Language Overflow - 2017-03-31

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12:06 AM

@Alex89 I've had a little edit of your deleted question. I agree with @user178049 that you should undelete your helpful and correct answer ... :)

Yes @Araucaria The two answers are just weird.

@Alex89 If you want to get the Discipline badge, delete your answer when there's another more helpful answer. :-)

5 hours later…

5:32 AM

0

Q: Questions about pronunciation which are NOT entirely answerable with a dictionary

Earlier today, I saw a question about phonetics: When do I REALLY need to pronounce an s as a z? Yeah, I know the rule that after a voiced consonant, the plural or 3rd person S should be realized as a Z. But I wouldn't trust that rule as far as I could throw it, because I constantly hear...

discussion close-reasons

Anonymous

@Araucaria I'm a bit behind right now. I've just undeleted Alex89's answer, and I want to finish writing my post for your question, but first I wanted to get that meta post out of the way.

Anonymous

I feel like there's a pattern on ELL of closing good questions about pronunciation, and I wanted to write about it and try to put a stop to it.

Anonymous

@M.A.R. Really, petaloso? I missed fun WOTDs!

Anonymous

petaloso: How an eight-year-old boy invented a new word

3

petalful

Anonymous

5:41 AM

Now, my meta post intentionally avoids answering the question of whether there are phonetic details like devoicing going on in Rusty's question. But I think that needs to be addressed in an answer. Is Rusty simply mishearing things, or is there something going on that needs to be explained? That information shouldn't be in a close reason, it should be in an answer!

"petaloso" sound much more dolce than petalful..

Anonymous

So I upvoted Rusty's question.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle Petaloso sounds so beautiful.

@snailplane Si!

"There is, by the way, a direct equivalent in English: "petalous" has been a word since at least the early 18th century."

Anonymous

5:48 AM

Ooh.

Anonymous

That's not a bad-sounding word.

Indeed.

"Don't get all petalous with me, lad"

I find it interesting that they say "invented" a new word and not "discovered" a new word.

Anonymous

A matter of perspective, I suppose?

Anonymous

5:51 AM

Certainly the potential for the combination of those two elements was there, waiting to be discovered.

Anonymous

But I suppose you could say the same of many things that we call inventions.

You can call it "discovery" our you can call it "invention", maybe out of hospetality

:D

One may discover an invention, but not invent a discovery?

The invention of the word was discovered by an 8 year old.

6:24 AM

A lot of discovery of inventions must have been happening around 1820.

Combining discoveries can be called an invention or innovative. Combining inventions is called engineering.

Since language is invented the 8 year old engineered a new word.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle Well done :-)

6:43 AM

I would be okay with "created" a new word.

6:57 AM

\o all

Anonymous

Good morningfternoon, @M.A.R.!

Oh no

Tomorrow is April 1st, one of the funnest days you can be on an SE site

And I probably will be absent

!!flip

o/

\o

@M.A.R. Unicorns, unicorns, unicorns!

We want unicorns. :-)

7:11 AM

I'm more and more inclined to think this Vodka Bear person on meta is deliberately trying to be provocative.

Hello. Good morning to everyone. Nice to meet Damkerng T., M.A.R. and snailplane.

@DamkerngT. On the plus side, I think the April fool prank will be live in a few hours?

@Alex89 Good morning

@Alex89 Good morning!

@M.A.R. Probably our OZ friends will have it first, as usual.

Provokative . . . Hmm, for some reason I wanna spell it as 'provokative'

It's still 10 hours away from me.

7:14 AM

BBL breakfast

(which is a good thing, 'cause there are some things I have to finish before April.)

@M.A.R. Enjoy!

I see, Colleen V has undeleted my answer. Thanks. I just wanted Disciplined badge, and I got it yesterday. I think I won't delete my answers anymore.

But I feel a bit sorry about my answer about pronunciation of S as [z]... I see people answering about phonetic diagrams. Maybe I didn't understand the question very well. Nevertheless, I wanted to help.

7:29 AM

Back

wb

@Alex89 BTW, deleting your valid answers can come off as vandalism

OK, clear.

BTW = by the way

Yes

Oh

I wanted to ask about Tag Editor

How to get it?

and what is wiki edit

7:37 AM

ell.stackexchange.com/tags

See those? Click on each of them

ell.stackexchange.com/tags/word-usage/info

If you successfully edit that tag info, you get a badge

But it's a bit complicated

Because you shouldn't plagiarize from other sources

Oh, it's interesting. Thanks a lot. Maybe I'll try; I'll think about it. And don't worry, at my site, we learned to write unique answers, because we have severe penalties for plagiarism.

