« first day (862 days earlier)   

12:01 AM
good morning @jmac
I am not really awake @Matt.
It is just a figment of your imagination.
I am forwarding all my pings to @enderland, as he is now in charge.
12:27 AM
Estoy back
@MikeVanTrufflebutt ¿qué?
Yeah, I am feeling punchy today.
Hey, who keeps downvoting good posts?
I mean, I upvote the ones that don't deserve it, but what the heck, man?
I can't speak for everyone, but I follow the upvote good, downvote bad rule...
Would be nice for folks to comment on why the downvote.
Maybe that's a meta question for the API. Why allow anonymous downvoting? Why not require comments for each downvote.
FYI @Mike, that won't go well for you.
12:34 AM
What are they going to do, take away my reputation?
@MikeVanTrufflebutt sometimes the comment I would have added is already mentioned
"User questioning anonymous downvoting was downvoted into the negative and kicked off the site!"
@MikeVanTrufflebutt oh man, it has been asked so many times
Ok. I'll go mining
@MikeVanTrufflebutt it usually turns into a rant and doesn't come off thoughtfully
12:35 AM
try MSO or MSE
Thanks, gents.
And I'll keep upvoting the good questions in the negative.
But definately not anonymously.
First, I havent voted on the questions you are talking about (I think)
but in general I don't comment when I downvote
oh, which question are you talking about?
Sounds like a missed opportunity to counsel a new person...
Q: Encouraging people to explain downvotes

ChrisFI used to get "upset" (though that is too strong a term) when I got downvoted without comment. If my answer isn't good enough then I'd like to know why. Not only does it improve the answer for the OP but it improves my knowledge too. Where the down-vote has been explained I've found it useful & ...

