Language Overflow - 2015-12-17 (page 1 of 3)

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5:26 AM

@Dam ... I'm Batman, dammit!

BATMAN - ARKHAM ASYLUM - GOTY : I'm Batman, Dammit #1

O.O

2 hours later…

7:22 AM

Maulik unfortunately you missed @Dam's point. Why should you post an answer when you're in the same position as the OP i.e. unsure whether the answer is correct? — Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. 2 mins ago

+1000 for a great summary!

@DamkerngT. (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ

I should change the hat right now.

Oh @Dam I just wore a new hat and I look ridiculous.

7:42 AM

Checking it out... (It still is the old hat in here.)

Haha!

Hmm, it got updated here.

I look stupid.

^^ And I said that first @JimR.

I think you need another hat on your avatar, and it'll be perfect!

What hat?

Any hat. :-)

The lab glasses looked nice, but they didn't look at all.

8:08 AM

in ELL's Cabin, 3 mins ago, by snailboat

The good in goodbye is actually God originally.

in ELL's Cabin, 2 mins ago, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

The Persian version literally translates into "GodLookafter".

Anonymous

> A contraction of the phrase God be with you (or ye); see god n. 8. The substitution of good- for God may have been due to association with such formulas of leave-taking as good day, good night, etc. (OED)

3

You will enjoy this. reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3x13z5/…

I got a 18+ warning!

Oh, it is not 18+. I promise.

@ParthKohli BTW general chatting stuff usually go to ELL's Cabin. We meant to keep this room strictly for language conversations.

ELL's Cabin

This is the former main chat room for English Language Learner...

Anonymous

8:15 AM

An 18+ warning? Where?

Anonymous

Oh

Anonymous

We haven't always been very good at distinguishing these rooms, but let's try to distinguish them again.

nods

> I always said "good riddance" to people because I thought it was a classy goodbye.

Facepalm

YES! START BY GALLERIFYING THIS ROOM @DAM KING T-2000.

But do we really need to? I don't want to ruin the open atmosphere we have now.

We could use a poll, I think!

Anonymous

8:18 AM

Let's leave it ungalleried for now.

If you want to see this room un-gallery, star this message.

3

If you want to see this room as a gallery one, star this message.

2

Anonymous

Making it a gallery could be useful, but it made some people unhappy, and this room isn't here to make people unhappy.

I suddenly felt I'm outnumbered.

@snailboat But that was a long time ago.

Anonymous

True.

8:36 AM

@snailboat Russian "goodbye" means "until the next meeting", this reminds me of the German bis bald

@CopperKettle Yeah, "an embarrassed Ben . . . " can be replaced by "Ben, who was embarrassed, . . .", though it doesn't sound as smooth. In your quote, however, "a free Europe" carries more weight and implication to what is left after the crumbling. — Alex K 14 hours ago

(this means that free is a restrictive adjective after all)

I think Thai doesn't have a real equivalent phrase, but we do have [go-good-come-good]. :-)

I would want to see go-good-come-good on a question.

@DamkerngT. Nice! So then two Thai people part, each says "go good come good".. (0:

hey, all. :3
I come here with a few doubts concerning whether would, and will are interchangeable.
should i take to the main site to post it as a question? .-.

Anonymous

What's your sentence, @lekonchekon?

8:39 AM

@lekonchekon Of course they're not interchangeable. That's why they're two words.

@CopperKettle Only the host says to the guess who is leaving. :-)

Anonymous

Asking questions on ELL is a good idea, but you're always welcome here in Language Overflow.

At the very least, there'll be a change in meaning.

okay.
let me just make up one.

umm.

You wouldn't believe what transpired yesterday even if i told you.
You wouldn't believe what transpired yesterday even if i tell you.
You won't believe what transpired yesterday even if i tell you.

I think if they met each other in a public place, it would be [then-meet-together-again].

Anonymous

8:41 AM

Oh, if you're just asking whether will and would are interchangeable in general, the answer is no, but there are times when either word works.

