@MoriDoweedhYaAgob that is not what I am talking about
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob The Shia half believe in the Quran, they also bring contradicting interpretation to the clear verses, which the Quran itself says it is clear, and they call it hidden meanings
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob they bring Ahadeeth yes, but they have no knowledge in Uloom Al Hadith, they cannot check whether it is authentic or not, and if they do then they would find many things to their surprise
@Daniel no, we cannot say they are not Muslim, but we can say that they have deviated from the teachings of Islam, and have aspects of Shirk, but that does not make them automatically non-Muslim
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I do not know. They do have Isra'eeliyat, and so do we,it is simply Ahadeeth from the Sahabah who for example converted from Judaism or chirstianity and they narrate what those religions taught that is basically in accordance with Islam.
@Daniel because not many realize that these sects have nothing to do with Islam, and that these sects are rather among the Muslims, and this is not Muslims.SE.
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob that is what you claim, and this is what I am telling you, if you want to follow what you say then ok, and if you do not want to heard what I say, because I do not know my own religion nor the other sects, then ok
@AlUmmatمجاهد same thing as original christians. they followed torah but also their own teachings. they cant be jewish. they are no sect/religion called christianity. although it is jewish sect we cant call them jews also because people will be confused. so they are called christian
@AlUmmatمجاهد It seems like a problem, though, that Shia cannot answer questions here without being downvoted, even if they answer correctly according to their tradition
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob no, the Injeel was simply to back up the Torah, since the Torah was very strict and harsh, it came to a people and that message had to match that people who where slaves and were freed, so the Injeel came to lighten it a bit
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob if he disbelieves in the Quran, which without it where is Islam? do you think he can be Muslim? @MoriDoweedhYaAgob The Shia half believe in the Quran, they also bring contradicting interpretation to the clear verses, which the Quran itself says it is clear, and they call it hidden meanings
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob You are following Ali's example and making broad statements about a religion in which you are not an expert based on nitpicking the word-choice of laypeople
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob when I mean by half of the Quran, I mean picking verses, and taking them out of context, and leaving off others, and twisting others to make them mean what they want it to mean. Secondly whether it makes them non-Muslim or not is not the point, those that do this have deviated, and not necessarily became non-Muslim
@Daniel Ya , this always made me curious and unconvinced as to how a religion can focus on genelogy when Adam, Abraham etc never followed such esoteric rules
@Daniel I read the 613 mitzovah and I can hardly find any of it that we dont follow, (not considering the temple\israel related laws which even the Jews dont follow). I Would say Muslims follow most of them and those which are not followed then its essence is followed
@Daniel tzzit , sukkah etc would also be related to the temple
as you no longer have the temple
@Daniel Most it does, infact you would find more muslims following torah laws then Jews
and as you said following the torah laws is just an Obligation , one just misses it if he is not following that Obligation(e.g Idolatry) and a Jew does not loose Jewishness if he is not following an Obligation
So cant you see the Muslims are in this approximation, they follow most of the mitzovahs, if not all
@MonicaCellio I maybe wrong so can anybody be wrong, rejecting views only because it does not belong to our race\culture etc is not constructive. Thanks, need to go
@SethJ Let us remove religion from here and talk in terms of programming languages , C, C++ . If a person X uses a C program then the person Y: a C++ programmer should have no qualms in accepting the C program as it is still a valid C++ program. Similarly a C programmer X should welcome the change and benefits bought by the C++ programs without compromising the optimization benefits of a C program
