TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2012-08-03 (page 1 of 2)

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12:02 AM

@DavidCarlisle Nevermind, there is an option to turn it on. Sorry for the inconvenience.

10 hours later…

10:10 AM

Yay, @JosephWright won the luatex badge! :)

10:24 AM

Yay², Friday! :D

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I LOL'd. :)

The alt tag for this image is also priceless: "[audience looks around] 'What just happened?' 'There must be some context we're missing.'"

Brent.Longborough

@PatrickGundlach Independently of the typographical quality of the font, an interesting and welcome initiative.

Patrick Gundlach

@Brent.Longborough And Adobe is really using an open source license and publishing it on sourceforge.net. I didn't think that they knew the term "Open Source"

Brent.Longborough

@PatrickGundlach It's a real surprise; one doesn't normally associate "Adobe" with "excellence"...

@PatrickGundlach Their last attempt with opensource that I can remember was the Flex builder, I guess. :)

@PatrickGundlach Indeed, I was surprised to see this: sourceforge.net/adobe/wiki/Home

Brent.Longborough

10:38 AM

@PauloCereda Given their reputation with exploits, I'm wondering whether using these fonts will get my printer pŵned (LOL, tongue-in-cheek)

@Brent.Longborough LOL it would be great to have my printer hacked. :)

Patrick Gundlach

@Brent.Longborough During printing they probably open some gui dialog: "This font needs a security update. Before you continue printing, please download the latest and greatest version"

@PatrickGundlach LOL

ecofont.com

Brent.Longborough

@PatrickGundlach LZL

"It was an itsy, bitsy, teenie, weenie, white polka-dot font..."

Brent.Longborough

10:43 AM

@PauloCereda Professor, there's something in this test tube ... Aaaargh!

@Brent.Longborough LMAO

Brent.Longborough

10:56 AM

@PatrickGundlach Well, just for the record, not a complaint: no small caps, no Greek or Cyrillic, no serious math (I guess that's OK for a sans font), but it does have old-style and table numerals, and superscript letters

11:08 AM

@Brent.Longborough Well math fonts are an area in themselves, so I think we have to let them off :-) (There are something like six serious math fonts available, I think)

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Yes, of course. When I look at something like Brill or Latin Modern Math, it's easy to see just how much blood, toil, tears and sweat go into this.

Patrick Gundlach

@Brent.Longborough thanks for writing this!

@Brent.Longborough I think a blog post would not be a bad idea: what do you think?

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Dunno? "Are you talking to me"

@Brent.Longborough Yup

Brent.Longborough

11:13 AM

@JosephWright But I'm a complete dilettante...

@Brent.Longborough Well you know more about this than I do ;-)

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright I somehow doubt that very much. s/know/talk/, then maybe that's a bit closer the truth

@Brent.Longborough Perhaps I'll write something: it's been a while since I posted a blog entry for TeX-sx

@Brent.Longborough A little bit is more than zero ;-)

TL, I'd say (see comments):

0

Q: Unable to compile beamer using LyX

I am a first time LaTeX user and decided to use LyX to get myself up to speed. After downloading necessary stuff, MiKTeX 2.9 and LyX 2.0.4 on a Windows7 system, I started testing document classes. The document class article works fine when compiled into a PDF, however I am having compilation iss...

Brent.Longborough

11:21 AM

An example in use; I hope I'm not committing a violent act.

@MarcoDaniel ... Said Dedekind...

@JosephWright: Sorry to be a pest, I've just flagged my own post for moderator intervention

@Brent.Longborough Done

@Brent.Longborough Best to avoid flagging if possible: these show up for all StackExchange mods

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Oh, OK, I just wanted to avoid meta-chat

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3

Here's the cover of Elementare Typographie, using Adobe Source Sans Pro

(Sorry, a reconstruction, that is)

It's gone very quiet; I hope that wasn't some kind of sacrilege

11:50 AM

@Brent.Longborough We are secretly discussing on your punishment for this blasphemy.

