TeX, LaTeX and Friends

@PauloCereda: The lack of confident of saadtaame was disturbing ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Indeed. :)

@PauloCereda: Say, what has @DavidCarlisle ever done for us? ;-)

egreg

@ChristianHupfer xspace

12:30 AM

@egreg: :D

Paul Gessler

^^ @DavidCarlisle @PauloCereda When [David] started working with vim

Naughty @PaulGessler :-P

saadtaame

i am on windows, what does the 2058 mean? @PauloCereda

@saadtaame: Perhaps the number of daily reboots on a Windows machine?

saadtaame

what's that supposed to mean? @ChristianHupfer

percusse

1:46 AM

@PauloCereda hehehe

Nasser

4:24 AM

I am always confused about fonts in latex. Do I need to include both of these packages in all my latex files?
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}

!Mathematica graphics

the above is from this pdf file https://github.com/gpoore/pythontex/tree/master/pythontex_quickstart
should I follow the above guidelines?

Even if I am not using pythontex, but for all my latex files? as it says above?

6:54 AM

@Nasser inputenc is about input, fontenc is about output

@Nasser Both XeTeX and LuaTeX are natively Unicode so don't need inputenc, while the font set up in these engines is best managed using fontspec (again using a Unicode encoding)

8:29 AM

@Nasser you only need inputenc (on classic tex) if you have non-ascii characters in your input. [T1]{fontenc} is probably a god idea always in classic tec, although if using the default cm fonts and no accented characters its arguably better to not use it (or equivalently use [OT1]) although the differences betwen T1 and OT1 are less if you add teh fix-cm package. fontspec is a good idea on xetex or luatex but it's not enough just to load the package you need \selectmainfont etc

@DavidCarlisle well, isn't \defaultfontfeatures from fontspec?

@DavidCarlisle fontspec automatically switches to Latin Modern

@DavidCarlisle I finally understand why Will has two Unicode encodings there :-)

@StefanKottwitz Yeah :-) Successfully logged in :-) Yay

8:45 AM

@DavidCarlisle I was thinking a bit more about the inputenc business. I see that the work is in a sense already done (github.com/wspr/xetex-inputenc/blob/master/xetex-inputenc.dtx for XeTeX, luainputenc for LuaTeX), but there are still 'wrinkles'.

@DavidCarlisle If you look for example at Will's code, there are at least two things to worry about. First, he's not covered the need to do more than change the encoding (the chars don't necessarily show up), and second as any written files are UTF-8 with XeTeX there's still some variation from pdfTeX.

9:01 AM

@JosephWright Why does my head say that $ <math> $ is robust? Is it?

@Johannes_B If you load fixltx2e

@JosephWright Ah. Is $ <math> $ robust?

@Johannes_B Yes

@JosephWright Thank you :-)

@Johannes_B With the upcoming kernel update, $ ... $ will be too

9:05 AM

@JosephWright Was/is that announced on a mailing list?

@Johannes_B Not yet: details still being worked on (ask @DavidCarlisle for more on this)

@JosephWright I guess there will be news on LaTeX-L?

@Johannes_B Yes

@Johannes_B Plans are as follows:

@Johannes_B Integrate fixltx2e into the kernel with a mechanism to 'back out'; Integrate etex package extension of register allocation; detect and correctly set up for XeTeX/LuaTeX engines

@Johannes_B Most of the work is done (@DavidCarlisle in the main), we are still finalising the interface detail for the mechanisms

@JosephWright The backing out thing was discussed at the last UK-Tug, right? I watched the video.

@JosephWright yes but I pushed it further here code.google.com/p/dpc-inputenc-tests

@Johannes_B yes

9:12 AM

@JosephWright btw: i downloaded your video on coffins from UK-Tug 2012 but the file is corrupted. Once didn't play at all, once the visual information was not recognized. Might be a mess up with my system. Haven't looked into this further.

@JosephWright yes I wasn't really planning to use that method (xetex's native encoding support) other than to switch to "byte" (latin1-ish) encoding at the xetex level then use standard inputenc active character mapping to LICR (similarly use a lua callback to pass bytes rather than using lua to actually do the decoding)

@DavidCarlisle I assumed something like this

@DavidCarlisle I just think if people are using a Unicode engine then some change has to be allowed for

@JosephWright yes it would make it a less scary switch though if most documents just worked and then you had to change for special cases or to use the extended features. That isn't really true now.