12:37 AM
yeah that one!
@MonicaCellio If that's the case, why not put it on hold as well?
@MikeVanTrufflebutt I normally upvote someone's comment explaining the matter
@MikeVanTrufflebutt only questions can go on hold, answers can't
@MikeVanTrufflebutt "require comment on DV" has been requested bunches of times on MSE; I linked to the one many of them are closed as dupes of. I've read this in the past but not just now so don't remember exactly what's in there.
12:38 AM
I do like to make the site better and help out struggling users, but I don't need the lash back
@IanHolstead gotcha
One problem is that if you require comments people will just type gibberish to satisfy the interface. Another is the anonymity/retaliation concern.
@MonicaCellio exactly
Personally I try to leave helpful comments any time I think I can help people. Those comments don't necessarily accompany votes.
@MonicaCellio +1, except its normally xor for me
*exclusive or: one or the other
12:40 AM
But sometimes I'd just be saying the same thing I've said to a particular user ten times this week already, and (a) it hasn't worked so far and (b) he'll feel I'm nagging, so in that case I might just vote and move on. I should be able to do that.
Downvoting is an important function, one that doesn't happen enough sometimes, and I don't want to artificially constrain it more than it's already constrained.
I want people to use votes -- in both directions -- responsibly, and I hope most of us do that most of the time.
I remember about a year ago I asked a question about identified a specific product. The company downvoted me down to under 600 Rep on S/O.
But teh community rallied and upvoted it more than it got downvoted.
But since votes are anonymous we can't regulate that, and sometimes good posts get downvoted or bad ones upvoted for reasons that are not at all clear.
@MikeVanTrufflebutt sounds like it worked itself out :D
The other thing I think is important is not to take downvotes personally
@MattGiltaji Yes, indeed!
12:43 AM
@IanHolstead good point, I have downvoted questions that were in bad shape, then changed it to an upvote after some edits fixed it
its about the content, not the user
Also they pointed out in one of the questions (it might be the one Monica posted) that one upvote on an answer = 5 downvotes in terms of rep
@MattGiltaji exactly. Also, even if your content is good, people might disagree or just feel like throwing around votes. It happens.
@Mike, to give the really really really short version, downvotes are an easy way to identify crap we don't want. The more hoops you make people jump through to do that, the more time it takes to identify crap, and less crap ends up getting identified which is bad for site quality.
@jmac I get it, we dont' like crap. Sounds good. One person's crap is another's fertilizer? or something.
@MikeVanTrufflebutt that's why the votes are looked at in the aggregate. A single downvote against multiple upvotes doesn't do much, and vice versa
That's right.
Thanks for pointing it out!
12:47 AM
@MikeVanTrufflebutt That's why voting is easy, and we encourage people to vote early and often -- it shouldn't be what one person thinks, but what the community thinks as decided by multiple votes.
@jmac I'm like this gamified Q/A site. Its my new WoW and Eve combined.
@MikeVanTrufflebutt Hopefully you aren't just sticking around for the gamification, but because you want to help create an awesome resource of high quality Q&A. If the gamification helps you achieve that, we are of course ecstatic, but it's usually better if you believe in the goal behind the gamification too.
@jmac I hope my posts are of a high enough quality that your statement is rhetorical.
And, I've been on S/O for a while.
At the end of the day, almost all design decisions are made because they help us end up with better (higher quality, more useful) questions and answers for future visitors. The people who participate in the site actively are not that many compared to the people who come to our site from search engines.
@jmac I can testify to that. Both my ops and dev organizations have your site up on 1/2 of their screens all day long.
12:53 AM
When I got hired I asked most of my friends if they knew of the site. Half knew it, half didn't, and of the half that did, only a handful actually had an account.
"Why would I make an account? I only use you guys because you always show up high on google."
@jmac I've applied for a couple of development positions that specifically asked for a S/O rep score.
That and Ohlo for open-source developers
I was in a tech meetup. Someone asked for resources that they could use to learn how to be a better developer... universal response was to go to SO.
When I joined SE @Mike, some folks assumed I was a developer because I had 3k rep on SO. Couldn't be further from the truth! I think that rep is a great thing to have, but I don't think the presence of a score means you're a good developer, or that the lack of it means you're bad. More of a signaling thing.
I went to a Denny's and S/O was listed under "Tasty Bits" on the menu.
1:36 AM
Yeah! Free rep for editing!
1 hour later…
2:59 AM
I'm curious what people would think if they knew of Workplace and I applied for a job related to development. "Oh yeah I'm one of the top rep users on Workplace!"

I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing :P
A: Dealing with frustrated outbursts from colleague in hall

user1585345Following Telastyn's answer, we have to buy croissants for the whole team each time we break the build. This obviously has the double effect of making us more careful and more relaxed. Until you can prove otherwise, assume your colleague has Tourette's syndrome and encourage him to seak treatmen...

why do 3 people think this is worth upvoting? lol
Q: Automatically generate comment with link to a "what does downvoting mean?" post when a user with <50 rep has a question downvoted

enderlandProblem People post a bad question, for any of the following reasons: Not researched Off topic Poorly written/formatted No sign of any attempt to solve problem Classic help vampire question etc This gets downvoted and often without comments. It's exhausting and tiring work to constantly co...

