Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya - 2014-06-17

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12:07 PM

stack exchange sure has advanced in the past two years! i can barley manage to get around

or maybe im just a tad bit rusty

Bleeding Fingers

12:41 PM

the biggest advancement is the splitting into meta.so for a real meta for Stack Overflow and a separate Meta Stack Exchange for SE

rest is just the same

Blog - Stack Exchange: Announcing The Launch Of Meta Stack Exchange

Tim Post on April 17, 2014

We’re very pleased to announce that as of today, we’re (finally) splitting the site formerly known as Meta Stack Overflow into two sites:

Meta Stack Overflow is a brand-spanking new site for discussions specific to the Stack Overflow (programming) community:

Meta Stack Exchange will cover feature requests, bugs, and any discussion topics that affect the entire network:

Meta has always been one of the most important things that make our network… work. Almost all of our most important features, improvements, and community rules were partly or entirely based on our users telling us how we could help …

and yes, we have a new top bar

Blog - Stack Exchange: A New Top Bar for Stack Exchange

David Fullerton on December 04, 2013

The top bar of a Stack Exchange site has always been a bit of an odd place. It somehow combines user info, navigation, search, and a one-size-fits-all popup that includes hot network questions, a list of 100+ Stack Exchange sites, personal inbox messages, and other system notifications (lovingly referred to as The StackExchange™ MultiCollider SuperDropdown™).

It was, in retrospect, overdue for a face-lift which is why we’re excited to roll out a new top bar this week.

So, in the redesigned top bar, we wanted to make sure that it would look the same across all sites, and make it obvious that you’ …

2 hours later…

3:01 PM

Hi everybody

Mujahid مجاهد

@Daniel hello :)

@Mujahidمجاهد How are you?

Mujahid مجاهد

@Daniel Very well Alhamdulillah, What about you?

@Mujahidمجاهد I'm doing ok :)

Mujahid مجاهد

good :)

3:05 PM

@Mujahidمجاهد I had to move out of my apartment last week to a different apartment because a new tenant was coming in

but now I'm moving again in a month

so lot's of moving which is kind of annoying

looking forward to being done with that haha

Mujahid مجاهد

I can understand that, for the past 3 years and more, I have moved almost every year, when I went to Jordan I moved about every six months

@Mujahidمجاهد yeah. that's tough

i'm moving to chicago soon, and I'm looking forward to finally being anchored somewhere

I'm planning on staying there for the foreseeable future

Mujahid مجاهد

@Daniel Yes, but The Prophet gave us great advice, that is be like the stranger coming but going to move on. Although that is referring to us living and then dying, it can be applied to staying in areas

@Daniel Insha'Allah

@Mujahidمجاهد yes that makes sense

as you know, people like me have followed that advice for a long time :)

Mujahid مجاهد

:)

3:14 PM

@Mujahidمجاهد Although most of the time they wished that they didn't have to

Mujahid مجاهد

@Daniel that's the sweetness of life, doing things you don't want to or wish to ;P

@Mujahidمجاهد If you can see that as sweet, then you must be a very optimistic person!

Mujahid مجاهد

@Daniel I am a human being, I do not find them sweet, but what is sweet is what comes after

Allah has told us that every hardship is followed by ease

@Mujahidمجاهد That's a comforting thought

0

Q: Why was this question reopened and then edited without asking the OP?

Question: Eating onions can harm Angels? The mod was correct when he closed it for being a dup. although it is about Onion, the answer is clearly in the question about garlic. Ok, let's say closing as a dup was not a wise decision. Why was it edited by another user without even consulting with...

discussion editing

3:27 PM

I don't understand ^^ that meta question

3:48 PM

Does anybody know if Jews are allowed in the Dubai? I'd like to visit some time

Bleeding Fingers

@Daniel I highly doubt a person of any religion isn't allowed to visit

@BleedingFingers Cool :)

Bleeding Fingers

plus i don't think they ask an individual their religion either

@BleedingFingers A lot of Arab countries figure it out if they see a stamp from Israel in the passport

Bleeding Fingers

citizens of us, european countries, gulf states etc get visa on arrival

@Daniel i don't think they have an issue with that

3:53 PM

@BleedingFingers Great!

