Hub of Reason

Heh

What did Gandhi say? "I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ"?

@Borror0, I gave a reference for the nutrition post. I have a degree in Health Ed with minors in Anthropology and Sociology. How should I deal with things that are related to my degree that the internet is still inadequate in providing references for?

Also, I don't understand why anyone would actually like Christ

he was actually an ass, based on the Bible.

He openly supported Old Testament Law

Believed in punishment and was inconsistent in his judgment

and he really wasn't that peaceful.

Well, if you compare him to the God of the Old Testament, he's a pretty decent guy

12:30 AM

@Borror0 I think the Dalai Lama has said something like, "I think I'd like a Christian, if I ever met one."

Well, if you compare him to Hitler, OJ Simpson is a decent guy.

I just inverse Godwin'd

How was it inverse?

Godwin is a comparison to Hitler

That's the reverse: it's a slam on comparisons to hitler

I thought it was simply a reference to Nazis.

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

-Wikipedia, obviously

12:33 AM

I implied that the comparison to hitler was unrelated to the character

Ha!

Reductio ad Hitlerum

Reductio ad Hitlerum, also argumentum ad Hitlerum, (Latin for "reduction to" and "argument to" and dog Latin for "Hitler" respectively) is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument, and is an informal fallacy. It is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. The suggested logic is one of guilt by association, a classic confusion of correlation and causality, as if to say that anything that Adolf Hitler did, no one else should do, for it will obviously or eventually lead to genocide. I...

So, I wasn't actually suggesting you compare him to Hitler, I was highlighting the flaw in comparing one person who is bad to one who is more bad as a justification for the admiration of the former

Right.

Like I said, I thought Godwin's Law merely meant a reference or comparison, not necessarily in a bad light.

The implication was that you shouldn't compare someone to hitler, though

12:50 AM

That latest climate change question is going to be dangerous for me...

Don't be afraid of danger.

Oh, look, a saturated fats question.

Hm, do I want to spend time on that, or do I want to pack more of my belongings into boxes for my move?

Hmmmmm

Actually, I should probably feed myself something.

@anthony137 I'm digging through my usual source to basically say "yes, any long term climate forecasting is utterly unreliable and pretty much wild guessing."

The truth is that we don't know what will happen and that is why we must prevent it

The stakes are too high for inaction

I don't think it's 'utterly unreliable'

But going back to validate a prediction against actual measurements needs to be done carefully.

Actually, predicting the weather is much harder than predicting long term averages

Since there are multiple things being forecast in most of these models. Global temperature is the last step in the process, and errors in any of the previous steps will cause errors in it.

@Sklivvz The question isn't about weather. It's about climate.

Should get edited, imho.

12:57 AM

then edit it

Weird. I didn't think I could do that yet...

You can suggest edits. We have to approve. APPROVED.

Ah.

it was in response to @Borror0 -- long term climate forecasting is an easier problem than long term weather forecasting (which is probably what has been widely referenced as being wild guessing).

Oh, certainly.

And modern GCMs are doing a lot more than predicting average global temperature.

But there's plenty of data to look back at. I'll need to look through the 1970 prediction again, and maybe do a little independent analysis on it.

And then there's the infamous Hansen 1988 prediction.

As well as the 2001 IPCC report, which should have some modelling data which can now be compared as well.

1:02 AM

@Sklivvz I was talking about climate change. As far as I know, the system is simply far too complex for us to model accurately. You can make predictions, but they are absurdly inaccurate. You'd have more luck of trying to predict a recession 5 years ahead of time (lol).

It depends on what degree of granularity you're looking for.

The 1970 guy neglected a bunch of stuff we now know isn't entirely trivial, but still came up with an answer which was mostly right, imho.

And part of the reason he was off is because he incorrectly predicted the change in CO2 emissions.

Bah. This will have to wait until tomorrow.

@SophieMonster RE: "how do I reference to stuff I know but have no internet reference for" ask that on meta please. :)

there's pretty much anything on google scholar or google books

I expected that to be the answer, but I think that's the kind of thing that deserves a meta post. When we start attracting people who actually know what they are talking about, that will be useful.

that was a quick summary for @SophieMonster, of course it would be great on meta

1:52 AM

@Sklivvz I have had the experience of knowing about things that didn't really have references on google scholar or google books

Studies not published online FTL

Q: References for the better informed.

