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4:39 PM
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Q: Is one allowed to carry a gun for self-defense if local secular law prohibits it?

DanFThere is a rule of Dina D'Malchuta Dina - the law of the land is valid, providing that it does not conflict directly with Torah laws. There is a Torah law of Venishmartem lenafshotechem (Devarim 4:15), that one must do what he can to guard his own life. Certainly, when one knows that someone is ...

 
It seems that the controlling factor here would be the precise circumstances. If we can evaluate the circumstances and determine that carrying a gun is the only way to prevent an unambiguous threat to your life, it would seem obvious that Halacha would require you to carry a gun. If that determination can't be made, then it's a much more complicated call. I suspect that there are few places in the US in which the danger is that clear. For example, in NY, carrying an unlicensed gun could get a person arrested, and jail time could get a person killed, so the danger goes both ways.
 
If traveling through those dangerous neighborhoods unarmed is real Pikuach Nefesh, then it is forbidden to do so, no?
 
@IsaacMoses like DoubleAA, you've raised a very valid point, and I don't have any rebuttal. Your last comment approaches a credible answer, though, since you mentioned that there may be piku'ach nefesh being in jail. One point to that, though. In court, if proven that you killed in self-defense, you are innocent of murder charges. Gun possession - I don't know. Of course, without a prev. criminal record, you might not be jailed. Then again, Bernie Goetz was jailed for quite a while.
 
The more I think about it, the less I can believe that there are any places in the US where it's unambiguously pikuach nefesh to go without a gun, and where it's unambiguously not pikuach nefesh to go with one (licensed or not). As @DoubleAA said, if your commute case was serious, it would be forbidden for you to do that commute now, and your self-preservation drive wouldn't let you do it. On the flip side, if you go into a real war zone with a gun, you're still in a war zone. In fact, you may make yourself less likely to be robbed at the expense of being more likely to get shot.
 
4:39 PM
@IsaacMoses, you are allowed to go into dangerous situations for work, like climbing trees and the like. A bad commute seems no worse than that.
 
@Yishai examples abound - pediatricians, infectious disease doctors, cops, firemen, army ...
 
AFAIK, there is significant research correlating violent incidents with gun carriage (in the US at least). So if anything, it would be pikuach nefesh to not carry a gun with you.
 
Gun control laws are massively restrictive in New York City. One needs to obtain a rifle/shotgun OR gun/pistol permit from NYPD. All guns must be registered by police. One may purchase one weapon every three months and have no more than 200 rounds of ammo total. The ammo must match the gun caliber. The overwhelming majority of citizens will likely be granted ONLY a "premises" permit. One can transport the weapon with the trigger locked and weapon hidden in a case and can only do so between home and shooting range within city limits making NO other stops. Ammo has to be separate from........
.......line weapon. Certain weapons are completely banned. One technically requires a special permit when transporting a weapon through New York City. So, at least in NYC, you would have to do the following for the OP's scenario to play out: You would need to be in possession of an illegal gun/rifle/shotgun. You would be committing an illegal acts by concealed carry. You might be in possession of an illegal weapon. While you might assume you may shoot someone in self-defense, it's more complicated than that. Castle Domain Laws are limited to the confides of one's own property .......
.........Even if threatened with an Uzi, you still need to take precautions BEFORE shooting your own weapon. There are more factors than these, but let's go: Are you aware of what steps must be taken before shooting in self-defense? Does the Torah allow unconditional self-defense? Is it halakhakly permissible to break a just secular law that is NOT contrary to Jewish Law? Is it proper to carry an illegal weapon, an act that could potentially bring a healthy prison sentence and take you away from your family? What is the assumption concerning target practice? If you do not know how to....
........use the gun, does the Torah allow one to go into battle with no training on how to use a weapon. As a side note, become aware that most Americans have been bamboozled AR15's and AR16's ARE NOT automatic weapons. AR does not stand for "assault rifle" as we all have been told. It stands for "Armalite Rifle Company" (purchased by Colt in the early 60's) The AR does hold more rounds than a regular rifle, but you can only shoot one projectile at a time. Automatic weapons allow you to shoot continuously as long as the trigger is depressed. Really sorry for the rant.
 
@JJLL I consider a long (several) comments rather than a rant. Useful info - perhaps, some of it should be edited into my Q (moderator opinion?) The various questions in the 2nd comment are good, and perhaps, should be posed as separate M.Y. questions. I'll let you think about that. Thanks for the comments.
 
Thank YOU @DanF for YOUR kind comments. I will certainly look into your suggestions when I get home later
 
4:39 PM
@JJLL If I had the time, I would chat with you re: my opinions on "gun control". But I think you can tell, already, from the tone of my question. Now, I have to ride the subway ... w/o a gun on me. But I get a free "massage" :-)
 
I would love to chat with you too @DanF. I ride the subways as well and I suspect that we are heading towards the same direction on this issue. I'm not afraid BUT I am seeing things in much higher frequency that I haven't seen since the mid 90's; primarily homeless people and beggars. Wasn't there a shooting yesterday in a subway station in Bed Sty? Unless you have an exciting past history, you would likely have no trouble obtaining a Rifle/Shotgun permit from NYPD. It would be far more likely that Israelis and Palestinians would come to a peaceful resolution than you would ever .......
........be able to obtain a NYPD "concealed carry" Gun/Pistol permit. Which leads back to my comments above. Fear of POTENTIAL harm is NOT an accepted reason for issuance of "concealed carry". Even persons who document carrying large sums of cash or valuables will likely be permitted a limited concealed carry limiting the hours and locations that the gun can be used. I am guessing that halakhakly, preemptive action is permissible. I will look into your suggestions above. Hoping to figure out a way to communicate with you Dan. Have a good evening.
 
@JJLL, Dan, please take it to chat. You should be seeing an automatic prompt for that by now when you comment; click on that and it'll move your conversation to a linked chat room.
 
@MonicaCellio I don't see the link, but, please move all this stuff to chat, anyway, if you can. Chag Same'ach.
 
Wow, I thought by now it should have shown up. I apologize for my misstatement. I'll move your conversation to chat.
 

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