I've heard Dubai is really cool

Bleeding Fingers

although i don't think citizens of uae is permitted to travel to israel

permitted by their govt

@BleedingFingers the UAE government or the Israeli government?

Bleeding Fingers

uae

0

Q: What is the name of the snake which cause blindess?

According to hadith Muhammad (PBUH) asked us to kill the snake with two white lines on it's back. Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet said, "Kill the snake with two white lines on its back, for it blinds the on-looker and causes abortion." Sahih Buckari Book 54, Hadith 527 What is the nam...

Is this on topic?

@BleedingFingers Interesting. In that case, maybe I'll look into it more before I fly there

or maybe get a new passport without israeli stamps

@yasar I think so

Bleeding Fingers

3:59 PM

"Is this snake still existing or gone extinct ?" this isn't

Ok, I am removing that part then

@BleedingFingers I think that is legitimate for the question. Once the snake is identified, it's a pretty natural follow-up

And any good answer would probably include that information anyway

1 hour later…

5:05 PM

1 messages deleted

→ 1 message moved to Trash

5:16 PM

@Daniel

Hey :-)

@Suhaib Hi

how are you today ?

@Suhaib I'm doing well. How are you?

I'm fine. Just got back the store

The point I wanted to make is that when you edit someone else's post, you aren't supposed to change the intended meaning

5:17 PM

@Daniel, ok. Nice!

It doesn't mean you can't edit the question to improve it without consulting the OP as long as you don't change the intention of the question

exactly

So in the question that you posted about, the edits don't change the meaning of the question

So that's why they are good edits

What about removing a tag that helps in understanding the intent of OP ?

Doesn't that change the meaning too ?

@Suhaib Well in this case the tag didn't really match what the question was asking

so in general, changing the tags could change the meaning, but I think it's clear that the OP is an inexperienced user who didn't really understand how the tags work in the first place

5:29 PM

@Daniel, "or can this be a cultural belief" <- Doesn't this give an idea about what OP is looking for ?

Which makes it clear that source-identification is completely relevant...

@Suhaib Yes, looking back, you're right

that tag is relevant

my point, though, is that you don't have to make a meta post about it

you can just edit it back in

and if he disagrees with you, you can discuss it

@Daniel, thanks for the suggestion. The reason I didn't. there was a rollback war with the same user so asking the community before editing is the wisest approach...

For more info: meta.islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1148/…

@Suhaib that would make it more of an islamic-basis than a source-identification question, according to my understanding of the tags.

at least that's how i use those tags. really not sure how true they're being kept any more.

5:46 PM

@goldPseudo what's the difference between those two?

hrm.. SI really needs a better tag wiki. i thought there was one written up for that already.

Islamic Basis is basically for questions along the lines of "Everyone keeps telling me that such-and-such is part of Islam, but nobody can show me evidence. Is this actually an Islamic thing, or just a cultural practice?"

Source Identification would be for seeking particular sources that are known (or strongly expected) to exist.

like "Someone mentioned a hadith to me; does anyone know what book it's in and how strong it is?"

@goldPseudo Got it. Thanks

1 hour later…

7:06 PM

Are political questions like these that are so controversial allowed on this website?

2

Q: Is the Islamic state of Iraq and Levant a valid caliphate?

The ISIL claims to be an Islamic caliphate which is fighting to bring the Muslim lands into one Islamic nation and essentially has declared war on its rivals like USA, Saudi Monarchy, Iran, Syria , NATO and many more. Also the leader has claimed to be from the progeny of Fatima (A.S) which they c...

0

Q: Are questions asking us to pass judgement on any particular group ever constructive?