@JosephWright and the answer is?

@DavidCarlisle It's really one encoding (not surprising): Will's using two versions to allow for the different font loading syntax used by XeTeX and LuaTeX. It could have all been covered in one UC encoding (ConTeXt use UC = Unicode) with an engine test inside the .fd files.

@DavidCarlisle I wanted to check this as it vaguely worried me with the Unicode engine stuff: I couldn't see where two encodings came from

@DavidCarlisle Hmm, I see that but it would seem very odd for people to have \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} with engines where one of the key points is that they are Unicode!

Good maen

9:25 AM

@ChristianHupfer 'lo.

@PauloCereda: Privet ;-)

9:37 AM

@JosephWright well they wouldn't have to if using EU encoded fonts of course but if you document inputenc as handling encoding for classic tex structures then saying you need to declare utf8 input if you are using an OT1 encoded font doesn't seem so strange (given the general weirdness that surrounds encodings generally)

@JosephWright Hmm so could we/Will switch to that? Sounds like a more documentable plan in the longer term, isolating engine differences further in the internals

@DavidCarlisle A quick check of my ls-R file reveals only a very small set of .fd files for the EU encodings (more EU1 than EU2), so I'd imagine so

@DavidCarlisle As I said, I note ConTeXt use UC and that would in my mind be a better long-term plan

@DavidCarlisle EU encoding files are in tex/latex/euenc (Will's stuff), tex/latex/chextras and tex/xelatex/philokalia

@JosephWright sounds like a plan to me. Presumably we could invent some engine neutral syntax for fd files that hid the switch in a definition so you didn't need an actual test in each file?

@DavidCarlisle It's the 'file name' that varies, e.g.

\DeclareFontShape{EU1}{lmvtt}{b}{n}
     {<-> "[lmmonoproplt10-bold]:mapping=tex-text"}{}

\DeclareFontShape{EU2}{lmvtt}{b}{n}
     {<-> file:lmmonoproplt10-bold:script=latn;+trep;+tlig;}{}

@JosephWright yes but couldn't we have \eufontfile{lmmonoproplt10-bold}{mapping=tex-text} which expands to the right thing in each case, possibly with more keywords as required?

9:52 AM

@DavidCarlisle I guess so: you know how \DeclareFontShape works better than I do!

@DavidCarlisle We should ask Will about this

@JosephWright It's \expandafter\def\csname like everything else:-)

@JosephWright summon your @@ and wake him up:-)

@WillRobertson Would something like

\def\ucfontfile#1#2#3{%
  \ifxetex
    "[#1]:#2"%
  \else
    file:#1:#3%
  \fi
}
\DeclareFontShape{UC}{lmvtt}{b}{n}
  {<-> \ucfontfile{lmmonoproplt10-bold}{mapping=tex-text}{script=latn;+trep;+tlig;}}
  {}

make sense for allowing the Unicode engines to share .fd files?

@DavidCarlisle That what you were thinking?

@JosephWright Oh that's an easier version i was thinking of expandably making mapping=tex-text map to script=latn;+trep;+tlig; (or whatever else was needed. 2 arguments for human control per font seems better and a lot easier:-)

@DavidCarlisle Actually, looking at it probably

\def\ucfontfile#1{%
  \ifxetex
    "[#1]:mapping=tex-text"%
  \else
    file:#1:script=latn;+trep;+tlig;
  \fi
}
\DeclareFontShape{UC}{lmvtt}{b}{n}
  {<-> \ucfontfile{lmmonoproplt10-bold}}{}

works

@JosephWright if you don't want the option of not having tex ligatures

9:59 AM

@DavidCarlisle Well I'm just going on what the .fd files seem to do

@JosephWright yes, in anycase can have that for the simple case and if someone needs a more involved variant can easily define a helper macro in that file, just as the ec files define specific helper macros to map font sizes to the font name conventions of ecr1000 etc

@DavidCarlisle Looking at the other .fd files (not Will's ones) it's actually the 'other bits' that vary

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@ChristianHupfer golatex.de/viewtopic,p,67822.html#67822

@Johannes_B: What will I find there?

@ChristianHupfer Have a look at it ;-) Not sure, but maybe this could be useful for the Q/A-tcolorbox answer you just gave.

