In this case, does the answer justify the question or should the question be closed?

It feels awkard coming here and not seeing @goldPseudo online :)

@yasar I'm trying out that whole "Get off the Internet every now again" thing that everyone's talking about.

it doesn't live up to the hype.

Haha cool

I was worried about you for a while there :)

i'm still around. just got like fifty pots boiling on the back burner these days.

(and it doesn't help that i spend most of my free time playing Beyond Earth or Minecraft these days instead of, y'know, actually doing anything about them...)

You deserve your leisure ;)

@Mr.Bultitude It's completely irrelevant. If it at least deigned to explain the difference of opinion as to where to put ones eyes, it might be able to slide, but as it is it's explaining an exactly unrelated ruling.

the whole thing just comes off as apologetic rather than any attempt to answer the question.

i should probably delete it myself, just don't have time right now to compose a proper comment first.

took a bit of a bite out of the review queue.

a lot of close-vote queue still to go through, but it's nice to see that many of them had multiple reviews (4/5 vtc in some cases) done on them already.

dinar or not?

hrm?

rasul said we must use dinar

paper money doesnt even worth

dinar is gold

and its worth

and hadith said so right?

not sure i've ever seen him say that we must use. i know that it's what he did use, but that's just what the currency was at the time.

fulus was also in use during the prophet's time, and i don't know any evidences that he ever forbade that.

yeah

but people here always thinking that using paper money is root of poverty

that's a rather simplistic view of things. the economy built around paper money is decidedly complex.

yes

they thinking that if one sheep worth 3 dinar , it will be same, because dinar is gold

and the further i study it, the deeper the complexity runs.

now its different

yes

in the days of the prophet, the major currencies had intrinsic value: one ounce of gold was always worth, at the very least, one ounce of gold. that is no longer the case.

yes

but the value that gold had always depended on the market values.

huh?

a sheep might be worth three dinar one day, but a month later during a famine it'd go up to 10.

why?

hmmm thats right :\

but at least all will be the same with dinar (gold)

in mah country 10000 rupiah worth 1$

and thats not worthy,

paper currency has basically just decoupled intrinsic value from market value. but the actual value still fluctuates with market forces.

hmm yeah, so in conclusion it doesnt matter if its gold money or paper

i don't know any hadith that imply that intrinsic value and market value need to stay coupled. it's just an entirely new way of thinking of money.

dakwatuna.com/2012/05/17/20558/konsep-uang-dalam-islam

sorry its indonesian

dinarfirst.org/kumpulan-hadist-tentang-dinar-dan-dirham-islam

Abu Bakar ibnu Abi Maryam meriwayatkan bahwa beliau mendengar Rasulullah Shallallâhu ‘Alaihi Wasallam bersabda, ”Masanya akan tiba pada umat manusia, ketika tidak ada apapun yang berguna selain dinar dan dirham.”

there will be the age that everything will be not wirth except dinar and dirham

*worth

yeah but not strict

i don't know how literally to take that report.

"except dinar and dirham" just seems to be another way to say "except money". because those were the currencies in the time.

just like referring to the "almighty dollar" today, it doesn't just mean the USDollar; it refers to money in general.

hm yeah

i'm all for going back to a gold standard currency, but again it's all sorts of simplistic to believe that it's a simple case of switching over and then all financial problems are solved.

nowadays, i barely even use paper money. most everything's done digitally via my bank card.

hmm yeah

quicker, easier (and lots safer) than walking around with a bag of gold clinking on my waist :p

but its also easier for government to give a debt to country

easier for everyone, really. poor money management is a problem with the people/governments, not the exact nature of the currency being used.

would you stifle the economy just because some people abuse it?

no because the debt

even US now has a huge debt

you can go in debt with gold or you can go in debt with paper, but debt is still debt.

that's an entirely separate issue.

yeah thats true, but at least , they wont print the money as they like,

that's just a result of spending more than you have.

again, that's a complex issue. government's can't just "print the money as they like" without throwing the entire economy out of balance.

if 1 gold worth 1 dollar

america and indonesia only need 100 golds

if one gold was worth one dollar, i'd be buying up all the gold i could find :p

yeah :p

thats just if

@goldPseudo "one gold"? an atom? ;)

the exchange between USD and Rp is literally just numbers. the only difference between 100 and 10000000 is how they choose to break up their currencies.

instead of USD $100, you could just as easily call it 10000 cents.

and thats not even worth

what matters is what you can get for that value. if you can get $100 worth of goods for 1000000 Rp, what does it matter how many zeroes there are?

yes and thats not worth, 1$ here worth for 2 noodles, 2 milk and 2 cigars, and what about america, 1$ only worth for one burritos

that's market forces.

i can buy milk and vegetables much cheaper here than i can if i was living up north. stuff doesn't cost the same globally.

yes and thats why we need gold, every country have a gold, gold never perish, thats why its worth for currency, every country can mine it, even africa,

i could buy coffee beans much cheaper if i was living somewhere where it actually grows, rather than needing to get it trucked in across at least two countries.

every country can print paper money too.

but every print has different worth

every country has different worth.

1$ here are different than 1$ there

i'm pretty sure that's been the case for like ever, even when the USD was still on the gold standard.

the US is an economic powerhouse, not because they use paper money, but because they're just really good at using it.

and also US has a big debt, dont forget it

debt plays a major role in modern economic theories. like i said, it's a complex system.

yeah but its not good in islam law

eveyone who borrow anything should return it asap

the US was still holding a significant public debt even when they were still on the gold standard.

sure, holding such a public debt may be problematic in Islamic law, but it has pretty much nothing to do with the use of paper money.

you're conflating two very different issues here.

the gold standard wasn't abolished until '71, but the US has held public debt for centuries.

i still only have the barest of understandings on how public debt works with modern economics, but like i said it's a way more complex issue than "debt bad gold good".

gah. got too distracted by interesting conversation, forgot that i'm still supposed to be at work.

:p