@Dennis could you pull stacked please?

@Cyoce Could you provide an example program?

@ConorO'Brien Done.

thanks!

@Dennis Could you pull Charcoal? Thanks!

@ASCII-only Done.

@Dennis For what purpose?

To check if everything's working as intended. A simple Hello World program would do.

put = :puts & $>
put ^ "Hello, World!"

@Dennis

@Cyoce Should that say... nevermind, you edited it.

@Cyoce tio.run/nexus/…

I've classified J-uby as recreational for now. Is that correct?

@Dennis Nice! Thanks for putting up with my sleep-deprived efforts to understand what you needed me to do.

:)

@Dennis You could write practical code with it, but it will most likely end up being used recreationally. That is correct.

OK. It's not set in stone and I respect the author's classification, so just let me know if it becomes practical in your opinion.

@Dennis Can you pull Charcoal? Thanks

@ASCII-only Done.

@Dennis Can I request TacO be added..?

I'll add it first thing in the morning. I'll need a sample program to test if it works, preferably Hello World.

All good, @"Hello, World!" does the trick.

@ATaco There seems to be an issue.

lua: main.lua:7: attempt to concatenate a nil value (local 'p')
stack traceback:
        main.lua:7: in function 'require'
        main.lua:13: in main chunk
        [C]: in ?

Oh, lua ./main.lua works. lua main.lua does not.

Btw, functions.lua uses loadfile instead of require, so I still have to link the files from the directory.

RProg-N has a similar problem with sugar.txt.

Oh, I need go look into that but I'm on a train right now

Lua is a pain in the ass with how it handles working directories

Whenever if convenient for you. I'll fix it in the wrapper for now.

When I get to a computer I about an hour and a half I'll be able to make it use the working dir, same for RProgN

@ATaco tio.run/nexus/taco#@@@g5JGak5OvoxCeX5SToqj0/z8A

Awesome! Thanks~

@Adám Can I install both unicode and classic RPMs at the same time?

@AndrewSavinykh Yes.

@Adám do you happen to know what directory dnf install installs the dyalog apl RPM to?

@AndrewSavinykh I'd assume it goes to /opt/mdyalog as other installers do.

@Adám So then the difference will be /opt/mdyalog/15.0/64/unicode and /opt/mdyalog/15.0/64/classic ?

@AndrewSavinykh That's right. So too, 32-bit versions will go in .../32/... and 16.0 will go in .../16.0/...

@Adám This github.com/TryItOnline/arena-server/blob/master/wrappers/… is the current apl wrapper. Do you think that for classic anything needs to be different (except the /opt/mdyalog/15.0/64/classic path we just discussed)?

@AndrewSavinykh That looks good. The differences between Classic and Unicode are really minor. E.g. they both read UTF-8 files, but Classic translates 256 code points to single bytes, and signals a TRANSLATION ERROR if it gets any other codepoints.

Also the ones' place of the data type for character data is 2 in Classic, but 0 in Unicode.

Try it online! ← Gives 80 (8-bit UnicodeChar). If you switch language to Dyalog Classic, it should give 82 (which means 8-bit ClassicChar).

@Adám, okay, thanks alot for all this info, I'll try that now

@AndrewSavinykh Try it online! ← Should give ⍤ on Unicode, TRANSLATION ERROR on Classic.

@Dennis Can you pull Charcoal? Thanks (and sorry for bothering you so often)

@Adám looks like I'm doing something wrong tio2.tryitonline.nz/nexus/apl-dyalog-classic#@////6O@qS5B6uoA (Note that it's not TIO, it's a mirror)

@AndrewSavinykh Ouch, you have a CONTINUE.dws file. Delete it.

Why do I have it I wonder... it's a fresh install

okay let me find it and delete it

@AndrewSavinykh Well, if you run APL and then quit without saving, it will make a CONTINUE workspace so you don't lose your work.

but the entire sandbox is getting cleaned up. There could be nothing there

@Adám I installed it exactly as the unicode version

@AndrewSavinykh But if you played around before creating the image...

there is no "CONTINUE.dws" I can find

I did not

@AndrewSavinykh Hang on. I'm having Support take a look.

@Adám If you need me to run anything at the command line, please let me know, just be mindful that I know almost zero of APL. It seems that similar output is given no matter what the input is

@AndrewSavinykh Yes, I'm sitting with an expert next to me.

@AndrewSavinykh It appears that the translate table is wrong. Working on it...

@Adám let me try

@Adám tio2.tryitonline.nz/nexus/apl-dyalog-classic#@////6O@qS5B6upf8/…

Now I get 82, but I also get this Debug Output which I'm not getting with unicode

@Adám any idea why?

@AndrewSavinykh The default scripting settings for Classic and Unicode differ.

@Adám is this a problem?

@AndrewSavinykh No, it isn't a problem, but we should be able to turn it off with some switches. Working on it...

@AndrewSavinykh So, no, it cannot be turned off. The Unicode interpreter checks for #! and goes into scripting mode. Classic does not have this facility, because we try to persuade people to move from Classic to Unicode. So if they want "clean" scripting, they should use Unicode. TL;DR: Don't worry about it.

Okay, thank you for you help

@Dennis I'll create a pull request for the above in a minute, could you please review/merge when convenient?

@AndrewSavinykh My pleasure. Any time – that's what DSS is for.