you might enjoy that
@enderland What do you not like about the -2 post?
@MikeVanTrufflebutt I guess I find it a bit presumptuous and absolutely ridiculous someone would immediately suggest confronting a coworker and basically say "you should seek treatment for tourettes" as a first course of response
I'm pretty sure that in most reasonable workplaces doing this basically will get you in significant trouble with all but the most unreasonable managers
and probably result in a career limiting move quality of action
Wow, I read that response. What a dick! LOL
Not you, the response.
I thought you were talking about the original question.
3:14 AM
no, that answer
Yeah, that answer was a troll.
technically it IS an answer, though
banninate him, oh moddie one.
I think I shall change my name again tomorr.
Sallie McWritesalot
someone figured out who I am and messaged me in LInked in about one of my answers.
time to get on the down-low for a while.
"Trollie Mac Schutyomout
3:16 AM
in a good way?
Yeah, it was like "hey dude, thanks for the help. But, did you know you're kind of exposed?"
@enderland What's a good S/O site for someone new to development to go to?
Already has a degree, just not in CompSci
Chose the easy path.. LOL
@MikeVanTrufflebutt S/O isn't really good for a brand new beginner
I'd think tutorials or some exposure is better
Tell me about it.
I was going to say JavaRanch, but OO programming isn't a beginner thang.
Isn't there some coder.com site or some such nonsense for newbs?
I think there are tons of htem out there
I"ll find one.
The person is female, and we could always use good female coders.
There we go.
3:38 AM
Seems pretty legit
My response was better. Nerny nerny nerny!
3 hours later…
6:23 AM
> Meta effect is actively detrimental to welcoming new users to Meta. Because of that, and because the purpose of Meta is to freely discuss issues related to Stack Overflow, I propose that we institute a system-imposed voting freeze...
A double standard is the application of different sets of principles for similar situations, or by two different people in the same situation. A double standard may take the form of an instance in which certain concepts (often, for example, a word, phrase, social norm, or rule) are perceived as acceptable to be applied by one group of people, but are considered unacceptable—taboo—when applied by another group. The concept of a double standard has long been applied (as early as 1872) to the fact that different moral structures are often applied to men and women in society. A double standard can...
6 hours later…
12:44 PM
Is there a record of deleted comments anywhere?
Not for me personally, but I think a comment I really liked got deleted as part of a larger thread deletion.
Thought I bookmarked it too! Wtf!
1:27 PM
I think only mods can see deleted comments... Comments are temporary post it notes, and such
Q: UI / UX Design Services Online Business (Narrowing my Niche)

asdfghI hope I'm writing this type of question in the right StackExchange place, but if I'm wrong, I will delete it immediately. Sorry for that. But if I get in the right place, well then I got this question. I'm looking of starting my Online Service Business for working for clients / people, who nee...

do you guys think there is a core question there?
@MattGiltaji this
@enderland I think it's more of a freelancing question, but I'm not sure.
@MattGiltaji I actually found it because someone highlighted it in chat.
I'm not sure if we can give advice on should I do x or y in a business plan. But if we can edit it to more of a how/what should my thought process be type of question, that would be useful
Or we could migrate to freelancing, if it would fit there
1:45 PM
@enderland I am wondering if this should go to startups.stackexchange.com
2:38 PM
@DavidSegonds hmmm. there are no moderators for that site to even ask, lol
@DavidSegonds Great suggestion!
2 hours later…
4:24 PM
Hi, jobfolk. I'm reading a meta.SE discussion that mentions some canonical list questions maintained on Workplace.SE. Can anyone give me some pointers to those?
I've come across two linked in the body of this question on your meta site, but I'm specifically interested in finding examples of well-maintained lists of external resources.
@AirThomas I'm not sure that we would maintain a list of external resources
the Q&A format doesn't really lend itself to that
@MattGiltaji I agree. I'm trying to convince a user of that point on another site, and want to see first if there are any examples of a site doing it successfully.
this is the closest thing I can think of that is a list of resources, but they are queries on the data explorer, not really links to external resources
Q: Beta Sites Data is Now Accessible Through the Data Explorer

jmac NEWS FLASH: After 6-8 weeks of waiting, you can now write queries for beta sites using the data explorer The data explorer uses TSQL which seems to be similar to regular SQL with a few variations. You can browse existing queries and yoink stuff from them as well. For instance, taking this q...

4:50 PM
Thanks @Matt - appreciate the help.
5:05 PM
@enderland oh look -- this was deleted from the review queue. Anybody who thinks review queues don't produce results, think again.
5:36 PM
it just says "Deleted" with no attribution... that's weird
6:02 PM
@enderland that's because some "recommend deletion" votes from the queue factored in. It would be weird to see "deleted by X, Y, and Z" if Y and Z don't have enough rep to delete -- but those "recommend" actions from the queue can still result in deletion. So in that case they don't list names.
@MonicaCellio I'd think it'd show "community" then
@enderland oh, good point.

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