@Brent.Longborough Using xcoffins?

@Brent.Longborough By the way do you agree with this if I may ask bluntly? amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/0198610416/…

Brent.Longborough

12:23 PM

@JosephWright "The only ways it's possible for a mere mortal"

@percusse How about having all my reading matter converted to Comic Sans?

@Brent.Longborough Cool. Is it a simple edit of the demo source from xcoffins? Would make a good example for the blog.

@Brent.Longborough I'm more inclined to have your computer ask you Restart Now -- Restart Later every 2 minutes.

Brent.Longborough

@percusse Oh! If true, that's very sad. I'm still reading it, so it would be early for me to comment more than that

@JosephWright Yes, it is, but with the rule-aligned text "sans sidebearings" thanks to XeLaTeX. And it doesn't fit properly on the page. In short, a mess. Would you like me to send it to you?

@Brent.Longborough Please, that would be great

I'll probably write something later today: depends on the weather here (I'm supposed to be going out but it's raining)

Brent.Longborough

12:41 PM

@JosephWright Oh!? Are you in Wales?

@Brent.Longborough No, near Northampton

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Ah, almost in the Fens

@JosephWright: I have a new project in mind. :) Can I send you an email about it? :)

@PauloCereda Fire away

@Brent.Longborough Not far off: we are supposed to be near Cambridge cycling

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright OK, sent to your Communist ISP

12:49 PM

@Brent.Longborough LOL

@JosephWright Sent. :)

So @Brent is our new blog author, yay! :)

@Brent.Longborough :-)

@Brent.Longborough Our house used to be a pub

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern (J.S. Bach). Waas that the name of the pub?

@Brent.Longborough Yup, 'The Morning Star' or 'The Drum and Monkey'

Brent.Longborough

@PauloCereda A Haskell project, I sincerely hope :P

@Brent.Longborough JHaskell. :)

Brent.Longborough

12:54 PM

@JosephWright Ah, pub names. We have a lovely little (walkers') pub near here called the Goose and Cuckoo. They make you turn off your mobile phone and throw you out if it rings. Fantastic!

@PauloCereda RAT! (Rindo a toa)

@Brent.Longborough Down the road from us, also delicensed, is 'Inkerman'

@Brent.Longborough youtube.com/… :P

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Here in Wales there's a lot of stuff from the heigh-ho of the Crimean War. There's a town nearby called Sebastopol, and a lot of pubs with names like "The Rifleman"

@PauloCereda OMG does it have a crase? Que vergonha.

@Brent.Longborough I guess it does have crase. :)

Brent.Longborough

Well, the dog is saying he wants to take me for a walk, so I gotta go for a while. I'll be back later, and knackered.

Au revoir

1:01 PM

@Brent.Longborough à bientôt :)

Crase! :P

1:39 PM

Chat room for general blog issues: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/115/stack-exchange-community-blogs

I'm told that new contributors can sign in via tex.blogoverflow.com/wp-admin, and one of the admins can then alter the account type to be able to author material

@JosephWright Cool! :)

I'm gonna write something there. :)

@MarcoDaniel fif you see/understand tex.stackexchange.com/questions/65565/… ?

@DavidCarlisle I can't understand such a usage. I think it's much easier to use TikZ in a direct way.

@JosephWright: I'm already abusing the chatroom. :P

And it's already working!

@PauloCereda What image types do you use for the log? Trying to upload a .png fails for me :-(

1:54 PM

@JosephWright I have to use .jpg. For some reason, they blocked .png images. :(

@PauloCereda Ah right. Disaster

@JosephWright I'm using JPG with 100% quality, so it doesn't look so bad.

@PauloCereda Ideally, we'd upload to the image server. One to ask GraceNote!

