/dev/chat

Markus

12:08 AM

@Gilles Sweet!

Braiam

12:30 AM

@cuonglm reference to xkcd.com/1354

specifically the title of the image

mikeserv

Marbles found - clip from Hook

►

mikeserv

3:18 AM

@MichaelMrozek - I guess you're just too self-important to justify your statements/actions, yes?

You can just make blanket statements and that is that, I suppose? You can accuse who you like for what you like and there is no requirement that you provide evidence, huh?

Faheem Mitha

4:40 PM

Curious:

running: strings /bin/bash | grep vi-

gives a bunch of stuff. Why are there strings starting with vi- in the bash executable?

Gilles

4:52 PM

@FaheemMitha because bash has a vi command line editing mode

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles oh, does it? I didn't know that.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha man bash |less +/vi-

Faheem Mitha

I thought all the GNU things did the emacs keystrokes automatically.

@Gilles ok

Gilles

@FaheemMitha this is not a requirement to become a GNU project

Even Emacs comes with a mode for vi-like bindings

Faheem Mitha

Is this a readline thing?

@Gilles No, I just meant that they do the emacs thing by default. Or they seem to, anyway.

Hi @Seth

Hi @Caleb

Seth

4:54 PM

Hi @FaheemMitha!

Faheem Mitha

@Seth how's life in Ubuntu-land?

Is there anyone here running that Cyanogen thing?

Seth

@FaheemMitha Great :D

@FaheemMitha Cyanogen thing?

Faheem Mitha

@Seth yes, the mobile OS thing. Did I spell it wrong?

Seth

Oh CyanogenMod?

I used to use it.

But then I got a new phone that couldn't be boot-loader unlocked.. worst mistake of my tech life D:

Faheem Mitha

@Seth yes, I guess that is the correct name.

Seth

4:57 PM

Cyanogen is the company, CyanogenMod is the OS I believe.

Faheem Mitha

@Seth I'm unclear what the signifiicance ofa unlockable boot-loader is.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha yes

Faheem Mitha

@Seth ok. Never used it, fuzzy on the name.

Seth

So yeah, I used to use it. Know people that use it. Loved it.

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles you are?

Gilles

4:58 PM

@FaheemMitha means you can install a different OS

Seth

Hi Gilles

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Oh. And if it is not unlockable you can't? Bummer.

Do they tell you when you buy it?

Gilles

A lockedbootloader only accepts OS images signed by the vendor

@FaheemMitha no

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Well, that's just wicked.

@Gilles Eww, DRM.

Gilles

(with a few exceptions like Google's demonstration phones or Fairphone. But not on a general consumer device.)

Faheem Mitha

4:59 PM

Well, thanks for the info. I guess I could look it up, but I'm lazy.

Seth

Generally you buy the device with unlocking it in mind.

Motorola allows unlocking the bootloader on most of their devices. I just happen to own the only exception :P

(I hate you Verizon!)

@FaheemMitha What phone do you have?

Faheem Mitha

@Seth Samsung 3600 I think.

gsmarena.com/samsung_s3600-2539.php

Yes, that's it.

I'm not really a big gadget person.

Unfortunately, flip phones appaar to be next to impossible to get in India currently.

I'm not really what people have against them. I like them.

Seth

Well CyanogenMod is an Android ROM so it almost definitely won't run on that particular device, if that is what you were wondering :)

Faheem Mitha

I wonder what OS my phone runs. Probably not much of one.

@Seth Oh, I'm sure it won't.

If you mean the Samsung 3600.

I bought it for around $60/70 dollars around 5 years ago. Still working, but showing its age. Will probably need to buy a new one at some point. Sigh.

Never quite figured out why people need fancy phones for. That's what your computer is for.

Seth

@FaheemMitha It's Java based.

Faheem Mitha

5:05 PM

@Seth Oh. Does that tell me what the OS is?

Seth

No, because there isn't any definable "OS" in most feature phones. They're just almost all Java based :P

Faheem Mitha

@Seth There must be some underlying OS, surely?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha that's what I used to think, but now I see that “phone” is just a bad name. It's a PDA. It's a computer that you carry in your pocket.

Seth

I mean there's an OS, but it usually isn't named and it usually only runs on one set of similar devices.

Faheem Mitha

Or does the firmware just boot up a JVM?

@Gilles you're a convert to carryable computers?

Gilles

5:07 PM

@FaheemMitha no, that's Android...

Faheem Mitha

I've only had a mobile for a few years anyway. I resisted it for a long time.

