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12:44 AM
Hi. Anyone here?
 
@MikeMiller I think I was told why it was true and the references to look at, but I probably wasn't paying enough intention. I thought there was something on Kirby's list which talks about smooth embeddings of the Poincare sphere minus a point into R^4, though I couldn't find it.
 
@PVAL: Ok. I haven't talked to experts much about the problem, so I do believe it should be nontrivial to embed $\Sigma(2,3,5)$ punctured into $\Bbb R^4$.
 
Hey guys!
 
Anyway, if that doesn't work, I bet I can replace it with an appropriate doubled Brieskorn sphere whose puncture isn't known to embed.
 
Anyways I'm given two Matrices. $A^{-1}$ and $B^{-1}$ I have to compute: $(AB^T)^{-1}$ So can I just do..: $A^{-1}*(B^{-1})^T$ to get the same thing..? Not sure if it would be.
 
12:47 AM
I am doing camera calibration and mapping pixel co-ordinates to real-world ones. Say. I have obtained the rotation matrix for a plane.
 
@MikeMiller I'm pretty sure I was told they all do (all= punctured small seifert fibred homology spheres)
 
That makes me angry.
 
But my plane on interest is at 90 degrees to it passing through the point of rotation(origin). Should I just multiply the rotation as follows:
% Transform the rotation matrix by 90 at the origin of camera calibration
% along the y-axis
y_90_rot=[0 0 1;0 1 0; -1 0 0];
R=R*y_90_rot;
 
In any case, if I find the appropriate references, I guarantee I can still replace it by something of the form $M \# \bar M$
Because certainly not every punctured 3-manifold embeds in $\Bbb R^4$ right? I think that's a theorem
 
@MikeMiller Ya I don't know how to get obstructions in an easy way.
There's probably one.
 
12:52 AM
The point was just to have a concrete example of a manifold known to bound a homology ball, not known to embed in $S^4$
 
If you write down using (1 and 2-handles) a presentation of the trivial group which is not known to be trivial by Andrew-Curtis moves and has trivial H_2 the boundary should be an example.
Probably not the nicest way to get one though.
 
Yeah I know that one, wasn't very excited by it.
Was Gompf the one who suggested attacking Poincare by studying embedding problems?
 
hey @PVAL
can you maybe help in understanding this issue
1
Q: Quotient topology from Delta complex

L33terA $\Delta$-complex structure on a space X is a collection of maps $\sigma_{\alpha} : \Delta^n \rightarrow X$ with n depending on index $\alpha$ such that 1)The restriction $\sigma_{\alpha}|int(Delta)$ is injective and each point of X is in the image of exactly one such restriction. 2)Each restr...

 
Does my question make sense?
 
@MikeMiller Gompf suggested trying to do it by doing generalizations of property R. Dont know about any other way he suggested.
@L33ter Not right now.
sorry.
 
1:04 AM
@PVAL: I think I'm thinking of Freedman. See here. The last theorem quoted is much more than I thought we knew.
 
it is ok
 
If possible please refer me to correct place to as it. :)
 
@robjohn ^^^ (it's checked and perfectly done this way - also sent to ***)
 
@MikeMiller I don't know if that theorem helps much. There are quite a few plausible sounding statements close to SPC4. (the conjectures in the "Man and Machine..." paper. I don't know if Freedman is saying anything that wasn't known at that point. Another nice one is the case of the Akbulut-Kirby conjecture for the case of slice knots (this is implied by the Poincare conjecture).
 
@robjohn ^^^ (Mathematica confirms the perfect result)
 
1:13 AM
@PVAL: It seems to me to be completely unhelpful for determining if a manifold I hand you has an embedding. But nonetheless I didn't expect something that looks so nice.
@PVAL: That's not the blog post I was thinking of. I'm thinking precisely of what you mentioned before: Write down a Mazur manifold from a potential counterexample to AC, and double it; you have a canonical embedding of a 3-manifold. now prove that 3-manifold doesn't embed in $S^4$. That idea's due to somebody and for some reason I think it was Freedman.
 
Ah thats probably folklore.
 
@robjohn I have different variants prepared for other magazines but those are easier, or at least this is the way they seem to me.
@robjohn for that series I used (an awesome) trick I think I didn't use before.
 