10:06 AM

@Johannes_B: Ah, I see ... a little bit more elaborate compared to my 'solution'... however, I did not intend to provide the whole bunch of configurability. In addition, I agree with you that the OP here should use exam or exsheets (or in future my outstanding package /irony off (when it will be finished and published, say, in 2020....)

@ChristianHupfer In a comment to the question he said, that this is just an example and he wants to do something different.

@ChristianHupfer The post i linked to was from today, my mind related that. I never worked with tcb so far.

@JosephWright now let's see if you can remember how to close that PR in gnats:-)

A: How can I input normal quotes in LyX?

2

Without dealing with external programs, LaTeX code or shortcuts of Preferences menu: Method 1: From menu Menu Insert > Special character > Symbol > Category Basic Latin > " > Apply Method 2: Copy from math mode Ctrl+M (math mode) ⇧ Shift+2 (type " in math mode, i.e.: $"$) ⇧ Shift + <- ...

@Johannes_B use emacs

Wow, that looks amazingly simple </irony>

10:16 AM

@DavidCarlisle Or vim.

@Johannes_B: It's that simple ... :-P

@PauloCereda: Beehave ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Beehive? :) Where? :P

@PauloCereda in that case could apply s/normal quotes/anything/

@DavidCarlisle So easy. :)

@PauloCereda: Naugthy duck-a-bee :-P

10:18 AM

@ChristianHupfer <3

@PauloCereda is there any other editor where the default initial mode is that every character you type is ignored?

@DavidCarlisle Edit mode is for editing. And normal mode is for... being normal? :P

@PauloCereda and the normal thing to do in an editor is?

@DavidCarlisle lalalalala can't hear you lalalalalala

@PauloCereda subliminal message use emacs subliminal message use emacs subliminal message use emacs subliminal message use emacs subliminal message use emacs subliminal message use emacs

2

10:24 AM

@DavidCarlisle I wub you. <3

@Johannes_B: Your TeX.SX avatar/profile 'photo' is in fact a QR code, saying 'Emacs is better than vim' :-P

For no reason, I think I should install emacs. What happened?

[paulo@cambridge ~] $ rpm -q emacs
emacs-24.4-3.fc21.x86_64

Oh no, I have it installed!

$ vim
bash: vim: command not found

@Johannes_B Great!

@DavidCarlisle Of course, you use vim through ssh so no traces of usage in your machine. :)

Hey the emacs mafia is starring every anti-vim message. Boo.

2

10:36 AM

@PauloCereda actually it's easier than that:

$ vi --version
VIM - Vi IMproved 7.4 (2013 Aug 10, compiled Nov 16 2014 21:31:42)
Included patches: 1-516
Compiled by <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Small version without GUI.  Features included (+) or not (-):

@DavidCarlisle Ah indeed, same here:

[paulo@cambridge ~] $ which vi
alias vi='vim'
	/usr/bin/vim

@PauloCereda that seems somehow a more logical choice, cygwin only has /usr/bin/vi and vim is an unknown command error but vi is in fact vim. Of course it's only of academic interest as everyone uses emacs

@DavidCarlisle :)

@PauloCereda this is what I get, too :) just I'm not in Cambridge ;)

@yo' You are in toheshiba? :)

10:45 AM

@PauloCereda yeah, it's in Neverland ;)

@yo' ooh! :)

btw, know Neverhood?

Nope.

@PauloCereda WHAT?!

@yo' Neverhood. I don't know. What it is?

10:47 AM

@PauloCereda an adventure game. I mean: the adventure game. This is its trailer:

►

@yo' ooooooh the clay one!

@PauloCereda yep. I had to play it 2 or 3 times through, it's just sooooo perfect

I had to upvote @David's answer :(

@yo' which one? preamble commands?

@DavidCarlisle yoyo

@yo' yoyoyoyoyoyo

10:58 AM

@PauloCereda we should make a song with only this syllable.

11:10 AM

It queeked and beeped and then »Windows XP is shutting down« @thingsYouDontWantYourBankingTerminalToDo

2

@PauloCereda: type vim
vim is aliased to `emacs'

@PauloCereda: 'tis no mafia, it's the old fight of good (=emacs) vs. evim ;-)

Guys, crazy question: is there a way to add a footnote without a footnote number?

@PauloCereda: You mean without ^1 appearing in the running text, just text in the footer?

