« first day (1240 days earlier)   

12:56 AM
@3to5businessdays こ 二
にこにこ is nice word for this reason
 
1:47 AM
Dictionaries list とはいえ as a 接続詞 derived from a 連語
Which makes sense, since it can be used to begin a sentence
大辞林 lists とはいうものの as a 連語, but says it can be used like a 接続詞 or a 接続助詞
I wonder how they make that distinction between being a 接続詞 and being used like a 接続詞
 
 
2 hours later…
3:43 AM
I just realized something. Hee, hee, hee.
 
4:02 AM
気持ち悪っw
で、何を気づいた?
 
wwwやばっ
I always feel a little weird editing the English of someone who is clearly a native speaker.
I added the subject in a few of the sentences in japanese.stackexchange.com/posts/19228/revisions, because the dropped versions sounded like they weren't in the right register for the site. But who am I to decide that, really?
I'm also becoming anal about putting some sort of quotes around Japanese which you are mentioning, since sometimes Japanese gets used as well.
As a convenient example:
"大辞林 lists 「とはいうものの」 as a 連語, but says it can be used like a 接続詞 or a 接続助詞"
 
5:03 AM
@snailboat Thanks for breaking up that FAQ entry... it's needed it for a while
We should probably split Quoting and Linking as well... as they have as little to do with each other as the rest of them
 
Oh, good point, I can do that in a bit :-)
I've been going through that onomatopoeia book I mentioned, which I actually like a lot! It has a few unfortunate typos (does every book on learning Japanese have typos?)
For instance, they wrote ぜん息 for 喘息, which is totally fine (it's not a 常用漢字 anyway), but
The furigana over 息 say いき
I've noticed little typos or errors like that in pretty much every book I have on Japanese...
Another interesting thing is that they wrote 相撲 and for furigana put す。もう
I have no idea why there's a 。 there!
It's a good book though :-)
I think sometimes people focus on learning vocabulary and kanji together and neglect mimetic words for which there are no kanji . . .
At least, I don't know nearly enough 擬態語 and 擬音語
 
Maybe they use す.もう to line up the furigana with the kanji, and accidentally typed 。 instead of .?
Or maybe they just randomly hit .
 
Yeah! One of those!
I don't know how people specify furigana in stuff like that
It makes me curious
 
擬態語 and 擬音語 are a huge problem for me
Especially the ones that aren't said outloud often but are just used as SFX in manga and such.
 
I've picked up a bunch just over time, but there are always a lot more I don't know
I think in manga they actually make up new ones often enough :-)
But there are patterns in sound symbolism
Like in English, where gl symbolizes light (glint, gleam, glimmer, glitz, glow, etc.)
And there are correlations between the sounds of 擬音語 and the real sounds they represent
 
5:15 AM
"glamour"...?
 
Hmm, maybe, but that's from grammar
 
lol
only to the linguistically minded
 
Like, /i/ is usually a higher pitched sound and /o/ usually lower pitched, and /a/ a clearer sound
@jkerian I mean in terms of etymology
Hehe
Grimoire, glamour, and grammar were originally the same word
 
sound-symbolism isn't really something that develops along with a words etymology though
hmm... how to say this... maybe... Given all the sources for words in a language, sound symbolism is an advantage on the "natural selection" part of language evolution... but this can be quite distinct from a common root of a particular sound to a meaning.
 
@Troyen へ
@DariusJahandarie たくさん?へえ
全部同じ人なんじゃないの
@DariusJahandarie あ~・・・もうない
 
5:35 AM
こいつはさわさんじゃないと思うからね。別の人だろう。スタイルが全然違う
 
さわさんのときもあったってこと・・・?
「纏める」がまた読めなかった
 
え?知らなかった?moderatorにアカウントを消させるためにばかな質問を投稿した。と思う。詳しくは知らないけど。
 
John Lawler's list of gl- words, which he says symbolize "reflected light (eye)": glaze glimmer glimpse gleam glance glare glow gloom
 
とにかく、この話したってどうにもならないだろうから、今回の荒らしをmoderatorたちに任せよう
 
glue?
 
5:43 AM
えええ・・・アカウント消して欲しかったら、プロフページのabout meにdelete this accountって書けばいいだけだと思ってた・・・
 
Glue, gluten, gloopy, glorp probably belong to another semantic group
 
Middle English: from Old French glu (noun), gluer (verb), from late Latin glus, glut-, from Latin gluten .
dank u wiki
 
The questions we've been seeing lately aren't related to the old batch of questions
 
That's what I thought.
 