@JosephWright Indeed, it would make more sense. :)

Stack Exchange TeX Blog: A new open font: Adobe Source Sans Pro

Joseph Wright on August 03, 2012

Using TeX is about more than just the TeX document itself: fonts are a big part of producing high quality documents. One of the issues facing all fans of typography is the availability of fonts. Many professionally-produced offerings are expensive, and have licenses which are restrictive. Of course, there are some notable exceptions, with a number of excellent ‘free’ (as in speech) fonts available. Probably most notable to TeX users in the latter category are those from the Latin Modern/TeX Gyre Project. …

4

2:03 PM

@JosephWright Yay!

@JosephWright Nice

@MarcoDaniel tikz? what's that?

@MarcoDaniel No problem

@DavidCarlisle :-) I forgot ;-) the environment picture can do the same ;-)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda Now I'm curious ...

2:33 PM

@PauloCereda Me too

@StefanKottwitz, @MarcoDaniel: I'll unveil it soon. :)

@PauloCereda During the Olympic Games or later?

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I think captcha is going a bit over the top lately. Soon the robots will be better at reading this stuff than humans...

2:48 PM

Not particularly fond of dentist`s nor anesthesia.

@StephanLehmke Indeed. :)

@MarcoDaniel Probably later. :)

New Mac arrived! :) But I still need to wait for the new furniture for my office.

@PauloCereda 30 minutes ago my brother bought a new MacBook ;-) Funny

@PauloCereda Maybe for TeX.SX we should change the system to display a formula and require to input the TeX code for typesetting it ;-)

@StephanLehmke it would be more in keeping with the site to display an image and require the tikz code to produce it. That should keep the spammers at bay...

3:12 PM

@MarcoDaniel Yay! MacBook air?

@StephanLehmke It's a good idea. :)

@PauloCereda No. I recommended MacBook Pro.

I don't like 13".

@MarcoDaniel I'm not a fan of 13".

@MarcoDaniel Mine's 13", and I have no issues

@JosephWright Mine's 13" too, but I'd prefer 15" or higher. :)

@PauloCereda Depends on how you use it, I guess

3:17 PM

@JosephWright I know. At home I am working with 27" imac and at work I have 2 monitors with 19" ;-) You see I can't handle smaller sizes ;-)

Under normal circumstances, I spend 3/4 hours a week on the train

Brent.Longborough

What Ho! I'm back.

@MarcoDaniel I don't get the huge monitors business. 27" is the size of our TV

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright: Nice blog post - you're too kind.

@JosephWright: I sent you a second (OCD-driven) email before I saw you'd already posted. Please feel absolutely free to ignore it.

@JosephWright Indeed. Since I don't need mobility, I'd prefer bigger screens. :)

3:21 PM

@JosephWright This is too small for my wife and me. But for travelling 13" is really enough.

@PauloCereda Me too ;-) 52" tv

@MarcoDaniel Oh, mine is 40". :)

42, I guess.

@PauloCereda ???

@MarcoDaniel We've never had anything like that size screen. For many years we had a 14" in the living room (which is about 27' long)

@MarcoDaniel 42". :)

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright A 27-in screen at 16:9 gives you 336mm height, so you can fit an A4 portrait page full size, alongside your TeX source

3:24 PM

@Brent.Longborough :-)

Brent.Longborough

Of course, "your value system may have different objectives" :)

@Brent.Longborough The way my desk is set up, I'd be too close to the screen to see this :-)

@PauloCereda I found the correct one I bought this tv

That's why Germans are awesome: "Energieeffizienzklasse" :)

@JosephWright :-) Today I saw a report about Olympic games in London. How do you notice the atmosphere?

@PauloCereda Super ;-)

3:29 PM

@MarcoDaniel Not really at all, but then I'm not in London

@Brent.Longborough Post updated

@JosephWright: I was thinking of writing an app prototype and generate the package options according to the options chosen in the wizard, and set also other settings with \AtEveryBibitem. The manual/documentation would be the source. :)

At the evening I will go to the cinema and watching "Batman". I hope the movie is great.