In fact, right now I'm working on a pretty big project that could result in a publication in a science journal (or it could flop, I don't know, yet), but there is, as yet, nothing accurate about it on the internet.

Feeds

2:19 AM

0

I am fortunate to know about a variety of things and, sometimes, know a little more about a few things that the internet doesn't always have accurate, up-t0-date information on. For some of these things, my education plays a major role and while a standard bibliography can handle most information...

Wow, that's an attention grabber.

It is kind of like when you're having a loud conversation as you're walking into a room and you suddenly notice you're much louder than everyone else ...

that's kind the point of meta, for good or bad

2:35 AM

I'm glad I don't have a client appointment, tonight, my body hurts from moving boxes

If I may ask, what is your job?

I'm an adult entertainer of a variety of types.

I do everything from dominatrix sessions to phone sex.

My favorite is working as a pro domme

Okay. That's what I had the impression of, but I thought that required a bit too much versatility.

Basically, I contract with any good offer I get and am willing to do most things in the adult industry as long as they're sanitary, legal and don't involve sex with someone I don't know.

I don't do them all at the same time :)

I set my own schedules, so I fill in time I'm not doing D/s with webcam modeling and phone sex.

I also perform burlesque.

Awesome. ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/04/nyiragongo-volcano/…

I love that picture, too.

2:55 AM

If only have the stuff in that is true, I am so pro-nuclear (currently agnostic): telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8393984/…

I dislike how they're making nuclear out as if it is always unsafe based on Fukushima.

Fukushima was an old plant put through conditions that were impossible to predict.

And most modern plants are better built.

Also, coal and water energy sources are certainly worse off when it comes to accidents than nuclear power has been. :/

grumbes

@SophieMonster Honestly, Fukushima has made me more receptive to nuclear energy than before. It's an old plant that was built decades ago and inspections were not poorly conducted over the last few years. Yet, a tsunami and an earthquake of unexpectedly high magnitude didn't damage it enough to cause threatening levels of radiations to be emitted.

It was close.

Kind of takes care of the "if it all goes wrong, we'll die" scare

but, yeah, the damage has been minimal

The biggest scary part, though, wasn't the reactors, it was the spent fuel pool that had the explosion above it that ended up being the scariest real danger.

3:03 AM

My point is that, in spite of extreme conditions, nothing bad actually happened (however close it might have been). Canada is unlikely to be exposed to such extremes - or to have technology so outdated.

Well, bad things happened, but the bad things didn't cost us human lives.

Semantics! ;)

:p

I am a very detail-oriented person :D

tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html

Might not be as persuasive to someone in the adult entertainment industry

The point is still the same though: giving too much importance to details ruins the flow of conversation, and it doesn't usually bring anything to the table. YMMV

Haha. Little secret about me as an entertainer - I'm not like most that you encounter.

In fact, my peers rely on me because I'm very different.

An example of my difference is that I've been compared to Spock, Sheldon and Bones.

3:08 AM

Impossible. I have never met one

I'm the "well, actually..." person

Yet, I make my money off of socialization.

Ok, then I'm not like any you have heard about.

I think that the problem with people who feel socially awkward, the "well, actually" people and so on ...

it isn't that they are focused on details and things being correct that is the problem, it is how they convey their ideas that is the problem.

If you study things like learning theory and you see the studies on conditioned habits or information retention in learning, you find that one of the ways that people retain knowledge about something and end up with a positive response to it when it is discussed has to do with the reinforcers present when they learned about that thing.

That's also part of the problem, but not only. If I don't control myself, I can usually correct someone every five sentences. There is just no way that's an effective way to communicate. You have to pick your battles.

So, if you give a new, relevant fact, in a conversation, the reception to that is going to depend on if it is conveyed in a pleasant manner which offers a positive reinforcement and if it is expressed in a way that the information can be retained.

Yes, but the picking your battles thing is also misunderstood. I think people pick their battles based on who they're talking to instead of if that person is able to adapt to new information.

I pick it based on relevance and importance, and just focus on a good delivery

I don't like how that writer implies that the "well, actually" habit is at the root of not getting laid.

