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12:02 AM
Can anyone help with this question?
Let A be a near-Jordan block, that is, a matrix obtained from a Jordan block by possibly changing the first column. Prove that no two Jordan blocks in any Jordan canonical form for A have the same eigenvalue.
 
Hi @Gridley
 
I have worked out det(A-xI) but that hasn't yielded anything useful
 
I've never heard of such a thing.
 
Hi @TedShifrin
I think its a construction just for this exercise
 
So the first column was just $\lambda$ and then all $0$'s?
hi @Ali
How are we allowed to change that?
 
12:05 AM
I think its such that if 'A' used to be J_(a,b) then when you delete the first column and row you get J_(a,b-1)
but the first column can be anything
So the easy case is where the first column is (1,0,0...)^T. (i.e. A is a JCF)
 
Oh, I guess I see. So if we change that $\lambda$ to a $\mu$, then the new Jordan form will consist of a single $\mu$ block and a one-lower-multiplicity Jordan block for $\lambda$.
Wait, do you put your $1$'s above the diagonal? That's what I'm doing.
 
Hi @Ted. Your ex-colleague Will Kazez gave a lovely lovely talk today.
 
@MikeM: Even though he's refused to speak to me for 12 years or so, yes, he gives great talks.
 
Is it necessary that the new jordan form has lambda as an eigenvalue though?
 
12:07 AM
Yes, @Gridley, because there's going to be $\lambda$'s down the rest of the diagonal.
 
Well it is quite easy to work out the determinant of this new matrix, and I think lamda will only be an eigenvalue if the last element of the first column is 0
 
@TedShifrin Oops. I didn't know there was bad blood.
 
No biggie, @MikeM. He just is a spoiled child. But, yes, he gives beautiful lectures. Doesn't want to spend much time with students, but ...
 
I brought you up to him because I hadn't realized. I guess that was a mistake.
 
@Gridley: I guess I changed just the top entry of the first column. Are we supposed to change it at random.
Nah, not a mistake, @MikeM. I'm sure he deflected.
 
12:11 AM
Indeed. I'll drop it.
 
from the wording of the question I thought you could change the whole of the first column
 
Not your fault in the least. His wife and I are still good friends — she came to my retirement celebration; he didn't.
 
I got this by the way: $$det\left ( A-xI \right )=\left ( a_1 -x \right )\left ( \lambda -x \right )^{n-1} + \sum_{i=2}^{n-1} a_i\left ( x-\lambda \right )^{n-i} - a_n$$
 
Let me think about changing more than the first entry, @Gridley.
 
Where $(a_1,...a_n)^T $is the first column and $\lambda$ is the original eigenvalue of the old Jordan block
and it is an nxn matrix
 
12:14 AM
Yeah. I'm thinking about just $2\times 2$ matrices.
So then it's dumb, because you either get two distinct eigenvalues or you get one Jordan block with a repeated eigenvalue.
OK, on to $3\times 3$.
The terminology makes me think it still has the same shape, @Gridley, i.e., the first column is $(\text{blah},0,\dots,0)$. Does your exercise not define it more precisely?
 
Got it.
 
I feel like I need to use nullities here, but computing them seems too involved
 
I think the approach has to be more elegant, if the first column can be anything.
I've never seen anything like this.
 
Maybe we need suggest a linear map for which this would be a matrix?
 
12:27 AM
Be my guest :)
Have you been taught row/column operations on polynomial matrices?
The rest of your assignment is totally straightforward. This is so bizarre. I wonder if he meant just changing the top entry.
 
we have recently been taught functions of matrices, so how to find the exponential of a matrix via Lagrange interpolation.
 
nah, I was thinking about the module-theoretic way of determining Jordan form
 
That does not ring a bell, sorry
yeah, the rest was fine. It's just this questions which totally threw me.
 
Yeah, well, if it makes you feel better, I'm no better off than you.
But I've had a long 8 hours.
 
