The Periodic Table

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. well, i think we need to address everything in one policy, and then structure it like a FAQ, so that people who are asking these questions get the best help possible...

i guess i still have to think about it... i have not yet made up my mind

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. but that is in Sep 24!

Martin - マーチン

mayhaps i should post an answer there, see how that turns out

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

9:23 AM

@Martin-マーチン What if we try to answer this question: What part of the old policy we want to change?

@TanMath Not necessarily.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. timeanddate.com/holidays/iran/eid-al-adha

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Lunar calendar is 10 days short. So next year it'll be Sep 14.

Then Sep 4, and so on.

Martin - マーチン

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. i think this is difficult, i'd really rather want to build something up from within the comumnity, that does not rely on things from different communities...

i think we diverged too much already

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Our Islamic annuals go with lunar calendar. All the other events go with our own calendar.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. so basically you had no holiday on Nov. 26?

Martin - マーチン

9:25 AM

and we really need to adjust that before we grow any bigger

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Martin-マーチン Yes. We have to ask people what they want the policy to be.

But that'll need a gigantic answer, so it won't get much input.

We have to ask one question at a time.

@TanMath No.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. oh! but you do have a thanksgivingy holiday some other day?

Martin - マーチン

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Yeah, that's why I said it's gonna be a voyage not a trip :/

TanMath

@Martin-マーチン @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. what are you guys talking about? something with HW questions?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Yes.

Though it's not turkeys, but sheep.

@TanMath Yes. We wanna build the policy from scratch.

TanMath

9:29 AM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. what? it is simple! the questions must show as much work as possible, and be very focused. The anwers should not give a full answer but hints!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath I wish it was that simple.

For starters, the hint policy doesn't work.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. meaning?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Math.SE is famous for having VLQ short answers.

It's because of that hint policy.

Math.SE is famous for having VLQ short answers.

TanMath

30 secs ago, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Math.SE is famous for having VLQ short answers.

20 secs ago, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Math.SE is famous for having VLQ short answers.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. BTW, what does VLQ mean?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Very Low Quality

SE jargon.

@Martin-マーチン So my question is, what's the most important thing about the policy? What question should we ask first, trying to make the policy?

Martin - マーチン

9:35 AM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. aww that's already a mind bender...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Martin-マーチン I still wonder if the way we define homework is clear.

Martin - マーチン

you wonder correctly...

it's not really clear...

it's not even always clear to me

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. you want help?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

So, we should prolly have a post to replace the name 'homework'. Then a post about what homework means (Ideally, the consensus in that 'what is homework?' post.)

@TanMath Yep.

TanMath

I would suggest for questions with multiple parts that are similar, work out one part of the question, and leave the rest for the OP to work out (since it is similar to the other parts of the question)

Martin - マーチン

9:40 AM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. i agree...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Let's list down the issues @Mart:

1. Homework isn't defined clearly. It seems to me some questions get closed as HW while they're not.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. but 'homework' is a term that has been used by SE forever! and now you want to get rid of it

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

2. Sometimes homework calls in for big comment threads. And finally no answers.

TanMath

(although I have been noticing some SE sites are also having the same problems, such as Phys.SE)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Yes, since

And in addition I'd like to throw the name under the bus. If anyone comes up with a better, more general title, please don't hold back. I am a little bit tired of this: "But this is not homework." "It may not be homework for you, but on this page it is still considered to be homework. Please read the article from the link." "Y U no halp????" etc. pp. — Martin - マーチン ♦ Nov 20 at 3:17

3. Sometimes the homework is so bizarre it doesn't help anyone but the OP; which is against the SE policy.

Can you add more @Mart? I swear I could count at least 10.

Martin - マーチン

9:47 AM

I could probably find more, but we need to adress these big issues first

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

2 is more practical and important, 1 is more fundamental.

Which one should go first?

Martin - マーチン

i think on phys.se (not that i was peeking lol) they already changed it to exercises and homework

I think we should solve the fundamental part first, then extend it with the practical guidelines

i mean we started that in the recent meta discussion

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Martin-マーチン homework and exercises.

@Martin-マーチン But I didn't see anything rolling. :'(

Martin - マーチン

In that resort, I guess exercises would be alright... and keeping homework as a synonym...

in general I support Manish's idea of getting rid of the tag completely

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Mmmm . . .

@Martin-マーチン Get rid of the tag, but retain or expand the close vote?

I don't think I'm opposed.

One less meta tag for a dumper.

TanMath

9:52 AM

I do not agree of getting rid of the tag

make it an exercises tag

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Mhm, but @Mart, the tag serves a useful purpose:

People can discern what the question will be like in the first look.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. agreed!

why don't you look at other homework policies?

Phys.SE - meta.physics.stackexchange.com/questions/714/…

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Our current policy is the physics's homework policy.

Martin - マーチン

@TanMath that is exactly what i want to avoid

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. well, iirc they changed it already

so it is the old phys.se hw pol

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Martin-マーチン To what?

Martin - マーチン

9:56 AM

i believe they made it more strict...

TanMath

biology.se is not very detailed

Martin - マーチン

the questions now have to be conceptual

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath We're not talking about biology, physics or math. We're talking about a chemistry homework policy.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. but you can start here as a reference!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Martin-マーチン Eh? But we can't get rid of stoichiometry calculations.