There are lots of reasons different people don't get laid.

3:16 AM

I think you're reading the comment too literally

That's possible.

3:48 AM

The geek coefficient is high on this one:

►

Feeds

5:21 AM

0

Q: Should Sklivvz be removed?

Title is clear. Vote. Even if SE does not observe it, it will stand for reference when we can vote.

discussion

5:34 AM

@Feeds ...really?

My reaction

Honestly, I'd love to know what he has done that is so wrong

Might make a good meta question

or not

I dunno, this all seems so counterproductive

Speaking of counterproductive, I should really delete Minecraft.jar and try to forget it ever existed until the end of this semester.

lol

I am happy because one slice is 200 calories and I feel like I had an actual meal

I just ate a slice of vegetarian pizza.

This makes me a happy Sophie

Because even though it is still only 200 calories, I feel like I ate a meal!

5:53 AM

I'm lucky enough that I never seem to have to know/care about calories, other than a few formulas for physics exams.

I'm told that metabolisms eventually change though.

I was diagnosed with diabetes in January and opted for the plan that enjoys the most success, when it is adhered to, and is also the most difficult one to pull off

it involves trying to keep your blood sugar levels extremely low.

@Jason I'm like that too, though when I got sick the lack of physical activity for over two years created enough fat to hide my abs which sucks. Now I actually have to work out to lose them.

@SophieMonster Ah. Going well so far?

Not so low that it will hurt you, but so low that your body can manage your caloric intake efficiently

So far, my blood sugar has been under control the whole time and I've lost 60 lbs.

I've lost so much weight, I had to change genres for some of my work contracts.

@Borror0 I used to have abs as well. I can still feel them there under a really thin layer of chub, which is good enough for me these days, haha

@SophieMonster nice

5:58 AM

the down side is losing clients who were into chubby girls.

Now I'm not as chubby.

I look more average.

Still curvy, but more average-curvy.

What's your field of work?

I'm an adult entertainer

Ah, cool

Q: Can we vote to remove a moderator?

6:11 AM

0

If there is disagreement about a moderator's actions, can we hold a vote to remove them?

discussion moderation

Fabian

@JasonPlank Seems we're really popular

Of course we are. Money and women here we come!

I think people disagree with the moderators less than they disagree with the scope of the site and how to ask questions, but just haven't realized it yet

I think that's at least part of it, but not all of it

Some users are upset because we deleted blatant insults or attempts to provoke other users

6:27 AM

@Borror0 yeah, I agree it's not that simplistic

Just hope cooler heads will prevail

I have yet to encounter an online community that didn't have conflicts between the moderators (or other leadership) and the community.

It comes with the territory.

Usually, Stack Exchange is pretty cool in that respect

Fabian

The elections are going to be interesting

It's just that we've been gasp too soft up until now

You're right, though, @Jason. I think part of the problem is that some people don't get how Stack Exchange works. Comments are second class citizens and, until you get that, some moderation decisions might seem odd.

I have to imagine that moderation here involves way more judgement calls than moderating on say, SO

SO has very little wiggle room for on/off-topic, and there are a few years of precedents to go by

6:35 AM

But a lot more posts to check!

I have 32 pokes on facebook. It is a good thing those aren't actual pokes. I'd start to develop some bruising.

@Borror0 true, the volume is a big thing

Why isn't there an extra place for discussing each question?

What do you mean?

I mean, because the comments are limited, as well as the questions and answers, why don't we have an extra space for discussion that is less formal?

6:40 AM

That's what chat is for :)

For that matter, why not have an extra social session?

section

yeah, but chat is not always convenient.

Though, I know what you mean. I often find myself thinking SE might benefit from a second third place

If there were more social reinforcers, you'd probably attract more people.

@SophieMonster to an extent, meta fulfills the purpose of extensive discussion

Though it's not strictly social

meta doesn't feel social.

It feels more like a place to talk about talking about things.

6:44 AM

I think meta.SO is at least somewhat social

especially on weekends

Hi @Paul (or, apparently, user33903)

Hello

meta.SO?

but yeah, the main idea is talking about how the site(s) work

meta.stackoverflow.com

SophieMonster, I like the idea. Wikipedia has the talk pages.