I have seen a number of questions show up on the site, usually in the form of "Is such-and-such common practice valid according to Islamic law?" or "Is so-and-so group wrong for practicing such-and-such?" Rather than having anything to do with studying Islam the religion, such questions are typi...

discussion scope sectarianism

@infatuated as far as i'm concerned, it should be burned with fire.

I also think so! Especially that it is making all sorts of provocative judgements against many countries including mine!

To say that Islamic Republic of Iran is "enemies of muslims"; and a terrorist takfiri group such ISIS that is sponsored by US is "fighting for Islam and against US" is not just off topic! It's outragous!

if'n you don't like it, downvote, vote to close, flag, whatever.

we need users to act on these things, otherwise nothing's gonna happen.

Bleeding Fingers

@infatuated provide your answer if you think you are clear on it

7:09 PM

I've done that!

I can do so @BleedingFingers, but I am not sure that would be constructive at all. It would turn into a lengthy political debate!

Bleeding Fingers

@infatuated doesn't matter if it's your country or anybody else's

But I know my country and my leaders well!

and also am pretty familiar with the history of KSA treachery against muslims.

Bleeding Fingers

@infatuated don't get into that. keep it calm.

they are a bunch of corrupt kings with jewish origin hand in glove with US and have been consistently financing and arming Salafist extermists groups across the region that have inflamed the fire secterianism that has so far victimized hunderds of thousands.

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided."

7:12 PM

there's hardly a week without suicide bombers blowing themselves up to kill shiite in anticipation of maidens in paradise!

Bleeding Fingers

@infatuated be academic in your approach. did drift away by your emotions.

So basically we should only quote/tell you what pleases you? Huh? — infatuated 43 secs ago

That's not very diplomatic

And my previous comments were also removed by the mod!

comments are for very particular purposes. arguing is not one of them.

but Daniel, the way he poses the question is beyond arrogant!

7:18 PM

@infatuated My point was that's an innappropriate comment

@infatuated So flag it

no matter how legitimate the grievances may be.

islam.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment

and as you said the question is saturated with prejudice and begs for presupposed answers.

notice the postscript he added to the question!

He has already determined his opinion. I really don't know what he is looking for then!

Bleeding Fingers

@infatuated u should be calm and academic. remember what shog9 said?

@Daniel true that

but how academic is the question in the first place?

I mean can it be handleded academically at all?

@infatuated that's why i brought up the meta discussion.

Bleeding Fingers

7:23 PM

@Daniel agreed

whinging in comments and chat may be therapeutic, but it's wholly non-constructive.

I brought it up here intentionally

Bleeding Fingers

15 mins ago, by Bleeding Fingers

@infatuated provide your answer if you think you are clear on it

@infatuated it only helping you discuss. not helping the site flesh out policies.

i cannot stress how important it is to bring issues like this up in meta; community is formed in meta.

meta is the site.

don't get me wrong; chat can be a great place for venting. but venting doesn't improve the site.

This question is saturated with prejudice and bigotry! It should be removed altogether or heavily edited for unbiased and cordiality! – infatuated 41 secs ago

Bleeding Fingers

7:27 PM

"bigotry" not nice

that's what the question is!

This question is saturated with prejudice and bigotry! It should be removed altogether or heavily edited for unbiased and cordiality! – infatuated 12 secs ago

@Mujahidمجاهد Thank you for the edits. Much better

Bleeding Fingers

@infatuated flag it then!

@infatuated This is your only warning; accusing moderators of abusing their power is not tolerated here.

If you want to argue how moderation is supposed to work on the site, take it to meta.

Mujahid مجاهد

@Daniel i tried my best, i am sure others can put in more better edits

7:59 PM

@goldPseudo alhamdolelah, now I know what is the purpose of islamic-basis :-)

8:44 PM

Arabic speakers: When you see this (جعلت الارض مسكناً لآدم) How do you know what the verb is, it can be ja3lta, ja3altu, ja3lat, ju3elet, ju3eleti etc.

