Language Overflow

6:39 AM

0

I often hear some people say that "I'm wired differently from other people" or "My brain is differently wired" but I don't understand what "wired" really means. Here are several definitions of the word from OED: Making use of computers to transfer or receive information, especially by means of ...

meaning

More interestingly, when did people start using the phrase?

Soon after the word "robot" became well-known?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Wasn't etymology better off at ELU?

Damkerng T.

Oh, no! They didn't ask that. I was just curious.

I mean the phrase is easy, and I think it's not that difficult to look it up. It could also be fun to write an answer (with pictures!) to the question, but I'm not in the mood of writing answers now.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

9:08 AM

Ban10gams

Damkerng T.

Um... What is it?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's my brother.

Not me.

He's searching for Ben 10 games in another device.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

How did Ben 10 become Ban10?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

He also searched ELU, came over to me, and asked "I searched with the tablet. Look what it brought me!" (He wants to take away the laptop from me)

@DamkerngT. He's only 10, and has been attending English classes for less than a year.

Damkerng T.

:D

I think his English must be very good. :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

9:18 AM

Hmm, not sure, since he's not fluent enough for me to converse with him in English.

Damkerng T.

Oh, this is an interesting question:

1

Q: usage of "including as"

I found this interesting test prep question: The gong, believed to have originated in Western Asia, reached China in the sixth century, where it continues to be used for a wide range of purposes, (__________) a military signal, a rhythmic accompaniment for vocal performance, and a ritual inst...

prepositions adverbial-phrase

I haven't checked, but now I'm curious from what test it was.

Ah, SAT!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

English test.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... not sure if it's a real test.

Let's see what people think about it around the web.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm not on the web. Spiders here don't catch humans, most of the times.

Damkerng T.

Hmm...

> The gong, believed to have originated in Western Asia, reached China in the sixth century, where it continues to be used for a wide range of purposes, including a military signal, a rhythmic accompaniment for vocal performance, and a ritual instrument.

> knowsys1.blogspot.com/2012/02/sat-question-of-day-226.html

> Now abbreviate the sentence to see what it is really saying: The purposes of the gong are a military signal, a rhythmic accompaniment, and a ritual instrument. It does not make sense to say that these are the purposes of the gong, but it does make sense to say that the purpose of the gong is to be used as these things. Therefore, choice D (including) is wrong.

An interesting way to read that sentence.

Ah, right. Including doesn't mean such as.

Let's have a look at B (which include).

> The gong, believed to have originated in Western Asia, reached China in the sixth century, where it continues to be used for a wide range of purposes, which include a military signal, a rhythmic accompaniment for vocal performance, and a ritual instrument.

Choice B omits the necessary preposition "as" and is needlessly wordy. Even if "as" were included, the sentence is just as correct without "which" as with it.

This is the perfect sentence (because it's the answer, according to people around the web):

> The gong, believed to have originated in Western Asia, reached China in the sixth century, where it continues to be used for a wide range of purposes, including as a military signal, a rhythmic accompaniment for vocal performance, and a ritual instrument.

Hmm...

0

A: usage of "including as"

I don't think that "including" is optimal here, I would prefer e.g. (for example); then you have no problem with "as".

This is true... but it's the rule of the game. They'll never give you the most sensible choice.

1

A: usage of "including as"

We can rephrase the sentence slightly, with emphasis: The range of purposes that gongs are used for includes as a military signal, [as] a rhythmic accompaniment, and [as] a ritual instrument. With this in mind, most of your questions become hard to parse, because include as isn't a coherent...

This is a reasonable explanation.

So, essentially, the test wants us to read a wide range of purposes as a single unit, and its post-modifier must modify only "range", not "purpose".

So, I think the test designer would appreciate this alternative of mine:

Hmm... probably not. (I was thinking of such as as.)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

9:35 AM

LOL @ "Bring some snacks." I should note, though: ELL cannot be responsible for any damage due to beverages spilt on keyboards during the TCE. And, yes, "beverages" includes water. :-) — J.R. ♦ 52 mins ago

Damkerng T.

Beverages include water indeed.

On second though, I think such as as works.

> The gong, believed to have originated in Western Asia, reached China in the sixth century, where it continues to be used for a wide range of purposes, such as as a military signal, a rhythmic accompaniment for vocal performance, and a ritual instrument.

But they may want me to rewrite it as:

> The gong, believed to have originated in Western Asia, reached China in the sixth century, where it continues to be used for a wide range of purposes, such as as a military signal, as a rhythmic accompaniment for vocal performance, and as a ritual instrument.

Then again, they may just complain that two ass in a row is an eyesore.

:P

Damkerng T.

11:11 AM

> There are as many people wrapped in sheets anymore as Ivy League suits.

> --The Death Dealers

An interesting anymore!

Damkerng T.

12:17 PM

Word of the Day: exegesis

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

> Word of the yesterday: lucidify

Damkerng T.

Oh, it's from yesterday!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Take a look at the first revision of the title FAQ.

Damkerng T.