6:45 AM

it's the discussion area for topics that are relevant to all stack exchange sites

@user33903 yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it

And to talk about waffles

@Borror0 yes, of course, who could forget the waffles

Borror, I think I'm user33903 because launchpad has a very minimal openid server.

I get different numbers on each site.

Which is weird, because your name is displayed properly on the site itself

Good question by the way

Why are the comments on the first answer of the Muslim question not deleted?

6:55 AM

@Billare, too many to be worth the effort?

just kidding.

Many of them are useful (even referred to in the answer itself!), so it's a pain to decide which ones to keep and which ones to delete. I have been postponing doing this for a while now.

morning. apparently the so team has not fired me yet

@Sklivvz That's a lie.

@user33903 Re: the wikipedia comparison, see the block quote from Josh Millard here

I just typed something and it disappeared

erg

6:56 AM

Wait, "usefulness"? What talk is this? Isn't the overarching rule "StackExchange is not a forum"?

Isn't that what you justified deleting a similarly helpful 20+ comment thread for to me?

Or is there some new ad-hoc explanation you'd like to give me?

anyway, Paul, regarding the jury question you answered (which I looked at because I got side-tracked after looking at your profile to see the anomaly that was mentioned), a proper behavioral study could be done that would reveal biases in a jury-like situation.

You could test for variables such as appearance, speech patterns, posture and seating arrangements, all of which, I suspect, based on other studies, likely affect the decisions of a jury.

Since people already have biases in those areas which have been shown to exist, I can't imagine why it would be different in a courtroom.

Probably all true. The question was does-having-a-jury-really-increase-the-chance-of-justice-being-served . Not, are juries perfect, or immune to human error. The mathematical idea -- which is old -- was that majority rule or unanimity can improve decisions.

decisions made by "noisy" (inaccurate) humans

To find that, you'd have to compare other systems. You can set up the same test for each system type

You just need to determine if the accused is guilty.

Well, unfortunately, the workings of the justice system would never allow that experiment.

7:07 AM

I'm surprised that no study look at the efficiency of the different possible policies

You don't have to use the actual justice system.

Is the proposal to take someone, and have their trial multiple times under various rules?

Though, if you did have any restriction, there would be an ethics committee to deal with.

they would learn from the trials how to act and such.

Testing something like that in a set of pseudo systems is likely to get compared to the Milgram experiments

which are considered unethical to duplicate.

You'd have to have mock trials in which none of the participants interacted outside of the trial. Each, though, would be based on the same 'case'

7:09 AM

@user33903 we have something like that in Italy and it doesn't work too well. too complicated to declare someone guilty in the simple cases. The fact is - most trials are quite simple to judge.

Experimentalists in game theory could have taken a look at this.... but it would be highly abstracted. They would be giving subjects a "hint" on the computer screen and then placing them in the procedure.

You would have to use sets of cases in which the knowledge about the case is extensive.

I studied criminal justice before I decided I was more interested in Health Ed.

and I study psychology and neuroscience now (not in a university, but under the guidance of a guy who teaches at a university)

interesting.

In the following experiment you will receive $10 as a group if your group can correctly determine if X is true or false. Some of you will each receive a hint of what X is. Your hint is correct with probability ___... Then there will be a free discussion period. At the end of the discussion period you must vote.

That kind of thing...

I'm not sure I would structure it that way.

7:13 AM

well @SophieMonster there's enough crime in Medicine too, that could use your expertise :P

That's fine... but there is a body of research that does proceed this way.

I kinda like the direction I'm going. :)

I know, user, but the applicability is so limited, I'm not sure it would really answer the question well.

Its done fairly well with majority rule voting... law of supply and demand in markets... fees spent on legal cases as a function of who pays... some other stuff.

It would certainly produce interesting results.

I am just not sure it would answer the question because it eliminates some of the reasons that I think most trials tend to have bias.

Wow! @David in chat!

7:15 AM

indeed

Seems like meta.skeptics just died

can you people see meta? i get an error

yeah, i get the same

most metas seem to have the same problem, from what I aw in general mod chat

well, only for /questions

/unanswered seems to work

7:18 AM

you guys were fighting too much @Borror0, so they turned it off :P

Maybe it is faltering under my earlier criticism.