@ChristianHupfer Pretty much it. :)

@PauloCereda {\let\thefootnote\relax\footnotetext{Hello, Paulo!}}

11:22 AM

@PauloCereda: Stupid proposition: Relax the footnote number

@yo' : Quicker :-(((((

@ChristianHupfer yeah ... :-/ I'm not sure if you can do the \footnotetext, maybe you have to do simply \footnote

Thanks guys!

@PauloCereda it really works?

@yo' It does. :)

@PauloCereda I'm shocked :D

11:24 AM

@yo': Why shouldn't it work?

@ChristianHupfer I dunno, there's always something

@yo' I did not expect the Footnote inquistion to query if thefootnote is relaxed :-P

@ChristianHupfer however, footnote is an insert, who know what can get messed up

@yo': Yes. I am sure there are packages for this kind of usage of footnotes, but I have no example at the moment

@ChristianHupfer well, if it's a one-of-its-kind in the document, the hack doesn't hurt.

12:16 PM

Ich habe mein Hemd beschmutzt.

I'm practicing my German. :)

@egreg @DavidCarlisle I just got a gold badge which you two will never get ;)

@HarishKumar I've got one such too today, yay! :D

@yo' Really? Congrats. @egreg and @DavidCarlisle can't beat us in this! Hurrah :)

egreg

12:38 PM

@HarishKumar I can live without it. ;-)

Note the nice power of two. :P

@egreg hehe, it is true, you have so many yellow ones :)

egreg

@HarishKumar And I just need 18 upvoted answers in tikz-pgf to get another one.

1:03 PM

@PauloCereda Spaghetti sauce? :-)

@Johannes_B Probably. :)

@PauloCereda: Spaghetti sauce? Where? Where?

@ChristianHupfer On @paulos shirt, apparently :-)

@HarishKumar: I should start to answer tikz-questions .... it's hard to get a badge with counters or tableofcontents questions :-(

@Johannes_B: Damn... I hoped there is a free TSG membership (Tomato Sauce Group) ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Wanna join LLG?

1:15 PM

@Johannes_B: If any of the two L stands for Liver the answer is a clear Nooooooooooooooooo

@ChristianHupfer Pity, the Liver Lover Group is so small. We need members. :-p

@Johannes_B Lovely Lasagne Group? :D

@Johannes_B: "We" ... do you have a multiple personality? :-P

@yo': That would be ok ...

@yo' That sounds yummy. NomNom. @ChristianHupfer We can both join that one i guess :-)

@ChristianHupfer Pst, not so loud or my other I will hear you ;-)

@Johannes_B: Gollum :-P

1:18 PM

@Johannes_B ... and this bug will be fixed by Johannes and B and B and Johannes, well, gentlemen, the four of you should manage pretty quickly!

►

@yo': Better not climbing the two Kilimandshoros

liverfoundation.org/abouttheliver/25ways

@Johannes_B: I guess you subscribed for the Newsletter of the liver foundation guys ;-) It's on being good to his own liver, not on eating liver ... mark the difference :-P

Nine out of ten voices in my head tell my im normal.
The last one whistles the `tetris` music.

@Johannes_B: "Ich aß seine Leber, dazu einen Chianti" .... Hannibal Lecter :-P

1:27 PM

@ChristianHupfer I was really excited, i thought 25 recipes to prepare liver. And then the hard truth :-(

@Johannes_B: Lol :D :D

@ChristianHupfer Thats more like it wikihow.com/Cook-Liver-and-Onions

2:13 PM

@egreg Only 18? tikz world is under invasion! :D

@ChristianHupfer Ask @egreg and @DavidCarlisle! They will get upvotes and badges in any tag :D

3:38 PM

@JosephWright and @DavidCarlisle I had the impression that LaTeX's kernel was frozen. Joseph's comment (the one this comment is linked to) suggests that either my impression was wrong or that the LaTeX team decided to "unfreeze" it?

@StefanKottwitz Formerly there was a link from Golatex to labviewforum.de. They list golatex as a partner, is this still valid? If not, can you inform them? Thanks

@Johannes_B goLaTeX is not in the partner list of the labview forum (or not any more), possibly Johannes had notified, I never had contact. For me it just looks like an link.

@Johannes_B I will speak with Johannes

3:53 PM

@StefanKottwitz thanks. :-) You do not see the golatex logo in the left column? Oh, sorry. They link to GoMatlab.