If it is only the first entry that has changed then it would be almost trivial
 
12:32 AM
Yup.
Well, not totally ...
Well, here's something to ponder. If the original Jordan block had eigenvalue $\lambda$, we can write the original matrix as $\lambda I + N$, where $N$ is the nilpotent stuff left over ($1$'s above the diagonal).
So $A = \lambda I + N + C$, where $C$ is a nonzero first column.
For $\mu$ to be an eigenvalue of this, $\mu-lambda$ must be an eigenvalue of $N+C$. Can you play with that?
Hi @Semiclassic
 
Hmmm. If $\lambda - \mu$ is an eigenvalue of $N+C$ then $\lambda = \mu$
 
Huh? Why?'
 
Well the determinant of $(N+C) - xI$ is 0 no?
oh wait ignore that
 
@Semiclassical I got that triple delta problem right!
 
erm, $det(N+C-xI) = a_1(-x)^{n-1}$ The only root of this (unless $a_1=0$) is $x=0$. So if $\lambda - \mu$ is an eigenvalue then $\lambda - \mu=0$ ?
 
12:42 AM
You miscomputed.
You get a polynomial with the entries of $C$ as coefficients.
 
oh of course, its not an upper triangle
 
So I guess that's what you need to think about. You get the original eigenvalues by adding $\lambda$ to those. So it suffices to understand the $n$th degree polynomial with the entries of $C$ as coefficients. (I don't know if you've seen rational canonical form. But this is related to that.)
 
yeah my bad. you just expand across the first row. and you get the poly you described
 
So it reduces to understanding the Jordan form of $N+C$ and seeing no eigenvalue repeats in its Jordan blocks. (That's not a deep reduction we've made.)
But now I don't see why I should believe that.
Well, when you figure this out, please let me know :)
 
Sure, I'll email my lecturer to first see if he made a typo though.
 
12:48 AM
So look at the case where that polynomial is a power of $x-c$. Why couldn't you get two Jordan blocks with eigenvalue $c$?
 
> (O1): The union of an arbitrary subset of τ is an element of τ.
(O2): The intersection of any two elements of τ is an element of τ.
 
Are you doing topology now?
 
That's the example you should think about for a $3\times 3$ or $4\times 4$. Interesting question, @Gridley.
 
Looks like the axioms stating that τ is closed
@0celo7 yes
 
Hi, bye @0celo :)
 
12:49 AM
@TedShifrin Hi
Bye?
 
I've had a long day ... I'm done with math.
 
@0celo7 do you agree?
 
I feel like that too often...
 
@DHMO I don't know what you mean by closed
 
hi @ted
 
12:50 AM
Well, @Gridley, you're young. If you're tired out already, that's not good :P
 
It's closed under unions and finite intersections, sure.
 
@0celo7 exactly
 
@TedShifrin Maybe he's 80
 
No, I know Gridley from before. I guarantee he's not 80.
 
its more being up at 2am doing assignments haha
 
12:51 AM
There is a woman in my nuclear phys class who was around during the Manhattan project
 
Pretty cool, actually.
Anyhow, @Gridley, play around with the case I suggested (like $(x-1)^3$ or $(x-1)^4$) and see what happens.
Let me know :)_
 
@0celo7 I don't understand why topologies that satisfy the open set axioms contain only open sets
 
Definition?
 
Nice. I need some sleep for now though. Thanks for your help!
 
Night, @Gridley. Zleep wellz.
 
12:52 AM
@DHMO huh?
 
The definition of a topology is that it's a collection of open sets.
 
@0celo7 Which one was that?
 
@TedShifrin but the definition of open sets is that [insert complicated things about epsilon] right
 
@Semiclassical Problem 1 on the latest problem set.
 
12:53 AM
No.
 
oh, the condition on that potential, right
 
Ye
 
I'm not looking at web links.
I think I know more.
 
> Let S be a subset of a metric space. Then the set S is open if every point in S has a neighborhood lying in the set.
Is this definition right?
 
12:55 AM
Ohhh, subset of a metric space.
 
