Board and Card Games

The nice thing about exponentially branching games is that we don't actually take exponential time to play them, because we use heuristics to eliminate large numbers of options

For example, in that puzzle, whenever you have only one Pod untapped, you can eliminate any Pod activation that does not allow you to win or untap your Pods

Waterseas

^ Which is why that first pod puzzle was actually really simple, looking back at it.

You only had a single option for the first 4 steps.

murgatroid99

Of course, computers can use heuristics too, which is why they are actually capable of playing chess in real time, but for Magic, the heuristics are much more complex and situational

Rainbolt

8:31 PM

@Waterseas There was an alternative option at one point. You could put out the Elf and grab a Forest, which allowed for another painless pod activation.

I pursued that solution as far as it could go, and I was just about to switch to the other path when you posted your answer

Waterseas

Three drop, you had to get pestermite to untap, because you needed to use voltaic key at 4 drop.

There was no 4 drop that could untap the pod

"Tap Forest, float a green.
Kiora's Followers Activate targeting Forest.
Tap Plains, use floating green to pod Kiora’s Followers - > Pestermite
Pestermite trigger targetting Birthing Pod
1 Forest 5 Plains 1 Life
Tap Forest and Plains, pod Pestermite - > Obstinate Baloth
4 Plains 5 Life
Voltaic Key targetting Birthing Pod
3 Plains 5 Life
Tap plains, pay 2 life, pod Obstinate Baloth - > Karmic Guide"

That all had to be a given, again, looking back at it

Rainbolt

Yes, there is only one path for the first four pod activations that doesn't lead to a dead end two steps later.

Waterseas

Mmhmm, which is why I mentioned before it shouldn't have taken me as long as it did to figure it out. Didn't catch that early.

Rainbolt

8:48 PM

He also changed the rules while you were writing

For example, Avalanche Riders could have destroyed a land which could later be returned by Twilight Shepherd and then played. You may have wasted time investigating that line when he changed the rules.

Waterseas

Nah, there wasn't a way to take advantage of that. Took like only a minute to consider that.

Rainbolt

Sometimes I get annoyed by the weirdest things that people say

Waterseas

Oh?

Rainbolt

I was explaining that you might have wasted time with him changing the rules

And I know you spent a significant amount of time before arriving at the conclusion that the rules needed help

I was just giving an example of that when you said "Nah."

"You may have wasted time" is weird because it was true when I said it, but isn't true now that you have negated it.

And I was explaining how there was an alternate step in the first four steps

And you went off on some tangent about the first 12-16 steps

I figured out afterwards that step = pod activation

But it's just so tedious to even bother pointing it out

Hence the "Sometimes I get annoyed by the weirdest things that people say"

Waterseas

I was not taking into account alternate steps that didn't allow for future-proofing essentially.

I didn't really waste much time before him changing the rules, because I was able to catch the Twilight Shepherd issue quickly when I reached 6-drop, as I've had the same issue before, thinking that Twilight Shephered returned to play.

Rainbolt

9:00 PM

Don't worry, it isn't your fault anyway. As murgatroid pointed out, it's mostly me not trying hard enough to decrypt other people's messages.

Waterseas

Mmm, admittedly have found it significantly more difficult to do in this chat than usual.

Also have found that I'm worse at wording things in this chat for some reason

Though to be fair, my ex often times seemed to have issues understanding what I thought were simple explanation of mine, so perhaps my explanations are just worse than I think.

Rainbolt

Maybe I'm your ex.

murgatroid99

I think it's harder in general to have certain kinds of conversations in a chat room like this. The fact that there's no typing indicator means that people end up talking over each other, and it can be hard to tell quickly that your explanation doesn't mean what you think it does to the person you're talking to

Rainbolt

We would be a happy bunch if we were all in TeamSpeak or Ventrilo

I know because I spend every evening in TeamSpeak or Ventrilo

Waterseas

Given that you have stated you are female, tis unlikely @Rainbolt XD Unless you're not the ex I was talking about.

Been a long while since I've been in Ventrilo or Teamspeak

Rainbolt

9:06 PM

Hmmmm.....

murgatroid99

9:20 PM

@Waterseas This may sound weird, but a while ago I actually searched to see if Rainbolt had explicitly mentioned that, and I couldn't find anything. I thought it would be rude to ask

Waterseas

Definitely sounds a bit weird. Tis entirely possible I'm mis-remembering

murgatroid99

I meant that it might be weird that I did it, but I'm fine with your interpretation

Waterseas

Nupe, was agreeing with you XD Those were seperate thoughts

murgatroid99

Oh

Waterseas

That is one thing I have a tendency to do, is combine multiple thoughts in a single response

Rainbolt

9:33 PM

Sorry, one of my coworkers pulled me aside for a discussion. I'm definitely a dude.