You shouldn't just write up a wiki, but preferably how to use the tag

So it's really hard, and intimidates even me

Which is echoed in how you can review suggested edits with 2,000 rep, but tag wiki edits with 5,000 rep

And your edits take effect immediately only after 20,000 rep

Anonymous

8:23 AM

@Alex89 Actually, I was the one who undeleted it.

Anonymous

But the moderator team agreed that undeleting it was a good thing to do.

Anonymous

So in a sense it was the whole team that undeleted it :-)

8:37 AM

-3

Q: Conditional sentences

Are these sentences correct? She won't go unless Rob goes because she can't drive. They'd phone us as soon as their plane lands. Don't eat anything now! Wait until dinner's ready. We won't get there on time if you don't leave work early. I have an urgent message. Please call me as soon as you ge...

sentence-construction sentence-structure whether-if

Oh wow

@snailplane oh, thanks a lot

And why did the question about conditional sentences get so many downvotes? Is it too simple? I think it may be simple for professionals/specialists... but aren't there a lot of people for whom such questions may be useful. E. g. absolute beginners.

Anonymous

8:57 AM

It is not too simple.

Anonymous

"Too simple" isn't a reason to close a question on ELL.

Anonymous

It's a proofreading question, and we've decided that these questions are not appropriate for the site.

Anonymous

That said, in cases like this it would be appropriate to Vote To Close without downvoting.

@Alex89 There are a billion sentences to analyze there, and that's why it's going to be useful to no one

9:39 AM

Hmm, "go figure" is fixed. What would be the third person inflectional form?

Goes figures?

Go figures?

Goes figure?

@user178049 Writing is an uncountable noun in phrases in academic writing, in informal writing, etc., although you can say in an academic writing style, etc.

@M.A.R. It's a fixed expression. Have you looked it up in a dictionary?

@M.A.R. Well, I just realized you're aware of the fact it's fixed. It's more like an imperative statement to my ear: "Go figure (it/this out (if you can, because I can't))!" – sort of like that.

Anonymous

9:54 AM

!!kappamaki

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh no! Is ellbot MIA?

@snailplane Whoa, probably since yesterday!

Strange that it looked like it was still working, but it didn't receive any new chat messages anymore.

Good morning!

10:12 AM

\o

@userr2684291 You mean it can't become third person singular?

@M.A.R. Not normally, no.

@userr2684291 Ohh, thanks. I'll fix that :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Good afternoon! :-)

It's in the evening already, but that's okay! :-)

@Snail would it make a good question?

Anonymous

10:26 AM

@userr2684291 Yeah. I don't know how to analyze it, but then, being an idiom makes it at least a bit analysis-resistant.

Anonymous

@M.A.R. Which one? "Good afternoon!"? 'Cause I tried asking that before, but I never got a satisfactory answer.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I actually thought it would be funny to pick a time of day that wasn't right for either of us.

Oh, I see! :D

Anonymous

I tried morningfternoon earlier with @M.A.R., so I had to switch it up.

Anonymous

Gotta stay one step ahead in this business.

Anonymous

10:27 AM

Stack Overflow Introduces Dance Dance Authentication

2

@snailplane Third person singular of "go figure"

Someone in the SU chat said "go figure" . . . I wanted to reply humorously goes figure but I was stumped

> Computer security is always evolving. Passwords are “what you know.” Smart cards are “what you have.” We decided to ask “how you do you.”

o.o

@snailplane So that's the April fool prank, huh

I was expecting something . . . more entertaining

10:43 AM

@M.A.R. That's the prank.

(Bro.)

Bruh

Anonymous

10:59 AM

@M.A.R. Well, you could certainly ask. But there isn't one.

Anonymous

You could make it a little more exciting by asking about the grammar that makes up the phrase.

Anonymous

Sven Yargs nails it as usual:

Anonymous

2

A: Meaning of "go figure" and its origin?

Dictionary discussions of 'go figure' John Ayto, Oxford Dictionary of English Idioms, third edition (2009) identifies the phrase go figure as "North American informal": go figure! work it out for yourself (used to suggest that the conclusion to be drawn about something is obvious). North Ame...

11:37 AM

@Snail -- Already asked

3

Q: Go Figure – Are They Infinitives?

They heat the water to make the tea hot, then they put ice in it to make it cold, then they put lemon in it to make it sour, and then they put sugar in it to make it sweet. Go figure. The sentence is from the dictionary. I vaguely understand the meaning which can be expressed differently dep...

idioms infinitives

user image

Can we use 7 nosologies to refer to "7 diseases"?

Or is it absolutely unacceptable?

the link to the PDF

I advised a fellow translator to write nosological entities instead

@CowperKettle What dictionary lists that meaning?

12:00 PM

@CowperKettle Did you mean to say etiology?

no, not etiology

I wonder if we can say "Our employees are capable of projecting expertise from one field into another"

Or it's better to say transfer

Like, you gain expertise in managing one branch of the company, and then use kind of "adapt" this expertise to managing a different branch.