Metric space != topological space
 
General topological space is not a metric space.
 
never mind
 
Reading is important.
Bye, all.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:29 AM
@TedShifrin hi ted :)
@TedShifrin bi ted :(
 
Hi Ali
 
@AliCaglayan interesting
why it is hi, but not bi
 
@0celo7 "bye" is a contraction of "goodbye" which is a contraction of an archaic form of "God be with you"
 
huh didn't know that
 
when your brother is a medievalist you tend to pick up useless knowledge
not to say there's anything wrong with useless knowledge
 
2:36 AM
hah. i don't consider that useless, but sure.
 
well, etymology isn't useless in general, but it's not terribly useful to me unless I want to figure out the meaning of a word without context clues
 
fair enough.
how's life?
 
life is good
just talked to the chair of my math department today to figure out what I need to do
I'll be back in school next semester and should have my bachelor's by next December
 
awesome
 
and then, with the research I hope to do in the next year, I should be able to go to grad school
 
2:39 AM
Excellent. I wish you luck on your mathematical career :)
 
thank you!
 
meanwhile, I need to decide if I want to sleep or do math
 
@BalarkaSen I take it there's no genera formula for $\inf A-\inf B$?
 
I don't understand what you mean by formula
 
like $\sup A+\sup B=\sup(A+B)$
 
2:46 AM
I guess not
Hi @TedShifrin
 
@TedShifrin hello
 
$\inf A + \sup(-B)$.
Hi @Balarka @0celo
 
But you can't write that as "something" of some set, can you?
 
@TedShifrin Sure, but not what I need
 
Not in a clean way at least
 
2:47 AM
@BalarkaSen Exactly
 
nah.
 
@TedShifrin I think I asked this yesterday, but: can it happen that in a manifold a geodesic doesn't exist (so not complete) between two points but a locally distance minimizing path does? In $\Bbb R^2 - 0$ for example neither exists between a pair of antipodal points.
 
Locally distance minimizing? What does local mean there?
 
Any distance minimizing path must be a geodesic.
 
Critical points of the length functional are smooth geodesics.
 
2:53 AM
@TedShifrin Interesting. There's no theorem like that in the notes.
 
This isn't a grad course, Balarka.
You have more to learn.
 
@0celo7 On a neighborhood of the path space, in an appropriate topology.
 
Hopf-Rinow is a beautiful theorem.
 
Ah, I didn't realize this is graduate material.
 
Your question is :)
 
2:54 AM
Gotcha. Thanks.
 
@BalarkaSen See Milnor, page 72.
 
Yeah, Hopf-Rinow is nice.
@0celo7 Thanks, I'll have a look.
(Only because you referred to Milnor, not Lee)
 
It's in Lee too...
 
Clairaut is really cool, @Balarka. And wondering what geodesics can be asymptotic to. Good exercise in there.
 
I had that question too, but didn't ponder on it.
Skipped a bit ahead of Clairaut, need to fill that in.
 
2:58 AM
See #27.
#28 is quite cool, too.
#16 not obvious.
 
$$\left|\inf_{\delta>0}\sup_{y,z\in I_\delta(x)}{|f(y)-f(z)|}-\inf_{\eta>0}\sup_{w,v\in I_\eta(x)}{|g(w)-g(v)|}\right|$$
This thing lol
talk about a headache
 
I'm not even going to ponder.
oscillations?
 
yes
 
Ah, #28 is the question you told me about when I was cooking up gradient curves which takes arbitrarily long time to reach a critical point.
 
trying to make it $\le 2\epsilon$ if $|f-g|\le \epsilon$
 
3:01 AM
Right, @Balarka. Good memory :)
 
Very natural questions, both 27 and 28.
 
I told you I'm proud of my exercises, @Balarka :)
I stole 28, though.
At least, the main result.
@0celo7 Interesting. Either obvious or false :P
 
@TedShifrin Prof said it was obvious, but I think he naively combined the infs and sups
maybe I'm wrong
 
What's $|\|f\| - \|g\||$ on a given interval, @0celo (sup norm).
 