Waterseas

Ahh, hmm, not really sure why I thought otherwise then

murgatroid99

I can guess: he's mentioned his boyfriend before. Actually, that's probably why I went searching in the first place: I didn't want to assume anything

Rainbolt

Here's why I think you thought otherwise. Somewhere between 1.6 and 11 percent (studies are all over the place on this one) of people in the US identify as gay or bisexual. I have a boyfriend, and I've mentioned it in this chat before. If you had to guess whether I was male or female, you would reasonably take the 90% odds over the 10% odds.

Then after you stand with that guess for a few months, your mind plays tricks on you and you convince yourself that I stated it.

Waterseas

XD That's probably the case actually, which is a bit silly when I myself am not straight.

Especially since the female-male ratio of magic players actually probably balances out that statistic

Rainbolt

Funny story. I used to have a friend who was a dude. Zhe - I don't even care if this is the correct term, because it seems to change every month - had a sex change operation after I had already moved to another city. I referred to zher in a comment on Facebook as a he, and got a huge rant in response about how I should have checked zher profile before using a pronoun, and that I shouldn't assume that just because I knew him as a guy that he would still be a guy.

Waterseas

9:45 PM

Mmm, admittedly not that surprising, in my experience at least. Also have never heard of "Zhe/Zher" >.>

Rainbolt

I'd understand if we kept in touch after college

Or if I even knew the operation had happened

I don't open people's About Me every time I talk about people.

Waterseas

I find it amusing how offended some people get for others making logical assumptions that turn out to be incorrect.

murgatroid99

The way I see it, the reasonable response to someone using the wrong pronoun is to correct them, and only get mad if you already corrected them (with the current correct value)

Rainbolt

And this wasn't like "behind the back" commenting. It was like "He looks like he is having a great time!".

Waterseas

@murgatroid99 Exactly, and depending on how long the person knew you previously, perhaps give a bit of leeway for time to adapt.

@Rainbolt I figured that's how you meant

I always find the comparison shared on facebook comparing pronoun changes to pokemon name changes upon evolution to be hilarious.

Rainbolt

9:50 PM

Zher, I choose you!

Waterseas

Zher... what does that mean?

Rainbolt

Gender-specific and gender-neutral pronouns

A gender-specific pronoun is a pronoun associated with a particular grammatical gender, such as masculine, feminine, or neuter, or with a social gender (or sex), such as female or male. Examples include the English third-person personal pronouns he and she. A gender-neutral pronoun, by contrast, is a pronoun that is not associated with a particular grammatical or social gender and that does not imply, for instance, male or female. Many English pronouns are gender-neutral, including they (which in certain contexts can also refer to a singular antecedent such as everyone, a person, or the patient...

Waterseas

Ahh, have only ever heard Shi/hir before.

Rainbolt

She and Shi sounds the same, right? Or am I missing the pronunciation?

murgatroid99

I just go with the singular "they"

Rainbolt

9:55 PM

I go to unnecessary lengths to avoid needing a pronoun at all. And after years of unnecessary practice, I pretty much have it figured out.

Waterseas

@Rainbolt Seem so, though have only had it used in text before.

@murgatroid99 Unfortunately, I struggle to use singular "they" in speech honestly

Yeah, I'm sorta the same but with using names, because I have a terrible memory for them.

diego

@Rainbolt It could also be pronounced like 'shy'

Rainbolt

I figured it must be shy, since shi with a soft 'i' sounds too close to shit to be used as a pronoun.

Waterseas

Its actually weird that "Hir" is used for gender neutral, considering its origins.

Rainbolt

Is that prounced "hear"?

Waterseas

9:57 PM

Mmm, also unsure

Rainbolt

as in hee-er, but all one syllable?

Waterseas

Its middle english in origins if that helps

Rainbolt

Haha

Thank you Google

murgatroid99

You're welcome

Waterseas

Bahaha XD

Rainbolt

10:15 PM

Lol. Team says, "Let's swarm this 32 man-hour user story." Story is done two hours later. We only have four developers.

murgatroid99

Oh, maybe I should mention this here too

Google is doing a Starwars collaboration promotion thing

Rainbolt

We are terrible as estimating how long it will take to do some things. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we miss terribly.

Waterseas

At least you get to set your timeline v.v

murgatroid99

@Rainbolt I think that's one of those things that's universal to programming

Or in general

Hofstadter's law

Hofstadter's law is a self-referential time-related adage, coined by Douglas Hofstadter and named after him. Hofstadter's law was a part of Douglas Hofstadter's 1979 book Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. The law is a statement regarding the difficulty of accurately estimating the time it will take to complete tasks of substantial complexity. It is often cited amongst programmers, especially in discussions of techniques to improve productivity, such as The Mythical Man-Month or extreme programming. The recursive nature of the law is a reflection of the widely experienced difficulty...

Rainbolt

10:34 PM

@Waterseas We don't get to set our timeline. We get tasks and we get told how long we have to complete them. Then we pretend that we are Agile and we estimate stuff.

We are as agile as we can be without further buy-in from project management

We just recently began swarming stories

It's fun to get a thing done and tested and put behind you in a day.

Waterseas

@Rainbolt Ahh, fair enough XD

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Board and Card Games