They are from someone else.
I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to say more than that
 
5:46 AM
Rilakkuma brings popcorn.
 
hm I guessed that too, but it seemed quite different, thanks nonetheless — john2546 10 hours ago
I wonder what they thought was different
Maybe if they tried learning to write them then little differences in where the brush touches the paper wouldn't seem very different to them
I can only see little differences...
So I don't know what problem they had
When I was starting to read kana, there were certain ways of writing that caused me not to recognize them
 
I was mostly fine, though I once got confused by a こ that was completely connected
 
ひえええ
 
look like three carps
 
5:50 AM
読めない・・・
 
I remember not being able to read that
 
と?
 
It is! Isn't it weird? :-)
 
変~
昔の「と」?とか
 
5:54 AM
止だったのか・・・
 
Somehow I feel better knowing that it wasn't obvious to other people either :-)
It wasn't that exact と, but one written like it some years ago
Let's see... what else confused me
 
書道を長いことやってる人とかは、読める・・・たぶん
 
6:23 AM
so "akakatta" is the past tense of red
so to speak
but is that to say that something was previously red and no longer is?
or is just ordinary past tense, like if you asked me "What color was it?" and I said "It was red," which doesn't imply anything about its current color
hmm that could probably be a question on the site actually, should make one later
 
depends on the context?
maybe..
花 and 水 are both [LH], and why do 花が and 水が have different pitch accents?
[はなが]{LHL} [みずが]{LHH}
 
6:39 AM
just wild guess - because はな got な there and が is pronounced differently as the consequence?
 
Oh is it pronounced differently?
wait...
what about かわが
かわが(LHL)
hmm
Oh! 鼻が is LHH!
花 and 鼻 >> both [LH]
and 鼻が is [LHH] and 花が is [LHL]
みすてりー
 
Well, the way linguists describe it, the accent is the mora before the pitch drops
So in 花 the accent is on な, so there's a pitch drop after な
But the accent goes away if there's nothing after な
But 鼻 doesn't have an accent, so there's no pitch drop
So when you look up 花 in 大辞林 it says [2] weblio.jp/content/%E8%8A%B1
Because the accent is on the 2nd mora, な
 
鼻って、[HH] かな?
 
And when you look up 鼻 in 大辞林 weblio.jp/content/%E9%BC%BB it says [0], because there's no accent = no pitch drop anywhere
 
へええ・・・
 
6:52 AM
So dictionaries only mark where the pitch drop is
 
ティン草ぬ花♬♪
 
おおお
「鼻」ってさ・・
実際、文の中で使うときは、LH になるのに、
単独で言うときだけ高低がなくなる・・・?
いあいあ、私の鼻です、とか
わたしのはなです LHHHHHHL
わいt・・・
wait
あなたの鼻です、は?
あなたのはなです LHLL LHLL
???
アカン・・・
bらいn
えxpぉしおn
 
Hehehe
 
there must be some yayakoshii logic that I don't know of
 
Well, I'm just learning, but here is what I think based on what I've read:
There are two accent phrases わたしの(LHHH)|はなです(LHHL) . The first one has no accent, the second one has an accent because of で↓す. So when you run them together like a single phrase, it becomes わたしのはなで↓す(LHHHHHHL)
 
7:05 AM
おhhh
 
Iwasaki gives an example of putting accent phrases together, like if you say いち・にー・さん・しー you can say:
いち↘ にー↘ さん↘ しー↘ (four groups)
いちにー↘ さんしー↘ (two groups)
いちにーさんしー↘ (one group)
That's not "pitch accent" but
Putting phrases together and saying them like one phrase
Oh, I should have picked a better example...
Martin says...
Martin gives a bunch of examples of putting words together and pronouncing them like one phrase
 
maybe like 京都方面, きょうと(HLL)+ ほうめん(??)>> きょうとほうめん(LHHHLLL)
 
いっちにー、さんしー
 
@Choko There are rules for how you put these phrases together but they're complicated @_@;
I don't remember all of them
 
ややこしいわ
誰が作ったんやろ
 
7:09 AM
And you can end up pronouncing things differently if you put different phrases together or pronounce them separately
@Choko Hehe, I meant the "description" kind of rules :-)
Martin spends 10 pages on them
It's really tricky, though, linguists who study pitch accent find a lot of counterintuitive things
Like 「遅下がり」
 
遅下がり←new word to me
 
If you look at page 3
They found that even if the highest pitch in なみだ is in み, then it can still sound like HLL
 
the other day i asked some 高校生 if they knew 補助動詞 and they said they had never heard that word
 