@Johannes_B Yes, it's goMatlab

@GonzaloMedina It's a bit more complex than that

@GonzaloMedina Major changes in terms of functionality are not going to happen, but at the same time there has to be some recognition of things that happen anyway

@Johannes_B well as gomatlab and related link to us, I guess I should put back our links to them at the bottom

@StefanKottwitz I was just thinking about that :-)

@GonzaloMedina For example, the XeTeX/LuaTeX business already changes 'in the wild' as the format builders hack latex.ltx to add stuff. We are there just bringing it 'in house'.

@GonzaloMedina On fixltx2e the worry is that the fixes don't tend to get used even if they should, and the mechanism that was introduced isn't really working as intended.

3:59 PM

@JosephWright So you'll introduce some useful modifications that should've been there from the start, but are not "essential".

@JosephWright Wouldn't this be dangerous if the XeTeX/LuaTeX builders then decide to introduce essential changes?

@GonzaloMedina In a sense the changes they've made are essential: they relate to for example setting up lccodes correctly for UTF-8 hyphenation patterns

@GonzaloMedina Do you want the full detail?

@GonzaloMedina Something like that

@GonzaloMedina The tricky part is a mechanism to reverse this if required: @DavidCarlisle is still refining that part

@GonzaloMedina BTW, did you see my blog post on this?

4:16 PM

\def\muST@bE@emPTy{\message{Numquam videbor}}

@Johannes_B: Hic rhodus hic salta. Errare humanum est. Cogito ergo sum ;-)

@ChristianHupfer labbook.dtx Why labbook? I saw a template on the site i won't mention that did not suck completely. And it uses KOMA-script :-)

@GonzaloMedina "should've been there from the start" isn't quite how I'd describe the changes (almost all of which are in the existing fixltx2e.sty) many of the things we couldn't do at the time because we were out of csnames and main memory, but now it's really hard to justify having $x$ be fragile because we could not afford to internally define it with \protect 20 years ago

@DavidCarlisle That is the reason for not being robust, not enough memory? Wow, i thought somebody just forgot that.

4:41 PM

@JosephWright No, I didn't. Can you please give me a link?

@GonzaloMedina texdev.net/2014/12/28/fixing-latex2e

@JosephWright That would be interesting for me, yes.

@JosephWright Thanks

@GonzaloMedina OK, I'll make some notes later on

@JosephWright Ah, but if this is going to take much of your time, please don't...

@GonzaloMedina Not too long, but longer than a quick chat post

4:56 PM

@JosephWright Can you ping me as well. I am also interested.

@DavidCarlisle Excuses, excuses ;) (Of course, I am just kidding; you know I value enormously all the work and effort put by the LaTeX Team).

@Johannes_B OK

I'll try to put something down on this side of things in my blog

@JosephWright Great! Thank you very much.

@StefanKottwitz I just thought of writing a short entry about the neuer Glanz of GoLaTeX for the TeXwelt-blog. Interested?

luneart

5:13 PM

hello!
I had a hard time find out how to modify a bibtex style bst file to get chronological sorting of my bibliography with natbib, and digging the web about it was a hardship because of the numerous questions about *in-text* chronological orders. I found out a small number of modifications, how should I go about making it available for future users? ask and answer my own question...?

@luneart If you feel it's not covered already, then yes

@Johannes_B Yes, that's great!

luneart

@JosephWright ok, thank you for the advice!

@Johannes_B with latex2e and amsmath on emtex you had about 50 command definitions left (for any \newcommand or \label or packages you might load) so if we had made $ and $ robust that would have used up 4% of the entire available macro space It was thought too expensive given $ is available.

@DavidCarlisle I really wasn't aware that memory was so low. This is astonishing for me. :-)

5:18 PM

@DavidCarlisle \protected\def\(: no extra names consumed ;-)

@JosephWright it was designed to run on tex2

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I know (there was a smiley there: no e-TeX in 1994)

@JosephWright I can't even remember, did emtex have etex?

@DavidCarlisle Doubt it

@DavidCarlisle PCTeX still doesn't 'out of the box' I think

> Version 1.1 of e-TEX was released in November 1996, Version 2.0 in February 1998

@Johannes_B that's the size of the csname table but main mem was also low, we spent ages going through the source changing foo{\bar} to \foo\bar wherever possible to save 2 bytes each time.

5:44 PM

@StefanKottwitz How did i miss texdoc.org?