I like the last line of the error message: "It’s not strictly necessary, but if you’d like to give us additional information about this error, do so at our feedback site, meta.skeptics.stackexchange.com "

@IvoFlipse They? We did. It's part of the evil moderator overlord conspiracy. Don't tell the others.

OMG, I'm telling.

deletes user 530

7:20 AM

@SophieMonster telling who, everyone is in on it? what are you going to do, post it on skeptics?

ROFL

I'm gonna tell God and he's going to smite you.

you could always tell the guys on 911truth.org

And I'll tell the Jury

didn't we debunk the validity of juries already?

7:21 AM

@DavidHedlund invalid.

Nah

and the Jury will favor me because I'm going to wear a white, flowy dress, glossy make up and glasses so I appear more trustworthy.

Are you asking a group of people to come to a conclusion?

I will give them each 20 bucks.

David: I was banking on the jury being biased. I know enough about social biases, I could take advantage.

7:22 AM

@SophieMonster I could do that as well but I'm not sure it would be as well-received.

I will also make sure a hint of cleavage shows.

a sure sign of innocence, indeed

but what good is it if borror secretly hand-picks the jury?

It only matters if the jury feels emotionally reinforced by my appearance.

What's he going to do to remove perceived bias based on appearances? Castrate them?

moderators can do that.

(both options are selectable when punishing a user)

lol

7:25 AM

@SophieMonster Ever heard of gynophobia?

In that case, I know some veterinarians who sell neuticles for pretty cheap

@Borror0 Look, my question is not that hard. You deleted an ENTIRE 20+ comment thread, giving me the reason that "StackExchange is not a forum." That is the master rule. Now you're talking about "usefulness" in the comments. So I just want to make this perfectly clear: Is the reason you're giving that the former was ENTIRELY deleted and the latter is not that the former thread had no "useful" comments? WHAT DIFFERENTIATES THE FORMER THRREAD FROM THE LATTER ONE?

My ears

In LAX I sat waiting on call for jury duty with about 300 of my fellow citizens, and no one was called due to an unresolved IT problem. That's like a years economic output of one person down the drain for nothing.

If you capitalize a sentence, it makes our ears blead.

Also, it makes it a better sentence than all others on the screen

and we must bow to the superiority.

Ok, I'm done with the sarcasm.

7:27 AM

@Billare Mainly 1 thing. We discussed the former. We didn't discuss the latter. Too much evil conspiracy crap to deal with.

Sophie, I am not trying to yell. I am trying to emphasize; if there was a bold I'd use it over caps.

there is

bold

double stars

rawr

There is bold and italics

7:28 AM

use two asterisks around the stuff you want to bold

one for italics

@Borror0 Great. Now could you answer my question, please?

user: I've been selected for jury duty twice and they sent me home both times based on the interview because I said I didn't believe that the prison system (in Oregon) was capable of appropriate rehabilitation for most criminal types and that until they had adequate utilities and treatment, we weren't really helping people much by putting nonviolent criminals in there.

Honestly, I had never figured out Italics

I is happy now.

Yay

and this is even closer to utopia than before

@Billare Several comments were deleted from the latter as well, simply just as many. The useful comments were kept in both cases. Useful is defined as anything that improves the post (clarify, adds correction, points a flaw, etc.) to which it is attached.

7:30 AM

@Billare That is a bit rude.

No one was meeting up in dank rooms to destroy Atheism SE and turn it into a wank-fest.

Yet still, it died.

You could just mutter "guilty" a lot under your breath. That should work too.

@Kortuk What was?

ha

is chat really the place for this, or are we doing this here because meta died?

oh nevermind, i wouldn't know what chat is the place for

7:31 AM

This seems like chat to me.

@DavidHedlund, people will use every avenue if a single avenue is not heated enough.

surely you tried irc once upon a time

@SophieMonster In PA, we're about to start spending more on our prisons than education in the state budget. Priorities, priorities!

@DavidHedlund Chat is a place to discuss, I often use it to allow users to ask me moderation questions.