Seth

At least in the US feature phones are pretty hard to get.

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles What's an Android? firmware booting a JVM?

@Seth what's a feature phone?

Seth

@FaheemMitha A phone that isn't a smartphone.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha Yes. I use it to look up the time of the next bus, to read the news while commuting, to see maps when traveling, to read and reply to email, and many other things

Seth

5:09 PM

Feature phone

A feature phone is a class of mobile phone; the term is typically used as a retronym to describe low-end mobile phones which are limited in capabilities in contrast to a modern smartphone. Feature phones typically provide voice calling and text messaging functionality, in addition to basic multimedia and internet capabilities, and other services offered by the user's wireless service provider. In an effort to provide parity with smartphones, modern feature phones have also incorporated support for 3G connectivity, touchscreens, and access to popular social networking services. However, thei...

Faheem Mitha

@Seth Ok, thanks.

Seth

vs

Smartphone

A smartphone (or smart phone) is a mobile phone with an advanced mobile operating system. Smartphones typically combine the features of a cell phone with those of other popular mobile devices, such as personal digital assistant, media player and GPS navigation unit. Most smartphones have a touchscreen user interface and can run third-party apps, and are camera phones. 2012 and later smartphones add high speed mobile broadband 4G LTE internet web browsing, motion sensors and mobile payment mechanisms. In 2014, sales of smartphones worldwide topped 1.2 billion, which is up 28% from 2013. ==...

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles ok. And you can cope with those pesky little keyboards?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha Basic phone = phone and pretty much nothing else (maybe a camera and a radio). Feature phone = has some extra applications (e.g. web browser, email reader, ...) but no or few third-party applications. Smartphone = you can install third-party applications and even make your own without having to sign an NDA.

@FaheemMitha touchscreen

Faheem Mitha

Apparently smart phones are now somewhat more powerful than desktop computers of 10 years ago, or so.

@Gilles Ok, thanks.

Gilles

5:11 PM

@FaheemMitha about the same

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles and your fingers can cope? I imagine you do a lot of typing.

@Gilles ok

Gilles

@FaheemMitha I don't do a lot of typing on the phone

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles oh, ok.

Seth

I usually swype when I need to (example incoming)

Gilles

it's more suited to passive uses

Faheem Mitha

5:12 PM

Ok. I dunno, I spend enough time with my computer. I don't really need to carry one with me.

Seth

Faheem Mitha

But people seem really fixated on their phones here. They carry them with them everywhere.

Seth

(that's a Windows Phone, but you get the idea)

Faheem Mitha

@Seth oh, that works well?

Seth

@FaheemMitha Quite well, yes.

Sometimes it works too well :P

Faheem Mitha

5:13 PM

@Seth Ok

@Seth too well?

@Gilles how do you do backups for your phone to Linux? I thought of asking this on site, but didn't.

Seth

@FaheemMitha You can get 3rd party keyboards on Android. Some of them are built a little too well, if the word isn't in the dictionary it tries to replace it with one that is (thinking to just typed it terribly). As you can imagine that doesn't work too well in the tech world, will all of its abbreviations and such.

Faheem Mitha

@Seth Oh, spellcheck? Hmm, yes, that could be annoying I imagine.

I guess they might allow custom lists of words.

Seth

they do, but IMO it is a big pain to add everything to your custom dictionary so I just use a keyboard that isn't quite that smart.

(it really isn't that hard, but I'm just lazy)

Faheem Mitha

@Seth ok

So these smart phone things are worth it then?

Seth

well.. that depends.

Faheem Mitha

5:17 PM

One thing I heard is that smart phones are much more power hungry. my phone doesn't use much power at all.

Seth

That they are.

Faheem Mitha

Are flip phones hard to find in the West as well, these days? They used to be quite popular.

Seth

You can minimize it, but with a 4.5 inch screen battery life just isn't the same.

Faheem Mitha

Here they are next to impossible.

Seth

@FaheemMitha Quite hard, but you can get them.

Faheem Mitha

5:18 PM

@Seth ok

Seth

I use a smartphone because I like the fact that I can use it for other things when I want or need to.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha Mostly, I don't… I don't store data on my phone except stuff that I copied from somewhere else

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles I see. Not even phone numbers?

@Seth ok

Seth

I know people that are on their phones all day all the time. I think that is rude and cheap, plus I cannot afford the data plan the requires.

@FaheemMitha Those are synced through your Google Account on Android.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha they're synchronized with some server (Google for the personal ones and Exchange for the professional ones). That's enough for me.