They're all very cool, stolen or self-made. :)
 
3:04 AM
Well, 0celo, maybe he's just using triangle inequality?
 
@TedShifrin $\le ||f-g||$
@TedShifrin yeah but how do you get $f$ and $g$ next to each other
 
how is this false?
> If f is a smooth function with df=0, then f is constant.
 
I don't see what pointwise control over $|f-g|$ controls the difference in oscillations. We can cook up an example where $g$ oscillates off-period from $f$.
 
If you just combine the infs/sups, then
$$\inf_{\delta>0}\sup_{I_\delta(x)}[{|f(y)-f(z)|}-{|g(y)-g(z)|}].$$
Some manipulations give
\begin{align*}
|f(y)-f(z)|-|g(y)-g(z)|&\le |f(y)|-|g(y)|+|f(z)|-|g(z)|\\
&=|f(y)-g(y)|+|f(z)-g(z)|\le 2\epsilon,
\end{align*}
so that
$$|\omega_f(x)-\omega_g(x)|\le \left|\inf_{\delta>0}\sup_{I_\delta(x)} 2\epsilon\right|=2\epsilon.$$
 
Disconnected domain, @DHMO.
@0celo: I don't think I believe it.
 
3:07 AM
@TedShifrin The claim or what I did?
What I did is false :)
 
The claim.
 
@TedShifrin problem is the functions have to be discontinuous
 
Of course.
 
@TedShifrin How is df defined in discontinuities?
 
I didn't say discontinuity, @DHMO. Read!
 
3:09 AM
@DHMO you can define it on (-1,0) and (0,1), for instance
like =1 on the first part and =2 on the second
 
1 on the first, 2 on the latter
 
I hear echoes.
 
@BalarkaSen Ha!
 
"Great minds think alike" :P
 
Save for the quotes and the ":P", that's the nicest thing you've said to me
@TedShifrin Would you believe $4\epsilon$?
 
3:11 AM
You can't just change the context by deleting the scare quotes and the sarcasm face
 
I'm no longer sure, 0celo.
 
hi @chat
 
hi semi
 
@TedShifrin i feel like i'm repeating myself, but I made some progress on my forms thing. pretty inelegant right now but it's something
 
I'm glad, @Semiclassic, but I'm too brain dead to think about it now :)
 
3:13 AM
mmkay
 
@TedShifrin: been tutoring kids again?
 
what I'm wanting to get to is understanding Griffiths-Dwork reduction but uh
that's hard :/
 
Long... day. No, not today.
And I have a few days to get everything ready for a 2-week trip.
 
@TedShifrin I did some digging, this seems to be in books.google.com/… on page 19
 
oh right, that.
 
3:14 AM
What is it, 0celo?
 
@0celo7 what about 0?
 
The idea is that if $g$ is continuous, then $f$ being close to $g$ makes it so that the oscillations are bounded
because it can't oscillate that far away
 
@DHMO It's not defined there. It's still continuous on the domain.
 
Real Analysis
By Brian S. Thomson, Andrew M. Bruckner, Judith B. Bruckner
according to google books
 
Take the same example on (0, 1) and (15, 16) if you want.
 
3:16 AM
No, I'm asking what they say. I'm thinking the $2\epsilon$ actually is correct.
 
bad example, domain is not open
 
@BalarkaSen that's rather... tricky
 
@0celo7 Easy to fix
 
@DHMO: It shouldn't be tricky if you understand it for calculus in one dimension.
 
3:16 AM
@DHMO It's a subtle point, sure. But should be obvious once you hear it.
 
@BalarkaSen Of course.
 
@0celo: So let's take $x_n, y_n$ so that $\omega(f,x)=\lim| f(x_n)-f(y_n)|$.
$x_n,y_n\to x$.
 
Yeah.
 