@Billare Billare, stop calling me immature, please. it's not the right way of expressing yourself - it's inflammatory without any reason. I know you ultimately don't want that

7:32 AM

@Kortuk LOL; How am I supposed to express this feeling about Sklivvz? Am I supposed to circle that in an oblique way? There are alot worse things I could have said.

@Sklivvz Don't worry; you've gotten my point. I certainly don't mean to be inflammatory.

@Billare Keep in mind. you constantly are.

@Billare It was a personal attack. I define that as rude.

If only there were some islands offshore, where the prisoners could be quarantined and required to create their own society. Australia turned out OK, didn't it?

@user33903 No

You must have been lied to

Australia did not turn out okay.

@Billare If you have a problem with a moderator, feel free to contact Stach Exchange Inc. by pressing the "contact us" link at the bottom of any page of the site. Insulting other users will not be tolerated. You have been warned several times, and once formally via email. If you no not cease to disrespect other users, your account will be suspended.

7:34 AM

@Sklivvz Right. And you are constantly blankety-blank.

@Borror0 I feel like my being called inflammatory is a personal attack on me. Can I report this somewhere?

Just as a reference, comments are deleted on all SE-sites when they become noise rather than a way to enhance the answer. While the persons who were having the discussion (nearly always) disagree with that decision, they forget that the questions will be read by potentially thousands after them. Having heated discussions are not a good way of advertising our sites. If you want to discuss, take it to Meta or come to chat, but don't pollute the site

@Billare You can't really equivocate that; he's talking about your actions, not you personally.

Ivo Flipse, you were there in the comment section we are referencing.

Was I being non-trivial there?

Yeah, I'm sure the aborigines totally forgave those criminal settlers for hunting them like animals, Paul.

Was that the question about Muslims?

7:36 AM

You were speculating on the usefulness of the question's response. I was doing my best to helpful by explaining the statistical reasoning behind why such a question was important.

(I know people joke about Australia like that, but the reality of Australia's settlement is extremely ugly and worse than the US's horror stories)

It was expressly on-topic towards the question.

Well, California could use the channel islands without having to genocide anyone....

@Jason Plank Fine; would it help if I said Sklivvz's actions throughout this entire beta were blankety-blank?

@SophieMonster I know. Now New Zealand, there is a place I will visit.

7:37 AM

@Billare That would be much more objective, I think

@Billare Billare you are 1 click away from a kick

Almost any comment that doesn't lead to an edit in the answer is at some point noise and you'll have to agree to disagree

@Sklivvz Feel free to exercise your authoritah; you are a moderator.

Cook's journals talk about him firing a cannon at some kiwi cannibals that were displaying a gnawed-on human arm.

what do you mean by blankety-blank?

7:38 AM

I don't know enough about New Zealand to have a good point of comparison

THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA

Whoa, sorry, channeling Asimov for a moment, there.

@SophieMonster It is full of Kiwi's, they are funny.

@Kortuk they certainly speak funny :-)

yeah. and take jokes very very well

I've met only one kiwi, at TAM, and he was nice and had a great accent

either way, my problem with the Muslim question was with the fact that it polarizes a group of our users and wrongfully assumes causation in statistics

7:39 AM

Well if you go to NZ don't miss Milford Sound and Rangitoto.

why is my post not going through to chat?

it did then

that was weird.

@SophieMonster I have a number of Kiwi friends, they are good guys. They all own velcro boots for some reason, I hope to one day figure that out.

Chat broke for me, for a moment.

All better now.

7:40 AM

@SophieMonster It does that.

I didn't look at the guy's feet that I met. He was hitting on my girlfriend, so I mostly talked to him while he offered to buy me a soda and hit on me, too.

@SophieMonster Sounds like the Kiwis I know.

lol

We appear to have killed chat with the kiwis

meta's back; perhaps that's what killed chat

Makes sense. Meta is for murder.

7:52 AM

@SophieMonster Kiwis are a great subject.

Maybe kiwis are the illuminati

or they're aliens

or both

Worse. They're Sklivvz

But were the Moa really 10 foot chickens. And did they have KFM?

the maori are really moa

I am not well enough informed to answer that question

7:55 AM

That might make a good question...

and, afaik, you may be the illuminati, too

don't try to illuminate me.

I know tai chi

Win

@Borror0 sklivvz <- proudly a meme since mar 2011