@PauloCereda Hmm, possibly

@MarcoDaniel Catwoman. <3 :)

@PauloCereda I understand ;-)

3:31 PM

@MarcoDaniel Can I spoil the end? :)

@PauloCereda I don't go to the cinema concerning the story. :-)

But I think batman will win

@MarcoDaniel You are my hero! :)

Batman saves the day, but the plane explodes. Everybody thinks Batman/Bruce is dead, but the real thing is that he sets the autopilot before, so he's alive with the catwoman girl in Italy, probably eating ice cream.

spoiler alert

I wish I could go out of the cinema right after Star Wars saying near to people in line, "Who would ever thought that Darth Vader is in fact Luke Skywalker's father?!"

@PauloCereda LOL

@PauloCereda: Do you know the movie Avangers? I love this movie

3:50 PM

@MarcoDaniel Ah yes, I like it! :)

Brent.Longborough

4:01 PM

@JosephWright: Not sure what happened to the blog post, but it looks like the dog ate your homework; specifically, the square brackets and braces of the \JoinCoffin commands have been morphed into Frankenlinks à la "The Fly"

@JosephWright BTW, Thank you. (Sorry -- the thanks should have come first, before the moaning)

4:18 PM

AppleCare done too. :) Thanks to @JosephWright and @AlanMunn for the hint. :)

@PauloCereda Don't you trust the apple hardware ;-)

@MarcoDaniel Of course I do! :) The problem is the Brazilian way of things. :)

@Brent.Longborough Something is misunderstanding the (x,y) syntax

Ah, got it: fixed

@Brent.Longborough It seems the MarkDown plugin stlll interprets [...](...) when <pre> is active

4:45 PM

Hey )

Brent.Longborough

@PauloCereda The Brazilian way of things is not the problem; it's the rest of the world that hasn't discovered it yet, poor dears.

@JosephWright Nice one! Thanx

5:17 PM

Do you want: stackoverflow.com/questions/11800282/… or is it too low quality to be worth migrating?

(i.e. should I vote to close or to migrate?)

@Flexo Migrate it: we'll certainly answer :-)

5:32 PM

@Brent.Longborough LOL

Stung by a bee. Great. :P

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright A couple of problems with the source. I've dropped you an itchygram.

Something to do with {m} parameter specifiers and \XeTeXcharglyph not wanting {

Or I'm stoopid...

@Brent.Longborough Yes, I saw the e-mail. I will check my code: perhaps I've made a slight error [this happens :-)]

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Thanks. :) I get a lot of that myself.

Brent.Longborough

6:07 PM

@JosephWright Oh, Just seen what's wrong - it's a missing backtick in each of the definitions - probably Markdown eating one's homework again.

@Brent.Longborough Hmm, that is a bit of a pain. I will investigate further

Brent.Longborough

And the \NewDocumentCommand Version works fine!

@JosephWright The correct lines in the definitions should be of the form:

` \the\XeTeXcharglyph«backtick»#1 %`

or maybe \the\XeTeXcharglyph`#1 %

@Brent.Longborough Try now

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Yes, that's great; but your original structure, with the backticks added, also works fine, and is a good advert for xparse

@Brent.Longborough OK, I'll look at this

Brent.Longborough

6:13 PM

@JosephWright Sorry, didn't want to make a lot of work for u

@Brent.Longborough Now Joseph is the victm. :P

Brent.Longborough

@PauloCereda The shahid of LaTeX³

6:32 PM

43

Q: Who are the package maintainers here?

Quick links: LaTeX Packages ❧ LaTeX Classes ❧ ConTeXt Modules ❧ Generic Packages ❧ Support Scripts ❧ Biblatex Styles A fair few users here have written or maintain packages on CTAN, some even in the TeX Live distribution, or at the least have some official i...

discussion community big-list

It's been suggested that as @@tex.stackexchange.com/users/16967/… has registered, his packages should get added. Any volunteers?