Likely multiple people thought of that at around the same time, but not knowing at all how to obstruct 3-manifold embedding into S^4 with obstructing embedding in ZHB^4 people probably didn't write anything down.
 
Fair enough.
 
It's late, I should sleep for 4 hours.
 
1:27 AM
"Computing the two-variable polynomial for K2 took approximately 4 weeks on a
dual core AMD Opteron 285 with 32 gb of RAM. " jeez...
 
And then three days later Akbulut killed the rest of their examples...
 
@MikeMiller I think I have gotten the first examples of contractible 4-manifolds that are not Stein, and shown that the proof of what I thought was the first example must be incorrect. Though I have thought the first thing multiple times and had been wrong each time.
 
@PVAL: good luck on this one. So you know that your first first example is actually Steinable?
 
No but it has a tight contact structure with the correct homotopy type to have a contractible Stein filling.
I don't know how to obstruct this besides obstructing that.
 
Ok, so your approach couldn't work.
 
1:34 AM
Ya someone needs to make a better invariant.
Potentially there are 3-manifolds which bound contractible 4-manifolds some of which are Stein some of which aren't. No idea how to find those.
 
any pointers?
 
@PVAL Seems interesting. You should go to the topology conference in Indiana here and tell me more.
My impression is they have infinite money.
 
My candidacy is April 4th
 
Rough timing.
 
Have you gone to that conference before?
 
1:38 AM
Nope.
 
The graduate student talks are only 15 minutes. I'd advise you to skip entire time slots just to give your mind a break.
It might be run differently than when it was here. I don't know.
 
I have no problem with that. I went to every single talk at a conference in Vancouver for two weeks and that was a terrible idea.
Every single time slot I mean.
I have to go. Talk to you later.
 
See ya
 
2:26 AM
why
why do you need to give your mind a break is it hard @MikeMiller ?
 
hiii
 
 
3 hours later…
5:43 AM
hi
 
6:10 AM
@Balarka Hey. Long time no see bud.
 
Hello.
 
What are you up to these days?
 
How would you find g(n) in f(n) ∈ Θ(g(n))?
 
I just finished my school exam.
Now onto math again.
 
How did the exam go?
 
6:12 AM
Better than I hoped.
 
anyone?
 
@Balarka Ah hope the best.
@DemCodeLines We need time and not 30 seconds to think about your question.
We are not an instant-answer factory.
 
@JulianRachman What are you studying?
 
Just dabbling with Topology
 
@JulianRachman I understand...
 
6:16 AM
@Julian What in particular about topology?
 
My research abstract is due on the 24th so I am pressed for time
@DemCodeLines Give us more context to your question and maybe we will have an answer.
@BalarkaSen I am just skimming through everything that interests me for right now. Once March 18th passes, I can work on Alg. Top. "full-time"
 
Well, you have to learn some point-set topology carefully before that :)
 
True that^
Hi guys, btw :-)
 
@Balarka Of course. :)
 
Hi skull.
 
6:20 AM
Is guest skull?
 
Yep
 
Oh. Hi skull.
 
Hi pal.
Nice avatar.
 
Thank you. I have been playing around with it lately.
BTW what happen to your account?
 
Nothing.
 
6:24 AM
Ok.
 
Are you still playing hockey?
 
I am. I am surprised that you still remember. :)
 
:)
 
 
3 hours later…
Huy
9:12 AM
@DanielFischer: I know that for $S$ being any surface, if $\chi(S) < 0$, we can equip $S$ with a hyperbolic metric. is there anything we can say about the Euler characteristic given a surface with hyperbolic metric? is it possible to have a hyperbolic metric on surfaces with $\chi(S) \geq 0$?
 
hey guys!
The floor is parallel to the (x, z) plane of the calibration view frame. Therefore, if

Rc = [x y z]
is the rotation of the calibration view w.r.t the camera, then the floor has rotation

Rf = [x z y]
(assuming the normal vector of the floor goes into it. If you prefer that it goes up from it, then it would be Rf = [z x -y]).
Can someone explain to me how Rf was obtained here?
?
 
@Huy For closed surfaces, $\chi(S) \geqslant 0$ means $S$ is the sphere or a torus, doesn't it? These aren't hyperbolic. For open surfaces, I don't know, can there be an open surface with non-negative Euler characteristic?
(except the plane)
 
Math overflow noone->helpful!
 