:-)

I like it when people help each other.

Damkerng T.

1:18 PM

0

Q: What does a week on Tuesday mean?

I have heard a sentence saying "The seminar now will take place a week on Tuesday" Does this mean the seminar will take place from next Tuesday? Could anyone explain grammatically how that is correct? Thank you for your help!

grammar

Hmm... a curious phrase.

> The seminar now will take place a week on Tuesday.

Will the seminar be one week long?

Or, it just means that it'll start seven days from now, however long it will be.

oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/week

> a week on ——
1 Seven days after the specified day or date:
we’ll be back a week on Friday

Even the definition is ambiguous!

Oh, I see... I think the first answer got it right.

Hello,@victoria, and welcome to ELL! This is a Q&A website for English learners; however, the site's guideline says "Questions that can be answered by a quick dictionary lookup (these are off topic on ELL, and there are many free dictionaries available online)", which makes your question off-topic. Please don't get discourage. We wish to see more good questions coming from you! — Damkerng T. 12 mins ago

Argh! My typos and brainos!

It happens almost every time I want to copy-and-paste something into my text.

Damkerng T.

1:40 PM

3

Q: between thumb, forefinger and middle finger -- why no articles?

Source: Code: The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and Software by Charles Petzold Example: Despite the fancy appearance, this was just a switch designed for maximum speed. The most comfortable way to use the key for long periods of time was to hold the handle between thumb, forefinger a...

definite-article ellipsis

That's quite curious.

To amplify on blue's comment. I would say that, by saying, 'the human's brain', the zombies are discussing one particular human - maybe one they are keeping captive for consumption later. They are not talking about humans in general. — chasly from UK 1 hour ago

Judging from comments and answers, the human's <any body part> doesn't work in the sense of the generic the.

(even when said by an alien or a zombie in a novel)

But we do have some examples of the human's brain. (I found one example using it in contrast to the monkey's brain in Google Books.) This is rare, in any case.

Anonymous

2:24 PM

1

Q: Congratulations! Japanese Language is graduating!

It's a big day. You've been cleared for graduation by the Stack Exchange Community Team! Japanese Language met our threshold for graduation-worthy sites and after a review, the Community Team determined that you're good to go. Reaching 'mature community' status is a big milestone, and you should ...

discussion featured graduation

Anonymous

Japanese is following in ELL's footsteps :-)

Damkerng T.

Huh? I thought JSLE had already graduated.

Anonymous

Nope!

Damkerng T.

Ahh... it's today!

Congrats!

Anonymous

So I may or may not be turning non-blue :-)

StoneyB

2:26 PM

@snailboat Gratuliere!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Eh? Oh? Do you have an election over there too?

@snailboat Ah, I see. It's coming up soon.

You have one vote in your pocket, BTW. ;-)

Damkerng T.

2:43 PM

Aww... that sounds like a heavy rain is coming, outside my house.

Ohh... that was a long thunder peal!

I wonder if I will get a power outage tonight...

Damkerng T.

3:35 PM

8

Q: What's the full answer to "shall I"?

The form Shall I is used to make offers, in general. For example Shall I help you? and one would answer Yeah, help me but what's the full answer? I mean, with a question like You will go for meat, won't you? Short answer: Yeah. Full answer: Yes I will. But shall as a second ...

grammar sentence-construction

Ahh... looks like my little comment stirred up something not in the direction I originally wanted.

yesterday, by Damkerng T.

Syntax vs. implication?

I think syntactically, "Shall I ...?" sounds like it wants the reply, "Yes, you shall ..." or "No, you shan't ..."

But English modal verbs don't seem like they have to work this way.

tchrist

@DamkerngT. But it doesn't.

Shall I means Should I or Do you want me to here.

Damkerng T.

Yes, I know that. That's why I thought it was a curious case.

But I don't have a good explanation why it doesn't work that way.

I still remember those drills in grammar books:

"Do you ...?" "Yes, I do." "No, I don't."

"Can you ...?" "Yes, I can." "No, I can't."

"Will you ...?" "Yes, I will." "No, I won't."

But I can't remember shall in the drills.

Hmm... is this kind of answer called "echo yes/no questions"? I guess there must be a better name for it.

tchrist

"Shall I make us some coffee?" "Yes, please do."

"Shall we go now?" "Yes, let’s."

Or "Yes, we should."

Damkerng T.

I wonder how odd it would be on the scale of 0-10 if I replied "Yes, you shall" or "Yes, we shall". Very close to 10, perhaps?

tchrist

3:51 PM

Well, "yes, you shall" is a command.

Just like "Yes, do that" is.

Damkerng T.

nods

tchrist

It is, however, hardly unheard of for someone to jokingly reply to "Shall we go now?" with "Yes, we shall."

Anonymous

4:47 PM

@DamkerngT. See CGEL pages 194-5, where deontic uses of shall are described.

Damkerng T.

5:03 PM

@snailboat Thanks! I'll keep this in mind.