My first use of \vbox{\unhbox\foo} :-) I didn't even know this was possible... Thanks to @FrankMittelbach for pointing this out!

\unhbox ?

@Brent.Longborough Fixed again

Frank Mittelbach

@N3buchadnezzar yes, why not ... it will start a paragraph inside the vbox

@N3buchadnezzar Assuming \foo is an hbox, what's wrong?

Brent.Longborough

6:39 PM

@JosephWright Thank you, sir; you are a gentleman and a scholar.

Heh I am just very unexperienced with pure tex commands, and I had not seen the \unhbox command before..

Thinks: @FrankMittelbach's packages are also not on that list

@N3buchadnezzar texdoc texbytopic

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright which list?

@N3buchadnezzar You're not alone. As I said, I also wasn't aware this works.

Frank Mittelbach

@StephanLehmke where did I point this out?

6:40 PM

@FrankMittelbach See above (meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/1181/…)

@FrankMittelbach It was somewhere inside the discussion about how to re-typeset stuff with LuaTeX. It just never occurred to me you could collect stuff in an \hbox and line-break it later...

Frank Mittelbach

@StephanLehmke it has some limitations you need to be aware of. see my talk in Boston. For example, language changes never made it into an hbox unless they are explicit (via \setlanguage)

@FrankMittelbach Is your talk publicly advertised still?

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright still on my dropbox for now, but if you guys think it is not too bad then we could move it to the web site

@FrankMittelbach Uh there are implicit language changes? puzzled look

Brent.Longborough

6:45 PM

@JosephWright I'm really, really sorry, Joseph, but it's still not right. I should have noticed, about three generations ago, that Markdown turned all the "\\"s into single "\"s. What can I say?

Link to @FrankMittelbach's talk (for those who missed it): dl.dropbox.com/u/55981144/…

Frank Mittelbach

@StephanLehmke read the few cryptic additions in the TeX book on how language is implemented there is \language and \setlanguage the first changes the current language the second puts an explicit language node into the list

@Brent.Longborough Change of plan: drop <pre> and use four space indent. Hopefully right now, and easier for me to edit.

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright @StephanLehmke my earlier remark may have been a red hering .. I somewhat hurried over the last part discussing how to do reflow of paragraphs. may not have touched this point (especially as I decided not to use collection in hboxes directly but only indirectly)

@Brent.Longborough Register for the blog via tex.blogoverflow.com/wp-admin and I can set you as an editor

Brent.Longborough

6:48 PM

@JosephWright I'm really sorry I didn't catch all this for you as one lump

@Brent.Longborough No probelm

@FrankMittelbach Thanks for the explanation. I'll keep that in mind.

@FrankMittelbach Listening to your talk right now :-)

Frank Mittelbach

@StephanLehmke I warn you I drag on for nearly an hour :-) need to get rid of the hmmm's

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Done! Thanks for the fix

7:21 PM

@Brent.Longborough, @MarcoDaniel I've altered your blog status to 'Editor'

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Thank you.

7:57 PM

@N3buchadnezzar never used \leavevmode ?

@DavidCarlisle Did you see @BrunoLeFloch's improved \leavemode. Not a bad plan

Well, not Bruno's really, but he mentioned it

@JosephWright no well it may have passed by. There were times when I wasn't paying full attention (if you mean it was in a l3 email somewhere)

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright must have missed that ... what did he suggest?

or probably not yet read

@JosephWright good to see @FrankMittelbach and I don't maintain anything:-)

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle what?

8:04 PM

@FrankMittelbach in reply to Joseph's line above referring to a "package maintainers CW question) we are not listed:-)

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle well I hope you are still maintaining something ... even if all you do for maintenance is that this is a feature not a bug :-)

@FrankMittelbach by the way do you use cons on windows?