9:32 AM
@DanielFischer If open surface means 2-manifold with boundary, what about torus mius disk? This deformation retracts onto wedge of two circles, which can be given a cell structure with one 0-cell, two 1-cells and zero higher cells. So $\chi$ is $1 - 2 = -1$, isn't it?
(I can't answer @Huy's question because I don't know what a hyperbolic metric is)
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: a complete, finite-area Riemannian metric of constant curvature $-1$ such that the boundary is totally geodesic
 
Do you think it is likely that I know what those individual terms mean? :)
 
Huy
yes
@DanielFischer: do you know under what conditions the universal covering map is a local isometry?
 
I have learnt to differentiate correctly about a month ago, so sorry to disappoint. But $\Bbb T^2 - D^2$ certainly has something hyperbolic about it, as universal cover of it is homotopy equivalent to a hyperbolic graph, whatever that means.
I usually interpret "surface of genus $g$ is hyperbolic" by the vague picture that the universal cover is upper half plane and the translates of the fundamental domain triangulates it in a "hyperbolic" way. Something like that seems to happen here.
 
@Huy Yeah, as soon as I was out of the door, I realised that the disk has the same Euler characteristic as the plane. So for open surfaces, we can have hyperbolic surfaces with nonnegative Euler characteristic. The universal covering is a local isometry if and only if the metrics are chosen suitably. If you take a metric of constant - nonzero - curvature, it's an isometry if and only if the curvatures of the base space and the covering space are the same, iirc.
 
Huy
9:43 AM
ok, that's very useful to know, I'll have to check the result
thanks a lot
 
@BalarkaSen Surfaces have no boundary (in this situation, we're talking about Riemann surfaces - at least I am), an open surface is a non-compact Riemann surface.
 
Ah, OK, you're talking about noncompact closed 2-folds. I interpreted "open surface" as a 2-manifold with boundary.
I also misread "non-negative" as "negative". In which case, of course the disk works - it's homotopy equivalent to $pt$.
$\chi = 1$.
 
10:05 AM
Thanks for the "warm" welcome to your room pal @BalarkaSen :P
 
You'll probably get warmer ones if you start interesting discussions, skull.
:)
 
Fair enough.
 
10:19 AM
Does anyone know of an easy way to make gap display a list with each entry on a new line?
 
Huy
???
 
@Huy Was that to me?
 
Huy
yes
 
@Huy By gap, I mean GAP (the computer program)
 
Huy
ah
 
10:27 AM
I am computing a bunch of traces, and it would be easier to extract the information with a better way of displaying the lists
 
11:04 AM
Given $f: \Bbb R^m \to \Bbb R^n$, I can realize $Df(a)$ as a map $\Bbb R^m \to L(\Bbb R^m, \Bbb R^n)$, $a \mapsto Df(a)(-)$, mapping vectors to linear maps. $L(\Bbb R^m, \Bbb R^n)$ is the space of all linear maps from $\Bbb R^m$ to $\Bbb R^n$, which can be identified with space of $n \times m$ matrices, which can in turn be naturally identified with $\Bbb R^{nm}$. Under that identification, we can write down the derivative of $Df : \Bbb R^m \to L(\Bbb R^m, \Bbb R^n) \cong \Bbb R^{nm}$.
When $n = 1$, this is the same as the Hessian, so we have the very convenient formula $Hf = D(Df)$. Trivial, but this is a good explanation of why the Hessian should be the second derivative: so far, my only explanation was that it is the best quadratic approximation to $f$ (modulo appropriate conditions), i.e., the second order Taylor series.
Thinking of the derivative as a linear map-valued function is slick.
 
 
1 hour later…
12:34 PM
 
Happy to help.
 
@Idle001 Well, what did you expect when people ask for a recurrence and you give something which is not a recurrence?
 
this is not asking for recurence, just a general formula
anyways, im open for dvts here
 
@Idle001 No, in the title it asks for a recurrence. There is not really any full question in the body (it is generally a very poor question actually).
 
(To clarify: I didn't really read what the question was about. I downvoted because I was asked to :))
 
12:39 PM
@TobiasKildetoft se gave you the power to click on down arrow
 
@Idle001 It did indeed, but I rarely do that on questions I find this poor. I prefer to save them for bad answers to good questions
 
otherwise, if there is a flaw in my different formula, im ready to learn
 
12:59 PM
this is really worth a downvote
 
I pass.
 