Oh! I thought it would be part of learning 学校文法
 
高校で日本語文法習わないんかな?
ね~~~
そういう私も知らなかったんだけどさww
 
7:16 AM
Oh, you know what else is weird? Is the rules for the honorary prefix お-
Like the pitch accent of 仕事 → お仕事
Martin gives 6 pages of rules for お-...
It's too complicated to fit into my poor brain, hehe
 
脳内爆弾です。
 
おしごと LHLL しごと LHH
あら
 
Or 手伝い → お手伝い
 
bomb planted inside brain
 
Hehehe
 
7:23 AM
てつだい LHHL おてつだい LHLLL
「お」がつくと、
LHLL... になるとか
 
But
箸→お箸
 
えw!?
 
But...
 
おはし LHL
おかあさん LHLLL
 
猿→お猿
 
7:26 AM
(でござる)
 
HL→LHH?
 
おさる? LHL?
 
sorry for my silly comments :)
 
Is it LHL?
 
おさるさん LHHHH
 
7:26 AM
My book said it was LHH
 
ほお・・・
おさる・・・hmm
 
Ohh, but
The book says younger speakers say LHL
 
おさるわからんww
 
I didn't notice
 
which means...
im not young!
No
反対か
Yay im young!
 
7:28 AM
Hehe!
Maybe LHLLL is the most common pattern for お-
 
Oh but!!
おまつり
LHHH
 
I'd say 猿 as HL but お猿 as LHH
being very young though
 
おおお
 
静か→お静か?
 
しずか HLL おしずかに LHHHH
 
7:30 AM
HHL -> never used second one but just by intuition LHLL
 
Oh, how about 薬→お薬?
 
くすり LHH おくすり LHHL
 
lol, started to pronounce it as らく
LLL, LHHL, no?
 
薬=やく?
like まやく?
 
just messed with 楽
because 猿 and 楽 are somewhat "close"
 
7:34 AM
What is close about them?
 
linguistically probably nothing, nothing more than self-感覚
we have 猿楽町 next to here, that's why probably
I always imagine happy monkeys when going through there
 
Ohh, now they're close, they're right next to each other! :-)
Unibrow monkey
 
yes, this one.
there's aso 鶯谷 next to 猿楽
funnily the person who does 書道 all the time and is native japanese was not able to parse 鶯 at first
 
Oh, ウグイス again!
 
yes
 
7:38 AM
@Rilakkuma Uncommon kanji are hard! :-)
It's easy to learn a kanji, but it's hard to remember it for years and years if you don't see it very often
 
使わないと忘れます・・・
たぶん忘れる・・
3日くらいで
 
火火冖 + 鳥
 
火火鳥
ひひどり
:D
 
ひひわどり
ワ → 冖
 
why 火火? do they cry ヒヒ~?
my dictionary says only male turkeys say "gobble gobble"
 
7:44 AM
it is quite puzzling why dogs say "bark bark"
 
so how about female turkeys?
 
why turkeys by the way?
 
たまたま辞書を開いただけ・・・
 
鶯 is not really a turkey.
ah ok :)
 
I guess 𤇾 was for the Chinese sound, yīng... I don't know what meaning it added
They're cute! :-) 𤇾 is supposed to symbolize 'brilliant, bright'
They don't really look that brilliant / bright
But...
I guess in China 鶯 was originally for a different bird
 
7:47 AM
ああ!
日本人の知らない日本語で
魚の名前の漢字を間違ってつけたってのと
同じことが起こったんだ
 
I wonder if I can remember 火、火、ワ、鳥
@Choko I remember reading about umm...
鮎 and 鯰
 
あゆ!
と・・・
なまず?
 
Hehe! 正解〜〜
I read that 鯰 is a 国字
And that in China 鮎 was なまず instead of あゆ
 
おhh
 
lol
翻車魚 ...
 
7:52 AM
What's that?
 
まんぼう
 
Hehe, I didn't know that :-)
 
sort of shark (i think) which consists of head and pretty much nothing more
yes, this one
 
Wikipedia says it's called an "ocean sunfish" in English
I don't know what a sunfish is
But they look pretty interesting!
 
manbow とかじゃないの
 
7:54 AM
indeed they are! Their children are "normal" fishes by the way
 
日本語だったのか・・・
 
日本国語大辞典 says:
> 歴史的かなづかいは、通常「まんばう」とするが、語源未詳
 

« first day (1240 days earlier)