@Johannes_B: vt.tumblr.com/tumblr_mv1jwe9cac1rypl6f.mp4

@paulo Do you know the sign for banana?

@Johannes_B Nope. :)

@PauloCereda youtube.com/watch?v=_vRTNW-LTIw

@Johannes_B ooh das banana!

barbara beeton

6:00 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- i'm working on the bugs/request list for amsmath. do you think it's "safe" now to request that any command that isn't already robust be robustified? i.e., do you think there are few enough users still working with "small" systems whose documents would be broken by running out of memory if this were done? (the upgrade isn't actually likely to occur any time soon, or at least any time i can predict, so if you'd rather specify a time frame, that's okay too.)

6:52 PM

@Johannes_B I already shut that server down, but mainly because that Enterprise Wiki test license had ended

@Johannes_B Open Source projects can get a free license of that wiki software, which is great (rich intuitive editing with great linking and structuring)

@StefanKottwitz Yup, i know.

@Johannes_B I asked the LaTeX project team if they would be interested, did not seem so

I implemented a part of the UK TeX FAQ in a new shape as a showcase

@StefanKottwitz Why is there an ubuntu QA on it?

@Johannes_B well I used its IP address for another test server, playing with that Ubuntu site, optionally planned with my friends from the Ubuntu Berlin local group

@StefanKottwitz Is there any software update mentionable in golatex, OFFtopic: can we get some sort of maxLineWidth? Right now, text just uses up the whole width of the screen.

Wow @Stefan. You have many projects :-)

6:58 PM

@Johannes_B I kept the software version and the look, to keep the change small for the user's experience

@StefanKottwitz Ok, just repaired the file upload. :-)

@Johannes_B First I focused on get it running on another server and newer OS and system software and PHP in the background,

@Johannes_B and having first improvements

@StefanKottwitz ctan links are most usefull for me. Thanks for them :-)

@Johannes_B file upload fix, yes, internal fixes to match newer PHP and such, allowing HTML type for IMG tags so we can embed attached images, as they have an obfuscated link without image type file extension

Sounds good

7:02 PM

@Johannes_B implementing the Overleaf/writeLaTeX with HTML form, some PHP and Javascript, a bit different to latex-community.org

@Johannes_B then added the bbcode support and buttons for CTAN and texdoc links and MWE and inline code, wasn't so straightforward as with the newer forum software on latex-community.org, I had to program string replacements and template thingies

@Johannes_B and of course took out all the advertisement widgets

@StefanKottwitz That is really nice.

to come very fast to an improved user feeling

@StefanKottwitz Why the decision to keep the old software?

@Johannes_B just to be fast with improvements, a software update requires more time, adjusting and testing

@Johannes_B I can do it in the next weeks or months

@StefanKottwitz As you may notice, i have no experience with running a forum.

7:07 PM

@Johannes_B such a major upgrade breaks existing features and the already modified nonstandard database, so it needs time for fixing and adjusting, but yes, I'd like to get to the newest version

@StefanKottwitz I couldn't even see what the underlying software is. There is often a reference at the bottom like »runninb vbulletin« but i didn't see it.

@Johannes_B it's phpBB

@Johannes_B so the plan is to share modifications and features with latex-community.org which builds on the same platform

@Johannes_B many ideas such as interlinking, shared searching and tagging, linked user profiles, combined feeds, site widgets showing info from partner sites such as unanswered fresh questions

@StefanKottwitz Meaning a user searching for tag xyz could see results in german and english or select a language?

@Johannes_B possibly migration paths between sites, forum -> Q&A -> Wiki and such depending on shape and quality

@Johannes_B like this, yes, but also summarizing results from golatex.de and texwelt.de

@StefanKottwitz Ooh, stats. Like when are people visiting?

7:16 PM

@Johannes_B I mean combined tagging and search results, not stats in the first place,

@StefanKottwitz Schade, seems to be interesting. :-)

@Johannes_B but user profiles may get stats from other sites, if interested, so carrying information and links from a colorful bouquet of sites such as goLaTeX, TeXwelt, LaTeX-Community, TeXample (their author profiles), wiki, TeXdoc, ...

@StefanKottwitz That is quite a list you got there :-)

@Johannes_B just ideas for now, it will take time to actually program, I need holidays :-)

@StefanKottwitz Holidays? I guess we all do.