@Idle001 Stop acting the downvote martyr. You might even consider providing quality answers, but somehow I have a feeling that is not a realistic option
 
regarding the stream of dvts i underwent these just 2 days, im really a martyrs
i gave two downvotable hints because op didnt try anything his own
gosh
 
1:21 PM
anyways, i ll try to bruteforce all values to ensure my fomula is fine
just for self-satisfaction not anything else
 
2:13 PM
Find a function in $S$ (set of functions from $\mathbb{Z}$ to $\mathbb{Z}$ with the operation of composition) that has a left inverse, but no right inverse, and decide whether the inverse is unique.
Consider $f(n) = 2n$ and $g(n) = \begin{cases} 2n, & \mbox{if } n \mbox{ is even} \\ 4, & \mbox{if } n \mbox{ is odd}, \end{cases} $. Then $g$ is left inverse of $f$, since we have $(g\circ f)(n) = g(n/2) = n$ for all $n \in \mathbb{Z}$ but not right inverse of $f$ since $(f\circ g)(n) = \begin{cases} n, & \mbox{if } n \mbox{ is even} \\ 8, & \mbox{if } n \mbox{ is odd}, \end{cases} $.
If this is correct, how do I decide whether the inverse is unique?
 
Hello@Balarka
 
Hello.
 
What math are you doing@Balarka?
 
Algebraic algebra. Also, some amount of geometric geometry.
Mathematical mathematics, in general.
 
Thats one way to describe what you are doing
When I see the things that I had missed while running through every book I saw I missed quite a lot. Actually I missed some very beautiful things indeed. Like for example: Yesterday while reviewing combinatorics I saw that how I had missed things like a combinatorical proof of the binomial theorem(A version you can say). It is very cool in fact.@BalarkaSen
 
2:27 PM
Indeed, it's not true that relatively elementary things are always boring.
Can you tell me the proof? (if you have time, that is. Asking because I have forgotten it :D)
 
Ya sure.
 
OK, no, I do remember one combinatorial proof but I am not sure if that's what you are referring to.
But go on.
 
I am referring to the one which use a generating function for the subsets of the set $\{1,2,3,..,n\}$
 
So, there are $2^n$ subsets. And you count subsets of cardinality $m$ by $\binom{n}{m}$, yeah?
 
thank god my formula is sain, but still dont know how is it simplified to the one noted in oeis
 
2:32 PM
So first building some notation. The book denotes $[n]=\{1,2,3,...,n\}$. Now consider the generating function which gives subsets $$\sum_{A\subseteq [n]}\prod_{i\in A}x_i$$
Now for say $n=2$ you will see that that sum equals $x_1x_2+x_1+x_2+1$ where the empty subset whose product is given by 1
 
Go on.
 
Then you can see that this can be factored into $(1+x_1)(1+x_2)$
So by inspection you can say that ,that sum should equal $(1+x_1)(1+x_2)...(1+x_n)$
 
Right, I get it. You can set $x_1 = \cdots = x_n$, and count that coeff of the terms whose exponents is $m$ is precisely the $\#$ of card $m$ subsets, which is $\binom{n}{m}$.
 
Yes. I really liked it
 
I was thinking of something like that. Good proof.
 
2:39 PM
@robjohn hey. Did you manage to calculate that series?
 
There is an awesome book on combinatorics. I read it there
 
@robjohn can i have some of ur time plz
 
The book is Richard Stanely Enumerative Combinatorics. Have you heard of this book @BalarkaSen
 
Nope.
 
Okay bye. Got to go and study
 
2:43 PM
@robjohn in my recent answer the oeis formula is just product of two terms $2^(n-1)*(1+2^n)$, while mine is titanic size !!! is there a secret behind how two forms are outputting same results but different shaped ?
 
@Hippalectryon no one calculate so far
I wonder why ...
 