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle not that is different :-) the implementation just doesn't work as it uses unix conventions in a hardwired way, so implementing cons on windows doesn't get yu anywhere (which is why I think we should switch back to make or even .bat (@Joseph's bat files work well and are easily adapable)

@FrankMittelbach I use cygwin for everything so usually unix-y things are OK but cons just didn't seem to work and I gave up. Hmm joseph's bat files? are they in svn I'll look

@DavidCarlisle Yes, they are. I use Windows at work, and a mixture at home, so one of my early tasks on joining the team was getting things like make checklvt to work for me.

@DavidCarlisle It seemed like a good idea, long-term. TeX is cross platform, so our development environment should be if possible.

@FrankMittelbach, @DavidCarlisle Bruno's message is called 'Change/introduce \mode_leave_vertical:'

The suggestion is \protected\def\leavevmode{\ifvmode\expandafter\indent\fi} (well, in expl3, but close enough)

8:11 PM

OK I'll see if I can build a tools distrib with the update for tools/4173.

@DavidCarlisle Like Frank, I failed to get cons to work unless running on Unix. I also had a 'fun' time working out what it was in the first place :-)

@DavidCarlisle Ah yes, you are not in the CW question either

@JosephWright what does it do that's better than leavevmode (and does it work in table cells?)

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright @David it might be a tiny bit faster but I also have my doubts that it will always behave the same in all cases ... that would need verification

@FrankMittelbach unless \protected\edef does more than I think, the \ifvmode wouldn't be right at the start of a p-column would it?

@JosephWright I suppose I could add myself...

@DavidCarlisle What's special there?

8:20 PM

@JosephWright it's a scary place

@DavidCarlisle :-)

Hello @BrunoLeFloch

@JosephWright tex is expanding ahead looking for \omit so you are not yet in vmode but will be if there is no \omit

@DavidCarlisle At the start of an \halign or \valign cell, TeX does not expand protected commands. (Since eTeX v.2.)

@JosephWright Hello Joseph. One of you guys summoned me :).

@BrunoLeFloch was just going to check that:-) (All this new stuff hasn't sunk in the same way tex82 behaviour has)

@DavidCarlisle The suggestion depends on e-TeX for this reason, as I understand it

8:21 PM

So \protected\def\leavevmode{\ifvmode\indent\fi} is identical to the \quitvmode pdfTeX primitive.

However, it is different from \unhbox\emptybox.

@JosephWright well yes it needs e-tex for \protected anyway

See tex.stackexchange.com/q/13769/2707

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but what I meant is that it's only 'safe' to even try this using \protected, so would not work with TeX82/TeX90

Yay @Bruno is here! :)

@PauloCereda Hi Paulo! I just hop by from time to time. Should be working. But TeX is quite addictive.

8:24 PM

@BrunoLeFloch Hi Bruno! :) We know that feeling. :)

@PauloCereda Problem is, my supervisor is in Canada and I'm in France, so the pressure is little.

@BrunoLeFloch Ah. :)

@BrunoLeFloch I flicked through that long thread but dont see a place yest where the behaviour differs from leavevmode?

@BrunoLeFloch How long are you in France for?

@DavidCarlisle I did some tests: seems to be the same for the ones I tried

@JosephWright I also proposed a rather more complicated \mode_ensure_vertical:. Any thoughts about it?

8:27 PM

@BrunoLeFloch Have not read the detail yet: mean to in a bit.

@BrunoLeFloch We'd already discussed \mode_leave_vertical: before, in the context of the galley, but it seemed it was best to 'wait and see'

@DavidCarlisle Oops, it should be \ifvmode\expandafter\indent\fi not \ifvmode\indent\fi. In that case, the \everypar tokens are inserted after \indent (and after \fi too if we put \expandafter there). On the other hand, \unhbox\voidbox works differently: \unhbox forces hmode, hence the \everypar tokens are inserted, and what will follow is \unhbox\voidbox.