Reading without tashkeel seems like a guessing game to me :/

Especially, active and passive words

They are spelled exactly the same, but mean completely different things.

Mujahid مجاهد

@yasar is that a lone sentence, or did something come before it?

It is an example from a grammar book showing passive verbs, so I know it is passive. I was just wondering how I would know that if I didn't already know that :)

It is a lone sentence by the way :)

Mujahid مجاهد

@yasar by passive you mean Majhool مجهول ?

9:00 PM

جَعَلَ vs جُعِلَ

I am not sure what it is called

Mujahid مجاهد

ah yes

@yasar it is Fi'il Mjhool (فعل مبني على المجهول)

so in Madhi it would be جُعِلَ

@yasar جُعِلَتِ الأَرضُ مَسكَنَاً لِآدَمِ

Yes, but how could you know that without tashkeel? There is not any clue in the text that indicate whether I made the earth, she made the earth or the earth was made... I need to know the meaning before I can read it correctly. That is the confusing part

I mean, If I saw جعلت الارض مسكناً لآدم in a book, I wouldn't know how to read it

Mujahid مجاهد

that is the point, it is Majhool (مجهول) unknown and not known (معلوم), the doer is unknown

in the sentance جعلت الارض مسكناً لآدم

Earth may be the doer? Earth made a maskan for adam?

Mujahid مجاهد

جعلت is definitely فعل ماض and because there is no فاعل it is مجهول, so when we speak of مجهول it applies only to Madhi and Mudari's, if in Madhi then a dhamma at the beginning at Kasrah before the end, and if Mudari', it is Damma at the beginning and Fatha before the end

@yasar no, I don't think so

because the earth can't do anything, it is Allah

9:12 PM

So, you need to put tashkeel in order to make it the most meaningful sentence

Mujahid مجاهد

and here there is nothing pointing back to Allah

@yasar no, it is a meaningful sentance in of it'self, that is just for pronunciation

@yasar what I mean is, for a sentence to be meaningful, there has to be two words or more, here there are four, so it is a meaningful sentence (جملة مفيدة)

9:55 PM

Fn fct: Englsh ppl r srprsngly gd at rdng nd prnouncng thngs prprly wthout mst vwls too, bsed only on cntxt.

it's hrdly an Arbc-exclsv thng.

I wndr hw lng it tks fr a nw lrnr to lrn the lngge so gd tht thy wnt nd any vwls

I gss it wld tke yrs.

sadly, chatspeak and textspeak have proven that slaughtering the English language can be done within a single generation :p

Turkish ppl are good at reading w/o vwls too.

who needs vowels when you have dots, amirite?

yöu are möst definitely rıght

absölıtely

Mujahid مجاهد

10:03 PM

@goldPseudo Subhanallah, five minutes and I still can't figure totally out what you guys are saying

We were talking aböüt höw englısh peöple can read withöüt vöwels töö.

@Mujahidمجاهد hah. now you know what all us English speakers need to deal with when learning Arabic :)

Mujahid مجاهد

interesting, this is an eye opener

:)

أحتاج إلى النوم -> I need to sleep

Mujahid مجاهد

@goldPseudo can english people also speak without vowels?

@yasar نوما سعيدا! ك

:)

10:09 PM

يلة طيبة!

Mujahid مجاهد

مساء الخير

:)

Is it how you say good night?

Mujahid مجاهد

@yasar depends on how you want to say it, but yes

أحلام سعيدة

the amount of mangling the human brain can still understand as "words" is surprising sometimes.

Mujahid مجاهد

have nice dreams

10:11 PM

thanks, see you guys later!

user image

Mujahid مجاهد

@goldPseudo haha, I am quarter smart because I understood the title, now to become fully smart I just have to read the body :P

my own handwriting is atrocious; i don't even read based on the letters themselves, rather the pattern of "high" vs "low" strokes.