By triangle inequality, $\omega(f,x)\le 2\epsilon+\lim |g(x_n)-g(y_n)| \le 2\epsilon + \omega(g,x)$.
Oh, I need a limsup or something.
Maybe that's why I wasn't believing it in the first place.
 
Use triangle twice?
 
3:20 AM
Then reverse, yeah.
 
How do you know $\lim|g(x_n)-g(y_n)|$ exists, stupid question
 
Not stupid. That's why I said I think I need a limsup.
 
and it's $\ge \omega(g,x)$? or is that what you meant by "reverse"
 
133
A: Examples of common false beliefs in mathematics

Alekka student, this afternoon: "this set is open, hence it is not closed: this is why [...]"

 
No, I meant switch $f$ and $g$.
 
3:21 AM
Hey @Ted
 
No, the oscillation is the maximum difference as $x_n,y_n\to x$.
Heya @cbjork !! How you be?
 
I'm pretty good! I'm taking the GRE tomorrow morning. How are you doing?
 
So probably I should have $\omega(g,x) = \limsup_{x_n,y_n\to x} |g(x_n)-g(y_n)|$?
Good ruck to you. Get lots of sleep, @cbjork!
So I think it works, @0celo. But I don't give any money-back guarantees!
 
@TedShifrin Lim sup?
Oh wait
It's an inf of sups
 
I'm heading to bed soon. I have to say that differential forms are way easier the second time around.
 
3:24 AM
@cbjork ... y'all have disappeared ... even when I've messaged on FB or wherever ... not a word from kaj, hardly a word from others.
LOL, @cbjork. They're actually quite cool.
@0celo, I'm doing the inf by choosing sequences.
 
Kaj hasn't been around for a long while
 
I know, @Balarka. I worry.
 
I've been busy, @Ted! I haven't seen Kaj, either.
 
@TedShifrin right, does your computation depend on the sequences used? This is reminiscent of our semicontinuity discussion
 
It should be, @0celo.
I picked an "optimizing" sequence for $f$, but it won't be for $g$, 0celo. But seems it shouldn't matter the way I first thought.
I hope you're doing well, @cbjork. Make me proud :)
 
3:26 AM
I probably have his email somewhere.
 
I'll let you know how it goes, I expect better than last time-- I'm a lot more prepared. How is life in California?
 
It's pretty good, but the whole world is imploding around us, @cbjork. Depressing/scary times globally.
I'll be back briefly in ATL/ATH the beginning of January.
@0celo: So I think I believe the result now. I just don't know what your prof was doing, but I didn't think about it.
What did the book you found say?
 
@TedShifrin But still make the sequences be optimizing for $f$?
 
Yes.
(Then swap $f$ and $g$, of course ...)
 
But how do I apply triangle to $\omega(g,x)$?
 
3:29 AM
What do you mean?
 
So I want to get $\omega(g,x)\le 2\epsilon+\omega(f,x)$?
 
Start over, choose different sequences.
(Just switch the letters $f$ and $g$ ;P)
 
@TedShifrin It just said that if $f$ is $\epsilon$-close to $g$, then it can't oscillate more than $2\epsilon$ away
no proof
 
If we somehow make it past Nov 8, let me know when you get to Athens. We'll have to get a group of past students together. By then I should be finished with applying to grad schools, which will be a relief! I'm still trying to choose where to apply to.
 
Oh, ok, well, we've given a proof, now. I just hate analysts and their inf's of sup's of inf's ... measure theory is full of that ugh.
 
3:31 AM
I'm honestly more confused now with your switching thing
 
@cbjork: Make sure there are some realistic safety schools where you can get support.
@0celo: It's the standard thing where you prove one inequality and then say, "switch the rôles of $f$ and $g$."
 
Whoa. "rôles"
 
Don't question my snobbish pomposity.
 
I'm going to apply to a wide spectrum of schools. I've heard good things about LSU and funding.
 
We sent a pretty good student to LSU about 8 years ago.
He was my advisee, never took a class from me.
Hmm, I should look for him on FB.
 