TanMath

9:57 AM

anyway, i gota go, so nice talking to you!

bye! talk to you in a few hours (the usual)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath We are large enough a community not to be dependent on them.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. they are much larger (i think)!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath So what?

We're learning from past experiences, not following them.

TanMath

ok, it is your community, you do what you think is right

bye!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Mart another note: Is it okay if a question shows no effort but is generalized so it won't be specific to a few numbers?

Something like "how can I calculate molality with density and molarity?"

Martin - マーチン

10:01 AM

They can easily become too broad, but in general I'd not really consider them as homework... but sometimes it is of so basic knowledge, that ... *sigh*

they might still be homework after all...

oh well

so much to think about...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Your mind exploded yet? :P

Martin - マーチン

about to...

i am trying to work on another issue, but i can't concentrate lol

Martin - マーチン

10:22 AM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I need your help soon...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Martin-マーチン I think I'm around.

Martin - マーチン

Cool, you only need to make a few screenshots and insert them into the meta post I am working on right now.

i'll leave the notice at the appropriate places...

my interface looks different, because mod

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

K.

What is the post about?

Martin - マーチン

spam and flagging... i noticed something

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Martin-マーチン You made me curious. Be quick!

Is it something good, or something bad?

Is it a praise post for me?

Still writing @Mart?

My dad might need to work with my laptop, so I may be gone for two hours in like, 15 minutes.

Martin - マーチン

10:40 AM

Yeah, still writing...

So be quick.

i try

Thanks.

It's done, please take a look :D

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I SAW IT

@Mart your answer contains too much emphasis though.

Lessen the bold stuff.

Martin - マーチン

10:54 AM

just do it yourself :D

you are right of course :D

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. you have the power to edit...

I was in a hurry...

15 mins ago, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

So be quick.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

EDITING . . . PLEASE WAIT

@Mart

@Mart I think some examples as links would be awesome.

But I don't have mod tools; you do.

Martin - マーチン

I don't quite get it... what examples do you mean? A flagged and deleted question?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Link to a first post, suggested edit, VLQ and late answer that was spam.

The reviews are visible and not mod-only.

Feeds

1

Q: What shall I do when I see spam (in one of the review queues)?

In a few occasions if you use the review queues, you will find a post that is spam. The definition of spam according to StackExchange (and the internet in general; source) is: What makes something spam and when should I flag it? A post should be marked as spam ONLY when it contains an unsol...

Martin - マーチン

@Feeds thanks tardy feeds guy :p

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

11:02 AM

So if you link to the link of a first post reviews of a post that was spam, the post itself will be visible to 10k and the screenshot of the post would be even better.

Link to a spam suggested edit is visible to everyone.

@Feeds Have I told you I like your avatar?

Martin - マーチン

Ahhh I understand... but they are hard to find O.o

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I don't think they are for you. Go to some site stats or something and it'll be easy peasy.

Martin - マーチン

I'll keep that in mind and will add that as soon as i have the time to do it...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

OK. (/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻

Martin - マーチン

You have not included screenshots O.o

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

11:05 AM

Screenshots of spam?

Martin - マーチン

but edit looks great...

look at the parts where it says editorial note

i cannot make the screenshots because they look different for me than for the members

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Oh crud. Now I read your answer carefully.

Martin - マーチン

lol

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

OK I'm editing it, and adding some info about spam as well.

Martin - マーチン

Thanks, very well appreciated

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

11:55 AM

The latest answer is from @Jan.

I'm using her answer to demonstrate a spam answer. >:)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

1:02 PM

@Mart you there?

Could you sting this guy who's gone on an editing spree?

Martin - マーチン

1:18 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Whut? Who?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Martin-マーチン Someone's suggesting bad edits.

Martin - マーチン

i'll have a looky look

borderline...

well... I guess well see... so far he has an okay edit record

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Martin-マーチン He has basically changed some "Xing Y" to "How can I X Y?"

Martin - マーチン

yeah... i rejected a couple, too

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

1:34 PM

BTW lemme review the next first post so I could take a screenshot.

Martin - マーチン

imma not doing reviewing... i'm home already

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

K.

Martin - マーチン

can you also add the dialogue, you just removed the editorial notice :D pretty please

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

OK.

@Martin-マーチン Added back.

Martin - マーチン

yippie...

okidoki... i have to take care of some housework... see ya tomorrow

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

1:40 PM

\o

TanMath

6:11 PM

hello!

Mithoron

@Mithoron dang it, my whole life has been a lie. — Sujith Sizon 28 mins ago

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

6:49 PM

@Mithoron (removed) indeed.

TanMath

hey all!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath \o

Mithoron

7:12 PM

@TanMath Hi!

TanMath

Anything going on?

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. so what was finally decided?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Nope.

@TanMath I dunno.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. whatya mean? you were talking with @Mart!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Did you reach a conclusion about an answer on my biology question?

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. no, I never got time to work on it... I promise to answer it but!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:20 PM

But what? Answer it in a decade?

I might not be as patient and at least write a self-answer. Just saying.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. no! in a week

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ok ok! I am pretty busy! finals are coming up too! I actually shouldn't even be here!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:37 PM

See ya in a decade.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. see ya too!

Transcript for