7:23 PM

@Johannes_B I'm currently in Seattle btw. this week, though not for holidays, but there's time to work on golatex in the hotel WiFi at evenings

9 hours time difference, so I can work at the live site without disturbing users when I do it at German night time

@StefanKottwitz But you being in Seattle is a coincidence, right? Or did you plan for weeks to make the move when overseas?

@Johannes_B It's just a coincidence

I'm offline for some minutes now

@StefanKottwitz I'll take home. Have a nice time. btw: Mail comming in a few minutes :-)

7:44 PM

Guys, what's a good source on \newwrite's so I can understand the "time" of writing content on them?

@PauloCereda the texbook:-) but they write at shipout unless they are \immediate

@DavidCarlisle Oh. :) So \immediate ensures the content is written at that time?

@barbarabeeton its safe enough. in the next 2e release as I guess you saw we are planning to include the fixltx2e changes so \( \makebox \savebox `\framebox \parbox and \rule (I think) robust but still many commands that couldn't conceivably be used in a moving argument will be fragile.

@PauloCereda \immediate\write10{hello} does not make a node it just writes hello to stream 10 at that point conversely \write10{hello} writes a whatsit node (like \special) into the current list (so it can affect spacing) and if the list is finally shipped out the write happens at that time. If the box isn't shipped out the write never happens,.

8:00 PM

@DavidCarlisle Ouch. I definitely need to read the TeXbook. :)

@David: Thank you. :)

8:10 PM

@PauloCereda latex protected@write takes a middle way first \thepage is made a no-op then the argument is \edef expanded so everything except the page number expands, then the result is put in a non immediate write to be written out at shipout when the page is known. If you don't do the edef step first, {\def\foo{hello}\write10{\foo}} is an error as \foo is not defined at the point the write happens.

8:31 PM

@DavidCarlisle Are you there?

@Anthony no?

Oh. :(

I'll ask a question anyway.

question?

Can I ask you a question?

you just did

8:38 PM

ohoho

Why aren't we allowed to put \documentclass in a .sty file, and just use \usepackage for the whole set up in our file?

that's how site works, it's always Ok to ask, if people are busy it's just Ok not to answer

@Anthony because that would be weird

I see.

Why is it weird?

@Anthony put your whole set up in the class

Oh.

I don't know how to make a class.

(I don't know very much about TeX)

Can I make a class that's just, say, the article class with some extra macros?

@Anthony because a file structured that way would have to come first and you could only have one of them, so it has exactly the features that distinguish a class from a package

@Anthony yes

\LoadClass{article}\def\zzz{zzzz} is a perfectly valid class save it as zzz.cls and use \documentclass{zzz}

8:42 PM

Thank you!

@Anthony texdoc clsguide

What is that?

@Anthony It tells you the above (and a bit more:-)

but where do I type it?

@Anthony at the commandline or many tex editors will have texdoc as a menu option, it is a utility that comes with texlive and miktex and shows you the documentation for each part of the system

8:44 PM

Thank you!

Oh I see.

I typed that in and didn't get anything :/

@Anthony what tex do you have?

3.1415926

texdoc clsguide actually just shows clsguie.pdf which shouls be on your system but is tex.ac.uk/ctan/macros/latex/doc/clsguide.pdf

@Anthony no I meant texlive, miktex, debian version of texlive, etc

I see, I'm still curious why nothing popped up then...

oh miktex

2.9

You did say the command line, right?

@Anthony Ive never used miktex but my understanding was that it had texdoc under that name and under its own name .... ah mthelp see tex.stackexchange.com/questions/54474/…

@Anthony yes assuming the folder with the tex executables is on your path, what happens if you type tex ?

8:50 PM

if I type tex it opens up the tex interpreter

says please input filename

@Anthony x will shut it up:-)

Oh I got it to work

Thanks @DavidCarlisle

Henri Menke

@StefanKottwitz Would it be possible to implement a close vote system on TeXwelt? I'd like to clean up the "Unanswered" section by closing all questions I consider off-topic or duplicate but I don't want to be too prevalent, because of course my opinion might be wrong. Thus it would be nice if another "trusted" user (e.g. rep > 500) could review my vote and either approve or decline it.

10:34 PM

@DavidCarlisle Got it. :)

@Johannes, @Christian: any hints on typesetting recipes with LaTeX?

Torbjørn T.

@PauloCereda ctan.org/topic/cooking

10:59 PM

@TorbjørnT. ooh cool! Thank you!