If I may throw out the question: why (at least for most people IME) when someone comes along and says "really kadma and pashta should have different sounds, and here's the tradition how" people say "oh my teacher didn't know that nuance but i'll learn it now", but if someone says "really ד and דּ have these different sounds, and here's the tradition how" people say "oh my teacher didn't know that nuance, and i refuse to adapt"?
Why is there no qamas qatan in הָיְתָ֣ה? The only reason I can think of is that the ת has no dagesh, but then a word like אַלְפֵי should receive a shewa na`, which I wouldn't normally give it.
@IsaacMoses Do you have any reason to believe centuries of Ashkenazi Jewry weren't just ignorant (or more politely, [largely] lost the tradition) about the pronunciation of ד? I have strong reason to suspect they were, and I suspect you agree.
I don't know on what basis you call one a "community norm" and not the other. We can make up incredibly large communities of people who don't know what a Shva Na is, with a little bit of transportation.
@DoubleAA Or dagesh in general TBH. OTOH, one (ד דּ) is a feature of the language, and one (kadma/pashta) is a feature unique to leyening, and many (most?) don't see these characteristics as intertwined. Or (suggested by my wife): kadma/pashta was lost relatively recently compared to ד/דּ.
@DoubleAA OK. That's pretty much the basis on which I adopted pronunciation of 'ayin. I tried to adopt a hhet, differentiating it from chaf, and it never stuck. When I get that one done, maybe I'll try to learn another dagesh kal or two.
@DoubleAA R' Rakeffet sometimes talks about "puk chazi" and cites some authority (sorry; I forget whom) saying that that means "go see how the people who generally care about halacha do it," not "go see how the median Jew does it." So, m. m., here
(See his Jewish history lectures about the Conservative movement, maybe about four years ago
)
It does happen to be that quite a few of the teachers I've had who cared about dikduk did pronounce the 'ayin but did not differentiate chet from chaf or dalet from dhalet.
@msh210 @DoubleAA @Scimonster I'm trying to record my own recording of this, but I keep having to stop 'cause I'm shuckling and my wife keeps bursting into laughter and it won't make a good recording.
@magicker72 You'll probably have a much easier time starting with ו ד ת and ג than ח, as those are all sounds that you know already and use in language.
@DoubleAA I just re-listened to my recording and afaict the first syllable is cut off so (unless that's a function of something on my end and you hear more) I don't know how you can tell where I put the stress in that word. Certainly I should have said it mil'ra; I don't recall how I did say it.
@magicker72 My apologies. The reader I heard this morning was a Yeki and I immediately realized that I what you did was clearly Milra. I was just getting confused about my Yeki trop.
Is this tag union working for anybody else? I'm only seeing the questions with the first tag; if I flip the order I see the ones with the other. But I'm not seeing the union.
@Scimonster community events are on hold until either I can solve this problem ^^^ or some other mod comes along and figures it out. (I really wish the community could help with these!)
It seems to me that fixed, admin-generated parts of the front page (as opposed to Q&A titles, which are clearly user-generated) should meet a high bar for stability and appropriateness. So, for example, they should be very unlikely to ever be the subject of an edit war or of a rogue user making t...
Ew. I googled for the list of weekly torah portions with dates (for a sanity check while I filled out the next few events), and one of the first hits had another column on the page: "gospels". Ick.