3:33 AM
@TedShifrin oh, sure
 
@Ted I should go, the test is in 9 hours. I'll keep you updated!
 
Night, @cjbork. Do well!
Hmm, he disappeared. Maybe he defriended me cuz he's a Trump supporter :P
 
lol
 
looks like he removed himself from FB entirely
 
@TedShifrin So I should prove that $\omega_f(x)=\limsup|f(x_n)-f(y_n)|$ for some seq.s $(x_n),(y_n)$?
 
3:36 AM
Well, it's limsup over all sequences. You can choose particular ones so it's lim.
That's what I'm claiming.
 
But that doesn't prove $\omega_g(x)\ge \limsup |g(x_n)-g(y_n)|$
Don't we need that?
Limsup over all sequences o.o
 
I'm saying $\omega(g,x) = \limsup_{x_n,y_n\to x} |g(x_n)-g(y_n)|$.
Over all sequences.
 
Ok, I don't know what that notation means
 
So if you take a particular sequence, then ...
you get $\le$.
I'm saying that for any sequence, you get $\le$, but there is some sequence that gives you $=$.
Oh, or $\ge$ in the order I wrote it.
 
So I come up with a sequence space, then then compute the limits for all points in the sequence space, then take the sup of that?
 
3:39 AM
ugh
 
I'm trying to give a more hands-on way of dealing with the inf sup thing.
Go to sleep, @Balarka.
 
Already have slept and woke up.
 
@TedShifrin I understand the second part, but not the first.
Proof by contradiction I guess.
this probably isn't due for a week, I'll give it some thought.
 
The oscillation is largest possible limsup. There will be smaller ones :)
OK, but I think your prof is right.
Not necessarily his argument, though.
 
Yeah, it seems more involved than he suggested
 
3:41 AM
Not really.
It's just better to rephrase.
I don't always like using sequences, but ...
Anyhow ... you'll figure it out.
I'm gonna go lie down. My back is killing me.
 
thanks
ugh that sucks
 
Not good when I'm going to be driving over 1000 miles in the next weeks.
 
my dad has been out of commission for a few weeks
 
Get some well-deserved rest, @Ted.
 
two now
 
3:43 AM
My chiropractor/massage therapist aren't quite fixing me.
I've had serious back issues. It's no fun. Good luck to your dad.
 
Maybe that's what he needs. He'll never go for it
 
Oh, the chiropractor I had in GA was fantastic and kept me in great shape. The folks here in CA I've tried aren't nearly as good.
The guy in GA saved me when I couldn't move or sit or lie down.
 
They gave him valium to hold him over while they process his tests, but he refuses to take it
 
I need to fly back once a month to go to him :P
 
@TedShifrin Hmm
 
3:44 AM
Men are such stubborn mules sometimes :P
 
@BalarkaSen Hatcher or sleep early?
 
sleep early.
 
youtube it is
 
asmr stuff?
 
asmr?
actually I should just go to sleep now and not set an alarm
bye guys
 
3:49 AM
bye
 
I find the stuff actually labelled asmr doesn't give it to me
 
me neither
I have seen a few creative ones by an Australian guy though
google says the name's Dmitri
 
I like ones with mysticism. Like "limpia," "smudging." "energy healing," etc. But if they talk I have to reduce volume so as to not hear their nonsense.
 
talkative videos ruin it for me
 
user228700
4:50 AM
Hi everyone :-)
 
user228700
I've a quick question.
 
user228700
My textbook says: "Define a relation $R$ on the set of integers $Z$, $aRb<=>n|(a-b)$"
 
user228700
What is it asking me to do?!
 
that stuff weirds me out
 
user228700
I've absolutely no clue as to what it is asking of me.
 
4:54 AM
It's not really asking you anything, it's just defining a relation on the set of integers.
@MikeMiller did you mean the asmrs? Dmitri's got a few where he doesn't do weirdo role-playing or nonsense talking stuff, but uses household materials to produce nice noise. I like those more.
none of them ever really worked for my insomnia anyway, so I stopped watching
 

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