Faheem Mitha

5:22 PM

@Seth Oh. Synced with what?

@Gilles Oh. Synced as in backed up, perhaps?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha yes, in the sense that if I lose the phone, the data is still on the server

Seth

@FaheemMitha With your Google account.

Faheem Mitha

@Gilles Yes, I see.

@Seth Which means you have to have one. :-(

Seth

If I was going to get a feature phone though this is the one I would probably get.

@FaheemMitha No, you don't have to, but it is convenient.

Faheem Mitha

@Seth Well, for the backup feature.

@Seth Yuck, MS.

Seth

5:24 PM

It is hard to install apps without one, but if you don't need/want apps then you don't need a Google account.

@FaheemMitha Well yeah, MS bought Nokia.. Made me sad.

Faheem Mitha

@Seth Oh, I didn't know that.

@Seth well, there's that backing up thing.

Still wondering what people have against flip phones. Is making them hard, perhaps?

Or are there some reliability problems?

Seth

@FaheemMitha Ah. You can use other accounts. Gilles mentioned Exchange server for one (that's usually a corporate thing though)

@FaheemMitha I think they just went out of style..

Faheem Mitha

@Seth Oh, Ok. Can you customize where it is backed up to?

@Seth fashion sucks.

Seth

@FaheemMitha tracfone.com/phones.jsp

@FaheemMitha To a certain extent. If it's an online account that is usually pretty easy and I'm sure you can get an app that would allow more options (although getting an app usually requires a Google account)

Faheem Mitha

@Seth ok

@Seth so, do you find yourself using your phone for things other than phone calls on a regular basis?

Seth

5:41 PM

@FaheemMitha not especially. Read a book or play the occasional game when stuck in a waiting room (for example), or if there's WiFi I can check in on SE, look up something I was thinking about, etc. But outside of that, not really.

I do use it as a GPS sometimes though. Really handy that way.

Faheem Mitha

@Seth I figure an ebook reader could be handy. Don't have one.

Seth

And of course the nicer camera is a bonus, although it isn't a replacement for a real camera.

Faheem Mitha

And a phone isn't really a substitute for that. Too small.

@Seth Could be handy, yes. Is a smart phone as good as a dedicated device? Like those Garmins?

It looks like I was trying to use a shell script to add a header and a footer to a bunch of files. I wonder what possessed me.

Hmm, might be a little exercise to do with CL.

Seth

@FaheemMitha One of my family members has on. They're ok, but I prefer real books when I can. They come in really handy when you are out and about and can't carry a full size book with you.

Faheem Mitha

@Seth I imagine the big plus is a whole library in a single book shaped device.

But yes, real books are better.

Seth

5:46 PM

@FaheemMitha That depends. If you can afford a data plan than the answer is definitely yes. If you can't then there are some tradeoffs. All in all though I think it is worth it, especially if a GPS isn't something you need everyday.

Faheem Mitha

People say they are very comfortable to read with, though.

Seth

@FaheemMitha Like I said, I find I really prefer a real book. They definitely aren't bad however.

Faheem Mitha

@Seth Ok. You need an internet plan? The Garmins connect to satellites. Why can't your phone?

@Seth I need to use a GPS while driving. Especially at night. Well, I used to. When I was driving.

Seth

@FaheemMitha No you don't need an internet connection, but it helps because then you don't have to reply on offline maps. Most phones do need an internet connection to work as a GPS because they don't have offline map files (they can all connect to satellites, but that isn't enough). Nokia has written an app for Android and Windows Phone that lets you download those maps though so you don't need an internet connection anymore.

Faheem Mitha

@Seth Oh, I see. Right, the Garmins have stored maps.

So the net connection is used for downloading maps on the fly?

Seth

5:53 PM

Yup.

Thankfully there are a few apps that let you download the maps and store them on your phone so that isn't necessary anymore.

Faheem Mitha

@Seth Ok. That does sound useful. Not so keen on those Garmin things. And they're expensive.

Seth

@FaheemMitha The newer ones are cheaper and come with lifetime map updates, but if you are already going to buy a phone it is cheaper to combine the two

Faheem Mitha

@Seth agreed. Though at this point such concerns are largely theoretical. But thanks for all the interesting information.

Seth

np!

Faheem Mitha

One thing I do find puzzling is how much people are willing to pay for smart phones. I routinely run into people here who have paid upward of Rs 20k for their phone. Which is a small fortune for many people in India.

Braiam

10:56 PM

@FaheemMitha because, they want to differentiate themself from that "many people"

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Perhaps. I haven't done a poll.