If you approach Islam with an ambition to prove it wrong.... you would never benefit from this great religion.... I ask Allah to guide you my brother to Islam
I see them. I just wondered if you have a particular recommendation. I have many studies. It might take me a long time to watch them all. If you recommend one, I can get the message more quickly
Insulting Muhammad, or Islam, or God. I do not understand why this is so important. Muslims tell me that an insult to God is like an insult to my mother. This is a terrible thing to say about God. He is not an old woman who needs protection
This is from Nouman Ali Khan (on insulting Allah, may he be glorified and exalted) (it has a little recitation of Quran in the beginning) : youtube.com/watch?v=Btsvfuu2eE4 ()
@TIPS I realize it isn't strictly related to Islam. But I am having a conversation with a Muslim. If I were having a conversation with a Christian who thinks it is acceptable to punch someone in the face over an insult, I would say the same thing. I would say it to anyone who says they get their morals from the Supreme Being of the universe.
Forgive me, but I don't see the value in saying "You're looking at it the wrong way." In my experience, people who say such things are not so interested in helping me to understand, but rather simply showing me how I'm wrong. Similarly for "please enlighten me". These are not things people usually say when they are trying to help me to understand something. However, I will withhold judgement for the moment, to see how our conversation goes.
Many Muslims have given me the example of an insult to someone I love, and many of them have made the same assumption, that I would react violently to such an insult. But invariably, people who make such claims about me know nothing about me. I am not bothered at all by an insult to someone I love. If someone states a fact about my loved ones, then it is a fact, and it is pointless for me to become angry. If someone states their opinion about my loved ones, well, I don't care.
I don't care what anyone thinks about my loved ones.
Opinions cannot hurt my loved ones. If someone causes physical suffering to my loved ones, that is different. But in that case, my loved ones don't get special treatment. I would try to stop physical suffering to any living creature, not only my loved ones.
I decline to describe my understanding of the Muslim view of God. Your request seems a little too loaded, given your assertion that I'm "looking at it the wrong way", and your use of "enlighten me". I imagine anything I say would be met with your disapproval, or perhaps even hostility.
I refer you back to @Abcd's question, "So what keeps you away from accepting Islam ?" If you are interested in my reasons, interested in listening and understanding, not so interested in telling me I'm wrong, I will gladly discuss it further with you.
I am not concerned with whether you think I'm wrong. I do not mean that rudely, I just mean that I see no value in discussing whether I'm right or wrong.
Ok, so if he said he will do something, and he doesn't do it, then maybe you would think something is wrong. Maybe it wasn't really God who said it, something like that
So when I hear that God is ok with people punching each other over insults, I think something is wrong, like maybe God doesn't like it, but Muhammad didn't hear him
Let's see how many Muslims live in the world that don't punch other people for insults, don't go terrorist, don't go terrifying an ant, let alone a country of human beings.
"This quote says this, and our great grand religious master sensei guy said it means that, which means we should do <horrible thing>"
@GreatBigBore The Islamic view is that since Bibles in Jesus and Moses's time were very specific, their content was changed a bit according to what the powers that be pleased.
So Quran is very unspecific.
Very general remarks.
Some verses are open to numerous interpretations, some contradicting the others.
Well, first I'd have to know whether you guys accept certain parts of the Gospels as valid. If Muhammad rejected the parts I'm thinking of, then I could allow that the Jesus he speaks of was a good man
The story where the rich man hires underemployed day laborers and says he will pay them "whatever is right". Then the man pays them all the same, whether they worked all day or only one hour. Jesus defends the rich man. Would Muhammad say Jesus actually told that story?
He pbuh advised us not to read the books of the people of the book lest we might believe in something not revealed by our Lord and disbeliever in something revealed by our Lord
In order to prevent that, the way to go is to speak generally, and not about a specific person or people's beliefs. So you know, the mutual respect remains intact.
TBH, there are so many hoaxes lying around about different religions, from even the followers of those religions, that I never trust anything I hear about <holy person> anymore, when I haven't heard it before, @Great.
I don't think we can change this now. If you like, you can create a new room on the intended target site, and then I can help you move the messages from here to there.
@GreatBigBore so, if/when you create the new room (remember to choose the parent site, there's a drop down menu) feel free to ping me and I can move you all there.
Then you're good. Certainly living in a place where most people around you aren't Muslims has taught you well enough not to need the advice of people like me.
@Abcd I watched the first one, then had a family situation. I looked at the other two and saw that they are very long. I don't mean to seem ungrateful, but I have so much to study. Often when someone tells me to watch a long video or read a long post, I go all the way through and cannot find what I had hoped to find. I don't mean to suggest you would give me an unhelpful link, but this happens to me often.
I really don't have an hour or two hours to spend on sifting. Could you point me to the part in the second and third videos that discusses the issue of insults?
Hi @goldPseudo, a welcome surprise
I accidentally created this room on the wrong forum. @terdon said he could move it to islam.SE, but I think he must be out enjoying his weekend.
I'm not sure it's appropriate. Admittedly I didn't look into the chat rules before I created it. I was trying to avoid a personal conversation in the comments.
I'll copy over the recent stuff and invite the other guys here, and then I have to start earning my paycheck. Thanks again, and thanks so much for all your help and feedback on the main site. If you happen to see me blunder (very likely), please do let me know.
only ones i left in the old room are the ones basically asking me to move everything. so ELU users aren't confused why there's a big empty room on their site :p
@GreatBigBore It might be a bit tangential to what you're discussing here, but i am curious what exactly about the parable of the laborers you take issue with, that you think it makes Jesus a "horrible person"
and yes, Muhammad was aware of the story (if not the exact biblical text). he used the same parable in hadith.
@goldPseudo Jesus told many, many stories that I find horrible. But as for that one in particular, the rich man acted in bad faith. He should have disclosed his policy, allowing the laborers to make an informed decision. Further, the rich man had absolutely nothing to gain from this behavior. He wasn't even being greedy; he was just being cruel. Jesus should have condemned him, but as you know, in the story, the man represents God.
Only for the later laborers. The first laborers were given a definite wage.
They're the ones who felt slighted because they were given exactly what they agreed to, but the others who didn't agree to that wage ended up getting a better deal.
If they had known (if he had told them) that he was going to hire others later in the day and pay them the same, then they (the first ones) could have made an informed decision.
if i'm an employer, and i choose to pay one worker x dollars and another worker y dollars for whatever reason, that doesn't really mean that i've slighted either.
if i apply to work for a job, i don't expect the employer to disclose what the other people in the company are making. i can make a sufficiently-informed decision just based on average market wages for my job.
Those hired earlier could have done something else with their time, like perhaps do other work until later in the day, and have some extra money to feed their children.
These are underemployed day-laborers, poverty-stricken. They don't have the advantage of studying the market. They are at the mercy of those who can afford to pay them.
Islamic Evangelism
Islamic Evangelism