So \everypar{\show}\leavevmode A will show A with the \indent version, but \unhbox with the \unhbox\voidbox version.

@JosephWright The details are messy, and probably non-optimal. I tried to make it identical to TeX's own behaviour, but I may have screwed up a bit in the math mode case.

@BrunoLeFloch I'm wary after our discussion of the 'align safe scan stop' business, where all of the cleverness did not actually deliver, and we dropped it

Some of my recent attempts with \immediate\write18{texlua ...} got me thinking again about providing tests for the platform, for the output mode, etc.

@BrunoLeFloch I think the platform test is useful, but have not done it yet as it needs quite a bit of support work that we've not done yet

@JosephWright Well, \scan_align_safe_stop: was a very clever piece of code, it just happened that with eTeX we could replace it with something much simpler. The functionality remained unchanged.

@JosephWright Couldn't we just rewrite ifplatform.sty to suit our needs?

8:32 PM

@BrunoLeFloch Will read the email now

@BrunoLeFloch I was going to, then I read it :-)

@JosephWright Well, ifplatform doesn't seem too long.

@BrunoLeFloch No, it's not. Read more carefully :-)

@BrunoLeFloch It needs catchfile, etc., and it's there that we do not have an interface at the moment

@JosephWright I see. \RequirePackage{pdftexcmds,catchfile,ifluatex}

pdftexcmds is already required.

@BrunoLeFloch That's the one

@BrunoLeFloch It's more deciding on interfaces that is the issue than actually writing the code. Other things seemed more urgent last time I looked at this.

@JosephWright Ok.

@JosephWright Actually, I have to admit that I'm not clear what to do next.

I mean, I'm doing lots of small things, but no big project.

8:41 PM

@BrunoLeFloch Your suggestions on I/O mapping fit in here

@BrunoLeFloch xor

@BrunoLeFloch Smaller scale, there is the need to revise l3doc more

@JosephWright What do you mean "here"? "Things that are not important"?

@BrunoLeFloch Or l3dt: I think the idea is a good one, but want better performance and need to do an implementation based on datatool

@BrunoLeFloch :-)

@BrunoLeFloch The 'coming up with interfaces for catchfile-like abilities'

@JosephWright Not sure about basing ourselves on datatool. I'll try to look.

@Brent.Longborough Secret message received :-)

Brent.Longborough

Did your decoding ring work?

8:44 PM

@JosephWright James Bond theme playing

Brent.Longborough

@PauloCereda Do you use GPG?

@BrunoLeFloch Well, Morten suggested the current datatool implementation based on the then-current l3prop (I'm not sure how much he actually wrote). Nicola got a big performance gain going from v1 to v2.

@Brent.Longborough Yup

@Brent.Longborough I used in the past. :)

Brent.Longborough

@PauloCereda Did you stop because there weren't enough correspondents who understood it?

Or because you stopped using a desktop mail client?

@Brent.Longborough I get quite a few signed messages from Germany

8:47 PM

@JosephWright Ah. Thinking of catchfile, I had started to code a \tl_if_rescan_safe:nTF {<token list>}, to check if a token list is safe for rescanning (i.e., no invalid character, nor unbalanced braces). This could be useful: catch files with category other (with \readline), then test for rescannability, and only afterwards rescan for catcodes.

@BrunoLeFloch In the first instance, I'd like to have 'catch tokenized' and 'catch as a string'

@JosephWright One aspect is that the current datatool is using toks.

@Brent.Longborough I had some problems with configuring it with all my operating systems (Windows, Linux, Mac), I tried hard to make them behave the same. At the end of the day, I decided to stop with it until I could figure out some way to have them working efficiently. :) Even with webmail, I have my Thunderbird set. :)

@JosephWright Yes. The problem \CatchFileDef has is it is inherently unsafe.