@Adám if you would like to test some other code/input for the classic version please feel free to do so at that URL, if there are any issues or inconsistencies please let us know

@betseg So here you see above ↑ what happens when a DSS customer needs help.

Support and Development were on it right away, and we even considered changing our product to fit the customer's need (although I blocked it, since this doesn't matter).

@AndrewSavinykh Seems to work. Another effect of Classic not being "scripting ready" is that all input is mirrored in STDERR.

Classic is not exactly graceful when piped non-Classic characters, but hey, we are abusing it, so so what?

@Adám, alrighty, time for me to sleep. @Dennis will review and push to TIO once he has a moment, he is usually quite speedy with this stuff

@AndrewSavinykh Thank you for your efforts.

@ASCII-only Done. Don't worry about it. It's just one command.

@Mego But then there is the problem of spambots/sock accounts

@Mego That creates weird incentives. People would delete their old permalinks to make new ones, contributing to link rot. I'd rather run the client-side link through the goo.gl API before doing this...

@KritixiLithos I mentioned throttling long ago. Spambots is still an issue in the current state iirc

@KritixiLithos Spambots are easy: require a CAPTCHA to create a new account.

s/is/are/

@Dennis What about just for saving snippets? Right now I can make trivial changes to code and save a snippet without limits

You're going to probably want to rate limit on ip address or something

@Mego If you can't edit permalinks, storage requirements are even higher. At least for me, it's not uncommon to edit the same links 20 times for a single PPCG answer.

@Poke I'm fairly certain I can prevent misuse somehow; "honest" permalinks are what worry me. If I get to a point where I have to pay X dollars per month for storage, I have to pay that for the rest of TIO's existence, even if I disable creation of new ones.

@Mego That's precisely what I like about server-side ones: when you edit your answer, you don't have to change the link.

Yes, exactly. Another option would be to offer a way to store projects in your account, but not to share them as permalinks. You'd still be able to pick up your work from device A on device B, switch between projects without having dozens of open tabs, etc. If that goes sideways, I could simply give prior notice before nuking the project, so users could download their saved work.

To their machine, local storage, or whatever.

integrate with github and save snippets there... or something along that vein

@Adám Uh, I don't have access to Classic anymore.

(just spit-balling ideas)

@Dennis Uh-oh. I'm on it.

Thanks!

@Dennis What can you access?

Unicode, 32 and 64 bits.

@AndrewSavinykh You have Linux Classic, no?

@Dennis You had access to Classic before?

I did.

And I can see in the setup script that @AndrewSavinykh has too.

@Adám Heh, I managed to download it anyway. Still doesn't show up on MyDyalog though.

@Dennis Huh? Maybe email me about how you did that? adam@

Just a sec.

Gah, no names, please. :P

@Dennis Oh, sorry.

Yep, Classic is back. Thanks!

@Dennis Good. I'm really sorry about the name. I didn't see your email. Otherwise I would have answered by email.

No worries, I nuked it immediately.

Do you still not see the email? Did it perhaps go to your spam folder?

@Dennis I got it. My emails to @dyalog.com are delayed because I use gmail to fetch them, and gmail does not allow me to set a high polling rate.

Right. That's why I manage my own mail server. ;)

@Adám @AndrewSavinykh Try it online! Thank you both for making this happen!

@Adám I've renamed the Unicode version to APL (Dyalog APL Unicode) and switched the encoding to UTF-8. I hope that's OK.

@Dennis It's fine, but I think "APL" is redundant. @AndrewSavinykh left it out.

Shoot, there was a pull request for that as well and I just edited the file. Sleep depravation is a harsh mistress. >_>

@Dennis Well, at least you don't sleep with her ;-)

hahahaha

Great, the PR has conflicts now. No idea how to deal with that.

Sleep for a few hours?

I haven't properly learned Git despite using it for a year and a half. Sleep won't magically fix that. :P

Exactly.

My friends think I'm a wizard because I can always fix git problems, in reality I just do git add *;git commit -m foo; git pull; git merge; git push until it works without errors.

git push -f if it still doesn't work.

The glob won't work as it should if there are dotfiles. git add . is more reliable.

No one I work with knows what a dotfile is.

@Adám Yes. Is it sorted for @Dennis now?

Yes, all good.

Hi, @Dennis. According to Octave's ver command in TIO, it seems that the packages statistics, io and image are not installed. I'm fairly certain that you took care of that in the past, but they seem to be missing. Can you check? The command to install them with autoload (required by MATL, and convenient also for Octave) is pkg rebuild -auto image, and same for the other two packages

@LuisMendo They're indeed not installed. I'll fix that asap.

@LuisMendo Fixed. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

@Dennis Thanks to you! Always so quick to help

@Dennis the Pathway bugs should have been fixed, let me know if there are any more issues.

For TacO, atleast.

@ATaco Yep, it's fixed. :)

Awesome, someone tell Lua to get a better system of handling Working Directories.

heh

Did you work on RProg-N as well?

Not yet, but I'll fix that up shortly.

Just checking.

@Dennis I'm not sure if this is a good idea but I kinda want command mode to extend to the main screen e.g. press i to expand input and focus

@ASCII-only Yes, command mode is just a little more than a proof of concept for now. The whole TIO has to be keyboard-friendlier, starting with the language selection.

oh ok

So many ideas, so little time...