Right now, I'm reading Shall and Will. Fowler, H. W. 1908. The King's English, and I can't say that I understand it at the moment.

But according to information on that page, it looks like answering "Shall I ...?" with "Yes, you shall." may be possible in what he calls the "pure system".

And it probably was only good a hundred years ago.

Anonymous

6:50 PM

@DamkerngT. You'll find a rather different description in a modern descriptive grammar than in a prescriptive article from a hundred years ago

Damkerng T.

nods -- I agree. Still, I find what Fowler wrote quite interesting! (even though I'm still not sure about all the points he made).

Anonymous

Oh, I'm not trying to say you shouldn't read it :-)

Damkerng T.

Understood! :D

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

Eep!

Anonymous

6:54 PM

Apparently the Red Hat logo is secretly a T. rex with a humanoid arm punching the horn off a nedoceratops!

Damkerng T.

Now I can't make myself not see the Rex in the Red Hat logo!

Anonymous

And yes, the T. rex is inadequately feathered!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Um.

Anonymous

Any moment now, I'll figure out a way to make this into an on-topic discussion about English.

Damkerng T.

It's related to nedoceratops, which is an English word. :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

6:57 PM

@DamkerngT. Latinglish, to be exact.

Anonymous

→ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedoceratops#Etymology

Damkerng T.

Nice!

Anonymous

Not exactly Latin.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh, Russinglish?

Maybe Russitinglish.

Anonymous

Well, the last bit is from Greek.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

6:59 PM

Russingleek?

Damkerng T.

I think I'm more familiar with his cousin, the triceratops.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. A perfect opportunity for an apostrophe to separate the plural suffix -s from its base used metalinguistically!

Damkerng T.

Hee!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. But the animal in the picture doesn't appear to have a third horn, so it's not very tri.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Indeed. I think this is the first time I've seen one with two horns (in drawings, documentaries, or animations).

Anonymous

7:01 PM

@DamkerngT. Nedoceratops isn't as popular!

Damkerng T.

Poor nedoceratops!

Anonymous

I think my brain keeps changing it to ni due to interference from Japanese ni 'two'.

Damkerng T.

Hehe! I can imagine that!

(BTW, if you think a Thai named Porn could feel awkward when they move to an English speaking place, imagine someone named Chit. And yes, they all avoid the spelling with Sh, and use Ch instead.)

Anonymous

Oh, that sounds unfortunate! My mother's maiden name was more or less profane in English, by the way.

Damkerng T.

I don't know why ni made me think of that name!

Anonymous

7:05 PM

She grew up very sensitive about it.

Damkerng T.

Aww

Anonymous

Kids in the schoolyard are capable of making fun of any name, though.

Damkerng T.

That's very true!

As for my name, it sometimes went like this: Your name is black (Dam in Thai means black), why are you so white?

I think that must've been before I was 12.

(I'm not white as in white-white, BTW.)

I can't remember all those name I had in my childhood, but it was quite a lot.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:47 PM

My friends still make fun of my name.

Damkerng T.

I think it'll keep going on until you're graduated. :-)

柴犬にそっと毛づくろいをする猫

►

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It'll keep going on till I'm alive, prolly.

Anonymous

For me, bullying mostly stopped when I was sixteen or so.

Damkerng T.

A Japanese dog and cat... I wonder what she said.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

So @Dam, are images of cute cats on-topic?

Damkerng T.

7:52 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Definitely! :D

All pets are welcome. :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I admit I think felines can be cute, but not dogs not bears.

Catija

Damkerng T.

Aww

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That looks like a white collar guy to me.

Not. Cute. Enough.

@Dam here's something you should try too:

Catija

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:59 PM

Seriously?

Damkerng T.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

8:23 PM

@DamkerngT. How many of them does Hagu represent everyday?

Damkerng T.

Almost all!

But it looks like Excited and "This is mine" are his favorites.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

When does he get irritated?

Damkerng T.

Oh, when I want to play with him but he doesn't. :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. I'm not sure if that ellipsis works: When I want to play with him but he doesn't want to play with him?

Damkerng T.

Just he doesn't want to play.

Hmm... the chart misses one thing: another kind of anxious, when he wants to play but I don't want to. :D

Anonymous

9:15 PM

It might be better if the ellipsis follows want to rather than doesn't, because then it's unambiguous:

Anonymous

> 1a. [when I want to play with him] but [he doesn't ~~play with me~~]

Anonymous

> 1b. [when I want to play with him] but [he doesn't ~~want to play with me~~]

Anonymous

> 2a. [when I want to play with him] but [he doesn't want to ~~play with me~~]

Anonymous

When the phrase ends at doesn't, I suppose the ear of the listener might be confused for a moment.

Anonymous

(I wrote "post-auxiliary ellipsis" but deleted the "post-auxiliary" part since the auxiliary status of the infinitive marker to is controversial! But at least in this respect it is fairly similar to an auxiliary. The term "post-auxiliary ellipsis" (PAE) is due to Ivan Sag, Deletion and Logical Form, 1976, page 53.)

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