I wonder that is the proper businessese term for this

hmm.. carry over?

@CowperKettle Nah. You want apply or appropriate.

Transfer works as well.

But I'd go with apply.

@CowperKettle Oh, that's a good one as well.

I don't know how I clicked on it but missed it...

Ah! Thank you!

Reopen votes needed!

2

Q: Difference between will and shall

What is the difference between will and shall in modern spoken English? For example I have the following sentences: He will arrive on Tuesday. He shall arrive on Tuesday. Are there any rules specifying usage of will and shall? Reopen note: I looked at this question here: "Shall"...

meaning word-usage modal-verbs

We shall overvote, we shall overvote, we shall overvote this question today.

12:25 PM

@Araucaria Already reopened

Hi

12:36 PM

@M.A.R. Wasn't 5 min ago! Cool. + 1, btw.

On your answer on the other Q, that is!

@Araucaria Which?

I only got one upvote on another irrelevant question, but thanks

12:55 PM

2

A: Can anybody explain these numbers for me, please?

It's implying that whenever the industry rose, an unexpected collapse happening in two years is common. Industry rises by 100 %, then Within a two-year time span from the rise, in 21 occasions out of 40, or 53 % of the time, there is a 40 % collapse. In 19 occasions out of 40, or 47 percent of...

@M.A.R. That one. (+1 just for seeing that it is a comprehension question).

Ahh thanks

Although TRomano doesn't like me now

1

A: Is "this is questions" ever grammatical?

As long as the this is perceived as singular and the questions are perceived as plural there's no problem. Consider the following example: There only one thing you need to ask and this is questions.

Answer needs upvotes @Dam ^

1:55 PM

Question needs reopen votes!

2

Q: Can anybody explain these numbers for me, please?

I don't quite understand the things in bold: Of the 40 occasions since 1928 in which an industry rose by at least 100% over any two-year period, a collapse of more than 40% over the subsequent two years occurred 53% of the time — or 21 times, as noted above. Source: http://www.barrons.com/a...

meaning-in-context

@Araucaria Frankly I think it should stay closed. It has an answer that has been accepted, and regardless of us being able to guess at why Haile is confused, they don't actually put any effort in to explain it.

I wasn't happy with the tone of the conversation in the comments, but it was a valid point that the question could use more explanation.

New avatar! Which I can't quite tell if is a sheep or a dog

@M.A.R. It's Charlie one of my dogs. Finally got him to hold still long enough to get a non-blurry picture

Now I want a picture of Charlie with Bigfoot Ben

He's named after Charlie Chaplin because he's in black & white ;)

2:08 PM

@ColleenV I agree that it could - but I think it's very difficult to do ... :)

Hello everyone!

Hello

Nice to meet you

Nice to meet you too

How are you?

Long time no see

2:10 PM

Doing great

@yubraj I'm not the one absent :)

@Araucaria Well if you understand what the question is well enough, just edit it in for them and end the controversy.

Oh Really!

@M.A.R.

I would be happy to cast a reopen vote for it

@ColleenV I would do, but I think that might undermine M.A.R.'s answer. I think that kind of question is difficult to put into words when your parsing equipment is already malfunctioning! :-)

@Araucaria That's great - put it in the question. Haile has made a habit of making us guess, and it's time to stop encouraging that.

2:14 PM

Word of the Day: Cook's D

@ColleenV@M.A.R @. I'm teaching in an English school but having difficulties in speaking English. I can't exactly expresss what I really want to say in my words.

@ColleenV Aaaargh, accidentally edited when I was trying to add a new comment :-)

@ColleenV Hi

@yubraj howdy

I'm fine and you?

2:16 PM

@Araucaria I'm sure we let MAR know if he needs to adjust his answer :)

@yubraj What subject are you teaching?

@userr2684291 Hi...how are you? Thanks for asking me. I'm teaching English upto 6. But as I said before, I'm a bit poor at speaking English.

@DamkerngT. Hi

2

Q: Can anybody explain these numbers for me, please?

I don't quite understand the things in bold: Of the 40 occasions since 1928 in which an industry rose by at least 100% over any two-year period, a collapse of more than 40% over the subsequent two years occurred 53% of the time — or 21 times, as noted above. Source: http://www.barrons.com/a...

meaning-in-context

@ColleenV I need to adjust my answer?

@yubraj Well, what's the problem?

Why do you feel difficulties communicating in English?

@M.A.R. Maybe, if you want. I had to edit the question to get it reopened.

@ColleenV I've done that bit. Fancy a reopen vote?

Anonymous

2:25 PM

Oh, it's open.

@Araucaria But what should I change?

Anonymous

She reopened it before you asked just now.

Anonymous

I was sort of watching the question. I had to trim a few comments.