Mujahid مجاهد

@goldPseudo you write in cursive?

yep.

Mujahid مجاهد

10:16 PM

the first time I saw cursive writing I thought it was german or hebrew I took some lessons on writing it, I still can't really write or understand it

user image

Mujahid مجاهد

my own english handwriting is terrible, if you put me in a class of kindergarteners, you would find that they can write their names far better and eloquently then I can write my own (in english that is)

10:36 PM

Well I'm sorry, it was not impolite, I'd be pleased if you delete the previous message :\

Mujahid مجاهد

@goldPseudo I can't understand it, what does it say? I know the first words says "this is an" but can't get past that

@TamerShlash how are you today brother?

أو اﻷفضل أن أسئلك: كيفك الليلة؟

الحمد لله رب العالمين

أنت كيف حالك؟ :)

Mujahid مجاهد

الحمد لله رب العالمين

الرحمن الرحيم ملك يوم الدين...

:)

I know I shouldn't begin a critical argument, but I though I would find it already begun

I mean argument about ISIL question: islam.stackexchange.com/q/14592/167

Should such question be closed?

Mujahid مجاهد

@TamerShlash i don't see anything wrong especially under questions like these, i see it as something the questionnaire can consider and edit based on that

10:52 PM

Agreed

I encourage it not to be closed, at least to tell people that not all Sunni muslims are ISIL-like...

Mujahid مجاهد

@TamerShlash I think they shouldn't but should be edited to be more constructive (Have you seen the question before my edit?), but there is a discussion for it on meta: meta.islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1192/…

No, I'm gonna to see the edit history now

@Mujahidمجاهد "This is an example of my own handwriting. As you can see, it is not what one could call particularly "legible". But it does the job."

Mujahid مجاهد

@goldPseudo interesting :)

11:07 PM

@TamerShlash as far as i'm concerned the question is fundamentally problematic.

it could be worked into a viable question, but out of the gate it's pretty much exactly the sort of "political" questions we don't want here.

pretty much anything with this sort of "Is this particular group right?" attitude is just not what the site is made for.

@goldPseudo you have a point there

especially when the group in question has a clear "anti-this-other-group" policy.

Mujahid مجاهد

On an off-topic note: @TamerShlash I am going to start a discussion under the Arabic Language proposal on as subject which I have been thinking about especially after looking at (شبكة الفصيح), so before posting a discussion, I would like to ask for you're and anyone else's opinion on the matter. Ok, so what I was thinking about is what (when Arabic.SE goes to beta) should we do about questions seeking to schoolwork or college work?

and if ban such questions, what should we do about the users who sign up just for that and persist?

11:33 PM

@Mujahidمجاهد I don't think we should ban such questions, most people will ask because it's a homework or a research-related work, and it's fine IMHO to answer such questions if we know the accurate answer (I doubt knowing any :3 ).

If we ban such questions, the site's lifetime will be short. Not too many people study Arabic out of "interest" but rather because they are taught the language in education.

Mujahid مجاهد

11:54 PM

@TamerShlash that isn't totally what I meant, I think questions based on homework or college work should be allowed

you see I had this in mind:

عزيزي الطالب: هذا المنتدى ليس لحل واجباتك بل لمساعدتك على معرفة الحل الصحيح وتصويب إجاباتك لأن حل الواجبات ممنوع ويعرضك أنت ومن يجيب أسئلتك إلى الإنذار والمخالفة وتجميد الحساب ولذا إن أردت الحصول على رد لسؤالك فضع حلولك واطلب تصحيحها فهذا هو المسموح به فقط.

http://www.alfaseeh.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=39

and so if we were to go for something like that, but the users persist they should be banned? like above

If there is enough users who persist it should be banned, let it be :)

Actually what's written above is quite fair, I personally don't encourage the "I wish to have" sort of questions.

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Jun '1417

Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya

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