@BrunoLeFloch Yes, but that is because l3prop used to. I pushed for the toks => tl change.

@PauloCereda EnigMail works for me

8:49 PM

Files with unbalanced braces can make Heiko's code (or any other using \scantokens directly) break horribly.

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright That's what I do - sign all my messages, but not encrypt. My Mum always asks me "did you know the Internet scribbled all over your email with computer language?"

@JosephWright I think that toks => tl change makes the code clearer. It comes at a performance cost (x2 roughly).

@Brent.Longborough I sign if people sign when sending to me, for that reason (signing is a small subset). I encrypt only if asked: I'm always surprised that more people don't want this for sensitive data

@BrunoLeFloch When I tested 'real world' performance in siunitx it did not seem like much at all

Brent.Longborough

@PauloCereda Yes. I have my TBird setup synced between my desktop and laptop -- getting gpg to work on either was complicated, I remember.

@BrunoLeFloch We did know it was a bit slower, but the old 'explain when toks were needed' business seemed like something we could live without

Brent.Longborough

8:52 PM

@JosephWright Yes; I guess it's just not easy enough for most folks

@Brent.Longborough I meant specifically people I know via TeX, where the expertise might exist

@JosephWright Yes. I'll look at this \tl_if_rescan_safe conditional tonight. I'll see about l3dt a bit later. For some reason I feel like working on file-related things these days.

@BrunoLeFloch Fine with me if you are looking for small jobs

Brent.Longborough

@JosephWright Yes, but it's a different kind of skill, I think

@BrunoLeFloch Where are we with l3regex and l3str?

8:59 PM

@JosephWright Lacking good names, mostly. The code is fine (perhaps a bit clunky in places, and definitely fully abusing TeX registers, though), but mostly bug-free, I think.

@BrunoLeFloch We should sort that: the string stuff is generally useful, and the regex stuff is very clever

@JosephWright Thanks. I've contacted the author of cleveref and he seems keen on using l3regex rather than sed for his poorman's option which creates a copy of the original LaTeX file with all cleveref commands "expanded".

@JosephWright Maybe an easy way out is to point to oberdiek bundle at one shot.

Having stable function names would be very useful.

user image

9:03 PM

@percusse Yes, I agree

@JosephWright: ^^

@PauloCereda Nice

I won't be getting one of those when I get a work machine next month

My first i<3Mac. :)

@JosephWright You'll get a better one. :)

@PauloCereda Oh no I won't

@Brent.Longborough I might come back to GPG soon.

9:05 PM

@PauloCereda Cool. You'll get signed messages from @Brent.Longborough and from me, at least

@PauloCereda Congrats ! (The author keeps the right to complain about Apple products elsewhere (coffe corners, space stations, bus stops, etc., this doesn't mean that he is not happy for Paulo)

@percusse <3

@JosephWright Yay! :D

My mom is amazed by the size of the keyboard. :)

@PauloCereda Ah, didn't realize that that was a photo you took. This thing is massive! :D

@BrunoLeFloch It is. :) 12kg of apples. I need to wait for my new office furniture, though. :)

Did anyone noticed the discussion happening in this room?

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/4222/2012/7/24

9:11 PM

@PauloCereda You say 12kg of apples? That's 66 apples.

@BrunoLeFloch LOL epic!

Apparently, TeX.SE is the corner of the Stackexchange for people to discuss philosophy or teenagers to make out :)

@percusse Oh my!!!!

@percusse Did I miss something? oO

@BrunoLeFloch Too late! Windows are all foggy now :P

9:17 PM

@percusse =(

Well, really, I don't care all that much :)

The philosophy debate is quite interesting.

@BrunoLeFloch Indeed...

9:31 PM

@JosephWright Do you think we should start a maintainers item in the package authors question?

@percusse I guess it's more about maintainers than authors anyway

@JosephWright Facepalm! must read the title...

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