And Mathematica won't solve DSolve[{D[R[t]^3 v[t], t] == R[t]^3 g - R[t]^2 b v[t],
D[R[t]^3, t] == 3/4*r^2 (g t - v[t]), R[0] == 1, v[0] == 0}, {R, v},
t] :((
:P
 
OK, MAYBE NOT, I've changed my mind. :D
@Hippalectryon I did a small update to this question, the last edit
2
Q: Another way of doing integration

I'm an artistWhat's your option for calculating this integral? No full solution is necessary, it's optional as usual. Calculate $$\int_0^1 \frac{2 \zeta (3)\log ^3(1-x) \text{Li}_2(1-x) }{x}-\frac{2 \zeta (3) \log ^2(1-x) \text{Li}_3(1-x)}{x}+\frac{ \log (x) \log ^5(1-x)\text{Li}_2(1-x)}{x}+\frac{\log ^4(1-...

 
3:00 PM
Haha
 
I miss her. :-)
 
Hello!!
Does it stand that $|\sin x|\leq 1$ ?
 
@MaryStar yes
 
That inequality holds for each x, right? @Hippalectryon
 
Work since early in the morning, with almost no break, I gave some food to the dogs, did some other things and continued my work. I didn't even take a break to eat a bit of anything. It's 17 here. Getting on top requires sacrifice @Hippalectryon
 
3:04 PM
Yes, for any x
 
Ah ok... Thank you!! :-) @Hippalectryon
 
@I'manartist You need to eat to work well !
 
@Hippalectryon I have a sharper mind when I don't eat.
 
And I have a sharper appetite when I don't eat :P
 
@Hippalectryon :D
 
3:08 PM
@I'manartist I'm working on TheGreatDuck's stuff right now, with some luck I'll find some mildy interesting integrals with floor functions
 
@Hippalectryon I have such integrals too. But these days I work on a totally different area.
 
It's fun how floor function integrals differ from the same integrals without floor, but just by a bit. I was expecting more awful forms
 
user116211
If anyone is interested in recent LIGO announcement, here is the link by NSF:
2
 
3:11 PM
@Hippalectryon Just make sure that you don't differentiate the floor.
 
@BalarkaSen O_o why would I ever want to do that ?
 
You don't want to make a mess of your own house, would you?
 
@BalarkaSen Well, they're already a mess. Just integrating $\int xE(x)dx$ yields $E(x)^3$ terms
 
You misunderstand me. I mean to say, breaking your own floor would be an awful thing to do.
 
Eww ._. me stupid
 
3:15 PM
But on the bright side, at least you're not differentiating the ceiling.
 
@BalarkaSen Don't worry if I break it I can always square it back :P
 
(a) Find a function in $S$ (set of functions from $\mathbb{Z}$ to $\mathbb{Z}$ with the operation of composition) that has a left inverse, but no right inverse, and (b) decide whether the inverse is unique.
(a) Consider $f(n) = 2n$ and $g(n) = \begin{cases} 2n, & \mbox{if } n \mbox{ is even} \\ 4, & \mbox{if } n \mbox{ is odd}, \end{cases} $. Then $g$ is left inverse of $f$, since we have $(g\circ f)(n) = g(n/2) = n$ for all $n \in \mathbb{Z}$ but not right inverse of $f$ since $(f\circ g)(n) = \begin{cases} n, & \mbox{if } n \mbox{ is even} \\ 8, & \mbox{if } n \mbox{ is odd}, \end{cases} $.

(b) Suppose there's another inverse $h$. Then $h(n/2) = n$, therefore $h(n/2) = g(n/2)$ hence $g = h$
Could someone please verify whether the above is correct?
 
@user276387 Surely you mean that $g(n)=n/2$ when $n$ is even ? Otherwise $g(f(n))=4n$
 
Oops, yes @Hippalectryon.
 
@user36790 Aw there's no sound :(
 
user116211
3:26 PM
@Hippalectryon ctrl+w
 
@user276387 For b), shouldn't you prove it for any $f$ ?
@user36790 That closes tabs (on Chrome at least)
 
user116211
WTF! Same problem;/
 
@user276387 That being said, your answer to $b$ is clearly wrong. Replace $4$ by any even number, and you have a new different left inverse.
 
@MaryStar for $x\in\mathbb{R}$ since the legs of a triangle are smaller than the hypotenuse.
 
@Hippalectryon I knew I wasn't confident with (b). How do I do it?
 