I understood why the OP was confused

Oh crap

@M.A.R. I think we all did, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask for more effort to be put in.

2:27 PM

8

Q: Is "have to" a modal verb?

I have heard people say that "have to" is a modal verb. Other people have told me it is not. Why exactly is "have to" a modal verb? Or why exactly is it not? I have also heard that it is a preriphrastic modal verb. Is a periphrastic modal verb a modal verb?

meaning modal-verbs syntax

@ColleenV Sure, but a lot of OPs here don't put up enough effort

Anonymous

Yippee, a bounty!

@M.A.R. I don't think you need to change anything!

I can say the same thing by writing but when I speak I can't find the exact word and often make grammetical mistakes while speaking.

So either we shouldn't, or we should enforce more effort on everyone's side

2:28 PM

@snailplane Yes, know anyone with an answer kicking around?

Anonymous

I just might :-)

....

. . .

@yubraj Tongue slips while speaking are really common

I would need confirmation, but I think native speakers make such errors in speaking commonly

@yubraj I'm good. You mean you're teaching English up to sixth grade?

@userr2684291 yes! For examples If I have to scold a student when he desobeys me, how to control him by scolding him?

2:33 PM

@yubraj Do you happen to have a rattan stick nearby?

Pardon please!

Ratten stick means?

@yubraj What kind of disobeys?

@userr2684291 Or a table leg?

Anonymous

Best of both worlds, a rattan table leg.

@snailplane :D

@yubraj It means the student is in big trouble.

2:36 PM

@yubraj Raise an eyebrow and fix him with a stare as you continue what you were doing ...

For examples, frequently making noise, not sitting properly and looking back, fighting with their friends, etc.

@yubraj How can you not sit properly?

@yubraj This all wouldn't've happened if you instilled fear and discipline into them from the very beginning, as I told you.

Not sitting up straight and looking back to the friends who sit sit behind

@userr2684291 Really? But only some students do such things. Even If order them not to do so bit them they do that again.

@yubraj Not everything is lost yet. What you need to do is make an example of someone.

2:45 PM

What you mean by making an example please? @userr2684291

Torture is preferable

@yubraj 1. punish as a warning to others.

Ok...I got it.

@yubraj I think continually berating them doesn't yield any results. Give them a minus, a certain number of which could amount to a bad grade – that is if you're allowed to do that.

WOTD: Roue

3:03 PM

Ok @userr2684291

@M.A.R. Have you googled roue? (:

@userr2684291 Yes

You left out 'roué'. — Mitch 1 hour ago

!!flip/(:

( つ•̀ω•́)つ):

!!flip/):

(∿°○°)∿(:

3:07 PM

BAH, IT'S UNFLIPPABLE

@M.A.R. I get a spinner when I google it.

Huh

Good evening. Could anyone help me with this question: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/124125/…

Which answer should I accept?

@Alex89 Whichever you like

I like Jay's answer but only because I just read it

I wonder how much time do other people wait between asking the question and accepting an answer

an hour, a day, two days, more...

3:11 PM

Thank you @userr2684291 a

@M.A.R. Like this: i.stack.imgur.com/NuVBr.png

@userr2684291 Happy April fools I guess

No. It's French, I think.

!!translate/roue

fr: roue
en: wheel

@M.A.R. I get the same thing if I do a Google search for spinner.

3:16 PM

Well dunno why it doesn't happen for other search terms

But Google Maps also showed a Pacman to some guy from SU's main chat, so pretty sure they have indeed planned a prank

@M.A.R. What do you mean?

@userr2684291 I mean that it's an April fools joke

Maybe

Or more than one prank o.o

3:43 PM

Мужик обнимается с медведем в Губкинском

Just another average day in Russia

5 hours later…

8:38 PM

0

A: Is there a difference in meaning between "FROM the last ten years" and "IN the last ten years"?

In does not seem to me a good choice for either 1 or 2. Though anyone would know what it meant, it does not sound idiomatic to me. However from or of would work in either case.

Sometimes, an answer by a native speaker is quite a surprise.

Send an message OR Send a Message
Which is correct?

a message

Where did you find "an message"?

0

Q: How Do I Send An Message To A Running Yarn Application?

I want to have my application already started on my YARN cluster and allow the users to send additional commands. I am still in the design phase, but I'm confused on the best way about going about this. Is this possible? Could the user send some sort of REST command to the Application Master or R...

I do me just fine. Thank you. And you? :-) — Damkerng T. 1 min ago

:)

8:43 PM

@YOU Oh! :D

@YOU The rule is always the same... if the word starts with a vowel sound, it gets "an".

Hey, a new avatar!

Great Thank you :)

And a very cute one, too!

Indeed. :D Thanks

3 hours later…

11:33 PM

@userr2684291 Boo ...

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Mar '1731

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