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7:35 PM
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Q: Do all Yemenites study the trope for each weekly parsha?

DanFI have heard that in Yemenite synagogues, when a person is called for aliyah L'Torah, they read their own section. I.e., there is no "Torah reader" as there are in many other synagogues / services. This makes me speculate that each person needs to know how to read each parsha. Do people know in ...

 
i've added some edits a source to my post. Hopefully it answers your question
Do my updated edits answer your question?
 
@Aaron I thought the original answer was fine, but thanks for the additional info. Perhaps, if I can be away from my own Torah reading responsibilities in my own shul, I should attend a Yemenite minyan on Shabbat to experience this myself.
 
@DanF they are wonderful to behold. But hard to follow since the voweling is do different. Did you ever go to that website i gave you that has the Yemenite reading?
 
@Aaron please remind me of that link. I'll try to view it after Shabbat. Shabbat Shalom to you.
 
@DanF The website is moryapp.co.il and if i have answered your question, could you please accept it as the answer?
@DanF So what'd you think of the Yemenite Reading?
 
7:35 PM
@Aaron quite interesting! But, admittedly, I don't know if it's this specific guy or his reading is an accurate representation of Torah reading. I could barely tell the difference in reading of certain trope notes vs. others. Nearly all the psukim sound like they are sung almost identically. And, while I ignored the Yemenite vowel pronunciation, I noticed that on a number of words, the accent was on the wrong syllable. So, here, too, I'm uncertain if that's a general rule of how Yemenites pronounce Hebrew. IN some cases the wrong accent can change the word meaning as the tense would be wrong.
 
@DanF Yemenites (and some Sephardim) only emphasize disjunctives and mostly ignore conjunctives. So there will be no change in pitch of melody for things like munach, mercha, qadma, pashta, etc. And instead the focus will be on tropes like katon, gerish, etnachta, and sof posuk. The etnachta and sof pasuk share the same melody since they serve a similar purpose.
 
@Aaron Pashta is a disjunctive.
 
@DoubleAA Ah you're right, sorry. In my sephardic tradition we don't really have a Pashta, it's a Qadma, which is a conjuctive. So i always get confused when trying to discuss Ashkenazi symbols.
 
@Aaron I don't know what you mean. You can call the note whatever you want, but it's a disjunctive.
 
@DoubleAA many Sephardic communities dont have a pashta. They only have a qadma and terei qadmin. Which means what you call a pashta I call a qadma, and so what is to you a disjunctive is to me a conjunctive
 
7:35 PM
@Aaron Again, I don't really care what you call it, so lets stop using words which are obfuscating more than they are enlightening. Take Genesis 1:5 sefaria.org/Genesis.1.5 The mark on Vayikra is conjunctive. The mark on LaOr is disjunctive. This is not something about which Sefardim/Ashkenazim/Temanim or anyone differs. It's just a fact of the Tiberian written system which we pretty much all use. It doesn't even matter how you sing it.
 
@DoubleAA i'm claiming they are both conjunctive. i do not believe it's a fact of the system. if you can prove to me that it's a fact of the system from the book Diqduqe ha-te'amim by Moshe ben Asher then i will believe you.
 
@Aaron Here's your proof: Gen 13 8 sefaria.org/Genesis.13.8 and note the Dagesh in Beini but not Thehi. QED.
 
@DoubleAA i can't argue your proof. Grammatically it appears you are correct. So i don't know why according to the system that i learned, there is no pashta, only a qadma, and the same notes and name is used for both. This is attested to in the former chief Rabbi of Alexandria's system that he notated and i have in writing. i don't know why such a large grammatical difference wouldn't be notated. Perhaps sefardim lost such a distinction musically?
 
@Aaron I can't say anything about the music, but it wouldn't be the first time an esteemed rabbi or regular baal keriah made a grammar error. I'm stating this as obvious but probably 85% of bar mitzva boys don't learn it, unfortunately. Ask around to other Sefardi Baalei Keriah and see what you find.
@Aaron Here is a Sefardi grammarian (R Meir Mazuz's Yeshiva) discussing the difference ykr.org.il/modules/Ask/answer/3097
 
@DoubleAA Unfortunately that website is beyond my ability to translate. i would love some help
@DoubleAA i just checked the reading from bar-mitzvah.com which was signed off by Chacham Ovadiah Yosef and they do not distinguish the two symbols in Bereishit 13.8 that you brought up. Nor do other Chazzanim from pizmonim.org. i think it's likely Sephardim aren't strict about using the proper te'am to begin with, and as a consequence these distinctions have been lost, to the disadvantage of our grammatical knowledge
 
7:41 PM
The question was about the note on Anokhi in Gen 27 19
@Aaron The symbols are only differentiated by their placement on the word. Pashta at the end. Kadma on the accented letter. Many editions print the Pashta twice (once at the end and once on the accented letter) to help you see where to accent the word. It's the same shaped line.
 
@DoubleAA My wife reads in an Ashkenazi fashion (the quarter tones bother her) so i'm aware of the Pashta and its placement. But my Sephardi teachers have ignored it entirely.
@DoubleAA i've heard that some Sephardi teachers will say that what Ashkenazim call a pashta we call a qadma, and what they call a qadma we call an azla. But no one sings the azla unless it's combined with a gerish.
@DoubleAA So i'm fairly convinced the Ashkenazim are more correct in their distinction, and we have lost a grammatical idea when it comes to chanting.
 
The answer there says (rough translation): Anokhi is not marked with a kadma but a pashta. the kadma and pashta (which is also called "kadma gadol") are similar in appearance and polar opposite in function: kadma is conjunctive and pashta is disjunctive.
How do you tell the difference? [stuff about placement on the word]
to our dismay, in the last generation the jerusalemite readers have forgotten the original jerusalemite reading, and they do not distinguish between the kadma and the kadma gedolah [aka] pashta in other communities, and they therefore err and change the meaning of the verse
 
@DoubleAA And that article proves my point lol
@DoubleAA Thank you for finding this for me. i will bookmark it, as its obviously very important. Thank you for adding to my knowledge.
@DoubleAA And thank you for proving me wrong in our discussion earlier
 
@Aaron Sometimes a (ashkenzi) pashta comes before a mahpach and looks deceivingly like a (ashkenzi) kadma. eg exodus 28 33. That's where it's extra important to be careful and not do the usual kadma-mahpach-pashta-katton
@Aaron thank you for prompting me to find an excellent example to make my point. having those around is useful.
 

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