3:29 PM
@user276387 Well, I have just shown you that it's not unique :P
 
user116211
@Hippalectryon Sound is coming, at least in Opera ;/
 
@user36790 Yeah, it just arrived :D
 
So I could take h(n) = 2n, if n is even, and h(n) = 2 if n is odd -- and that would be a new inverse? @Hippalectryon
Oops, I meant $h(n) = n/2$. @Hippalectryon
 
I'm out in a break.
 
I get it now. Many thanks @Hippalectryon
What happened to Springer making all their online books free?
 
4:10 PM
@robjohn@I'manartist I require your help if you guess are ready to give:
I am trying to prove that $$\frac{\Gamma(m)\Gamma(1-m)}=\frac{\pi}{\sin(m\pi)}$$
We know that $\frac{{\Gamma(x)}{\Gamma(y)}}{\Gamma(x+y)}$ = $B(x+y)$ where $B(x,y)$ denotes the beta function. Now if I substitute $x=m,y=1-m$ I get $B(m,1-m)$ which equals $\int_{0}^{1}t^{m-1}(1-t)^{-m}{dt}=\int_{0}^{1}\frac{t^m}{t(1-t)^m}{dt}$. Now the methods I have seen after this all involve contour integration something that I dont know yet. So Is there any way of doing this problem by using the beta function and not contour integration
That should be $\Gamma (m) \Gamma (1-m)= \frac{\pi}{\sin(m\pi)}$
 
4:27 PM
@Albas there is no need for contour integration
 
@Albas I do this using contour integration in this answer, but I'd have to think about a non-contour integration approach.
@I'manartist ?
 
@Albas Essentially I can do anything without complex analysis.
Let me find the file.
 
Hi @iwriteonbananas.
 
Hey @BalarkaSen
Whatchu up to?
 
user116211
@BalarkaSen: Seeing?
 
4:41 PM
Calculus, mostly, @iwriteonbananas.
 
I learned about a geometric interpretation of the cup product
 
Did you give the fixed point involution thing a thought?
@iwriteonbananas Another one?
 
@BalarkaSen I tried for a while to find counterexamples, but none of 'em worked. I think it's true but didn't true to prove it.
@BalarkaSen What's the other one?
 
@iwriteonbananas There are two. Multiplication of ring-valued functions on chains, and intersection of transverse submanifolds. Which one are you talking about?
 
The latter.
 
4:44 PM
@iwriteonbananas I think it's true for reasonable spaces. I am going to work a bit on some topology tomorrow alongside calc, I'll see then.
There's a shitload of things I have to do.
@iwriteonbananas But you already knew about that one.
 
@BalarkaSen I couldn't even find a non-reasonable counterexample. Let me know if you get anywhere
@BalarkaSen True, but I saw a more rigorous version of it now
 
Oh?
The version I know is pretty rigorous. Not sure which one you are talking about.
 
Well, we defined intersection numbers of transverse submanifolds of complementary dimensions and then proved some theorem relating that intersection number to some cup product
Actually we didn't prove it yet, just stated it because the time ran out
 
OK, cool. You're quickly learning stuff that's way ahead of me. I can't catch up with you anymore :)
I'm envious.
:P
 
Well, I try my best but I'm still pretty retarded
 
4:52 PM
Disagreed.
 
If I knew what you know when I was was old as you are now....
 
You're not making sense. I'm 61.
 
By the way, there is a cool analogue of the Euler characteristic in the l^2 world
hahah
 
You're claiming you're 72 years old and still doing undergrad?
Yeah, man, that's retarded.
 
@BalarkaSen I started late :/
You got into it when you were 57. I am so jealous
But sometimes I wonder why you started high school so late
 
4:57 PM
Well, then, good luck with finding a PhD advisor when you're 90.
Just make sure you don't die before proving the 4 dimensional smooth Poincare conjecture.
@iwriteonbananas I entered high-school when I was 19. But it took me 40 years to graduate.
 
High school is tough,
 
Indeed.
 
I had to do 8th grade 27 times
 
Child's play. I failed final exams in 8th 17 times, 9th 10 times and 10th 11 times. That sums to more than 27.
OK, fun's over. I have a high blood pressure, and nostalgia makes me excited.
 
I hear ya
What percentage of problems from section 3.3 have you done, by the way?
 
5:07 PM
I can tell you precisely which ones I have done.
Just a second.
 
