1 and sort by recent
 
I guess I should post an answer or something to get this last 30 rep lol
 
And there's a "recently self-deleted posts" page too
 
ssb
Review > Tools > Recent Occurrences
 
I don't know if both of those are for moderators only
 
ssb
it shows recently deleted and undeleted
 
7:31 AM
A-ha!
 
Oh, hah.
Man, some of the UI on SE is honestly awful...
 
So you can see the posts I recently undeleted, too :-)
Yeah.
 
Those are tabs?!
 
ssb
@snailboat yes
@DariusJahandarie yes
 
Yesses all around!
 
ssb
7:33 AM
yes!
 
The detective game I've been playing is 探偵神宮寺三郎 DS 赤い蝶
I think it's what you call a visual novel, in that the game is 100% text and there doesn't appear to be any way to actually lose the game
 
ssb
I haven't heard of that one!
Ohh, OK
I've never been into the visual novel genre
 
Oh, I don't know much about it
I've always been under the impression that a lot of visual novels are kind of um, you know.
But this feels kind of like a detective novel
Played straight, not funny like 逆転裁判 or anything
 
ssb
visual novels are all over the place as far as I know
I do love me some Phoenix Wright, though
and Professor Layton
 
This is a pretty good game for the amount of Japanese I know
It's challenging enough in terms of vocabulary that I keep learning new things, but not especially difficult or frustrating, so I can just keep playing it without my brain overloading :-)
@ssb Really, though, hallucinogenic gas? Please.
Layton is fun but it has the worst plot twists ;-)
I enjoyed 逆転裁判 and 逆転検事!
Do those count as visual novels?
 
ssb
7:39 AM
I just recently discovered there are Professor Layton novels in Japanese!
 
Neat!
 
ssb
I think since you can lose they're not really visual novels but I don't really know
 
I feel like I should reproduce the lists of counters from Downing's book (on counters) somewhere, since I don't actually own a copy of the book (but my library does)
And it's expensive
She did a bunch of surveys to figure out which counters people really use or claim to use
And made several charts ranking them in terms of usefulness and such
 
ssb
oh, that would be interesting!
 
Then she came up with a list of 26 counters she calls the "core inventory"
and 47 she calls the "expanded inventory"
The core group she says is used by basically all speakers
And the expanded group is the set of all counters used by the majority of the people she surveyed
 
ssb
7:45 AM
I bet I could think of close to 26 common counters
But I'd be interested in that data
what is the book called?
 
Numeral Classifier Systems: The Case of Japanese (by Pamela Downing)
It talks about the syntax and semantics of counters, and gives frequency lists and so forth
And also talks about their historical development and changes
She gives a frequency list based on fiction, and another based on newspapers
And then another list based on the # of survey respondents claiming to use them
基 is kind of a weird counter
I was looking at the entry yesterday in the counter dictionary on my 電子辞書
I learned it as a counter for elevators
 
ssb
I don't know if I've seen it used
 
I guess it's not especially common
But more than half of the survey respondents said they use it
The same number who said they use 膳
It seems like there are about a zillion rare counters
I guess when you see someone else use counters like 門 or 基 it usually doesn't matter if you know them because it's usually obvious from context what they mean
And if you want to count cannons or elevators yourself you can probably get away with using a generic counter
When I was looking at the entry for 基, I had trouble figuring out what all of the things it's used to count had in common
That's why I was saying it seemed weird, although I'm sure there's some logic to it
Downing says "large, stationary objects"
 
8:03 AM
@snailboat @snailboat If you need time, by all means take it. SE isn't a job, even for moderators. But please don't feel discouraged by trolls. I think you're doing a fine job and are a fair to all. Except for trolls, I'd imagine most of the regular users here feel about the same. So cheer up!
 
Ah, thank you for the message :-)
 
8:20 AM
@snailboat the first time I saw "ヲ" in "Real life" was while watching "Baby Kangaroo's Birthday Surprise" last weekend. I recognised it easily enough, though.
 
@snailboat Pamela Downing?
 
8:41 AM
Yes, sorry, I'm on my phone so I can't edit the message to fix it right now (EDIT: fixed!)
My brain doesn't seem to be functioning particularly well tonight :-)
I don't think ヲ is especially common but I don't think I would ever suggest that it shouldn't be learned
I think I see it often enough
 
It is pretty common to be recognisable I think.
in fact even ヱ and co. are common enough (although officially unused) to be learned
 
Tae Kim's site used to leave it off the chart which troubled me, but he added it back at some point
I don't know any particular site to recommend to beginners
 
many years ago I used to learn using learn-japanese.info which did not change from that time and it was quite useful for a total beginner
 
 
2 hours later…
10:25 AM
k... I'm a bit confused... why is this answer flagged? japanese.stackexchange.com/a/18485/29
Yes, it was written by a troll, yes it has an essentially irrelevent comic included... but it also seems to answer the (very very basic) question fairly concisely.
 
ssb
10:48 AM
Probably only because of the troll account
 
11:43 AM
@snailboat What does that sentence mean?
@snailboat I saw 膳 used as a counter for 箸 once, in a tabloid article about China's poisonous splittable chopsticks
 
 
1 hour later…
Tim
12:52 PM
@jkerian It might have been me, if so, then yes because of the troll a/c. (Basic or not both the Q&A look bogus: It looks like is a fairly straight forward question combined with an unusual word to stimulate unnecessary activity or confusion among well intending users(?). I would have flagged it because looked like troll activity.)
 
ssb
Usually the unusual words had sexual connotations with the troll
 
Tim
I can't remember but I do recall forming that impression
@ssb You may understand it better than me. There was some of that but there also seemed to be just a lot noise being made to distract earnest users, with a lot of suspect/sub standard Q&A from brand new or relatively new members.
 
ssb
Yeah, if this is the troll then it certainly seems he's getting lazier
 
Tim
My own thought as a user was (and still is) to just ignore them, deny them the attention they seek and help the Mods deal with the issue.
Which means we probably should not discuss here. but BTW
@snailboat
I quite agree with @Dono's sentiments earlier.
 
1:22 PM
@snailboat I don't know if the link works, but if it does, you can query the database like this: data.stackexchange.com/japanese/query/edit/221909
 
 
2 hours later…
3:07 PM
@3to5businessdays What part of it don't you understand?
 
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