Plus or minus one or two, #1-#16 and #26-#33
 
cool, i'm started to do them all
i think i'm at 11 or something now
 
Gees, you just made me remember I skipped so much from 3.3. Also, there's a lot of things on homology I haven't thought about. Not comfortable with algebraic computations involving cup products either.
You're making me paranoid.
 
well, that's exactly my plan
 
5:11 PM
@iwriteonbananas 7-11 are my favorite problems, as I have told you and Anubhav numerous times.
 
i need to make you paranoid so you learn more faster. then i can ask you dumb questions.
 
@robjohn Ah ok... Thank you!! :-)
 
7-11 are great.
 
and 7-11 is a great gas station as well
 
5:12 PM
@Albas ^^^
This way is far more brilliant than any other way I've seen so far.
 
Do any of you here happen to know R?
 
Huy
yes and I dislike it
 
@MikeMiller you mentioned a while ago that maps $M^{2n}\to N^{2n}$ with $b_n(M)<b_n(N)$ have degree zero
and that it can be proved with Poincare duality
what was the proof you had in mind then?
 
I'll tell you when you can give me one.
 
lol
 
5:21 PM
ugh, fine, i'll give it a shot
 
I'm back to calculus. You have made me very paranoid.
 
@robjohn not only that I can do that without complex analysis, but I have probably the best proof to the Euler sine product.
Which, to be honest, it is a test very hard to pass in terms of an elementary solution.
 
Thanks @I'manartist I will.surely read that paper
 
@MikeMiller Ok, I think I have an idea:
 
Where's @Ted...?
 
5:37 PM
Wait a minute..
Ok
I think what I deleted was right
 
Hi bananas, @Julian (weird timing).
 
Hi @TedShifrin.
 
Well well well, look who we got here
 
@Ted! Miss ya.
 
@iwriteonbananas: Well, then undelete it.
 
5:46 PM
Hi @Balarka; goodnight @MikeM
 
Morning.
 
@Ted Lots of things have happened since you were gone.
 
Hmm, I guess bananas is too busy writing on papyrus.
@Julian: I haven't been gone recently.
 
@TedShifrin I tried to read the proof that if a function $f : \Bbb R^n \to \Bbb R$ is twice diffable, i.e., $Df : \Bbb R^n \to L(\Bbb R^n, \Bbb R) \simeq \Bbb R^n$ is diffable as a function, then mixed partials of $f$ are equal.
Dieudonne has a twisted mind.
I couldn't read a thing at first glance. I'll try later :P
 
It should amount to a similar proof to the one I gave, @Balarka. It's just fancier.
 
5:50 PM
@Ted well, from here.
 
Uh, you didn't give a proof in the answer I found the reference to Dieudonne's tome.
@Julian Ted hasn't been gone for more than a day.
 
@Balarka: It's still the mean value theorem from single-variable calculus, @Balarka.
 
Can you refer me to a more readable proof?
 
I don't know what you're referring to, but in my book I gave the standard proof assuming $C^2$.
 
Yeah, I know the proof for $C^2$ function. I don't know how to prove the thing I stated above (should I?).
2nd partials are not assumed to be continuous.
 
5:53 PM
If you look at Dieudonne's proof, he's basically doing the same thing (considering a rectangle).
 
@MikeMiller So, let $f:M^{2n}\to N^{2n}$ with $b_n(M)<b_n(N)$. Then we can choose some $a\in H_n(N)$ not in the image of $H_n(f)$. Let $\alpha$ be the Hom-dual of $a$ so that $f^*(\alpha)=0$. Now we choose an element $\beta \in H^n(N)$ such that $\alpha\cup \beta$ generates $H^{2n}(N)$, which exists by a corollary of P.D.
From $0=f^*(\alpha)\cup f^*(\beta) = f^*(\alpha\cup \beta)$ it follows that $f$ has degree 0
 
Granted, @Balarka, Dieudonné's theorem is slightly stronger, but I don't think you need to worry about it at this juncture.
 
@TedShifrin Hmm, let me have a look again.
@TedShifrin Oh, alright. I was just thinking that if I am to know some calculus, I should know a bit more. These are fun stuff, after all... but if you think it'd be unnecessary waste of time, sure, I will do as you suggest. :)
It'll take me more quickly to forms after all :P
 
@Balarka: You can generalize the result that $C^1$ implies differentiable, too, but it's a technical point and you should be learning the essentials to get where we're headed.
 
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