I'd better leave it to snailboat. :-)

I'm on iPad anyway.

and what about the verb tense harmony?

if i use would, am i obligated to use simple past?

@DamkerngT. And the iPad doesn't break? O_O

LOL

Anonymous

@lekonchekon Nope.

8:43 AM

so.
what's the verb tense harmony for, if no one prefers using it anyway?

@lekonchekon There are "mixed conditionals"

i came across a post on facebook that read that some man has gone missing in thailand, and the authorities are looking into it.

I came across a post on facebook that read that some man had gone missing in thailand, and the authorities were looking into it.

@lekonchekon Conditionals are too interesting for such rules.

@lekonchekon Both are acceptable if the man is still missing. Get a copy of CGEL (Cambridge Grammar) and read a dozen of pages on backshifting. (0:

i know.
it just comes to me that when one follows how verb tense consistency works, the sentences are more beautiful in a profoundly polite kind of manner. :p

._. could you have me read something that'd have my concepts cleared, but is quite simple to comprehend?

8:47 AM

@lekonchekon THe main thing in launguage is sense, the grammar is bells and whistles. (0:

@lekonchekon CGEL is simple, at your level of English you shall have no problems reading it. (0:

what other topics does it cover?

@lekonchekon It does not cover organic chemistry, but the rest of topics it does cover with verve.

@CopperKettle I can give you the Blue Book for that matter.

if it did cover organic chemistry, i'd probably not even consider going through it. ._.
chemistry is like a nightmare to me. ._.
If there was horror movie based on my life, the villain of the movie would be a ducking chemistry book. ._.

i like physics though. :')

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Thank you, but just not yet. I haven't been through the inorganic. (0:

8:51 AM

are any of you interested in computer stuff?

Anonymous

I'm interested in computer stuff.

not very..

have you ever heard of the deep web?

it's quite intriguing.

Anonymous

@CopperKettle I'm impressed! I consider CGEL to be quite complex :-)

if you're into stuff that would normally horrify people. ._.

Anonymous

8:53 AM

No, thank you.

@snailboat (0:

@lekonchekon I live in Russia, so this stuff is around me anyway, sans Deep Web.

does it not affect you at all, knowing what kinds of horrifying stuff that goes on in there?

the first time i heard about it, it pretty much had me fall into depression.

i couldn't deal with how stuff like that could happen, and there wasn't much people could do about it.

@lekonchekon With Russia's Prosecutor General involved with a gang that killed 12 people, and in billion-dollar corruption schemes, do I need Deep Web?

nope.

I'm horrified enough. (0:

8:57 AM

the world is too depressing.

@CopperKettle You need Quirk et al.

the more you get to know about its ways, the more depressing it is.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. In this quirky world, we all need Quirk et al. (0:

Anonymous

I changed my mind. If we gallery this room we can do a better job of keeping it on-topic.

@snailboat Hahahaha

Anonymous

8:58 AM

Then we can redirect people to the Cabin for general chat.

hahahahahaah laughs hysterically not knowing what on earth is going on here

What is "gallery this room"? O_o

._.

@Dam-on-iPad do you see this?

probably something about this room on display at some gallery or something.. ._.
nah, it can't be that literal. ._.

9:00 AM

@lekonchekon Gallery rooms are rooms only consented people can talk.

We want to keep this room on-topic for language discussion, but to no avail since it's not a gallery room.

I want to talk about ...

What do bats eat?

Fruit.

Blood.

Flood.

pretty much.

nectar.

if my mind serves me right.

I look like the magic mirror in Shrek right now.

46 mins ago, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@ParthKohli BTW general chatting stuff usually go to ELL's Cabin. We meant to keep this room strictly for language conversations.

I had forgotten about this, if I ever really knew it.

I want to know . . . bat grammar.

9:03 AM

Too bad I can't star my own message.

Is it SVO ?

You tell me. You're the guy with the bat face on.

9:29 AM

An idiom is like a word: to be taken as a whole and not considered as a composition of its elements. In fact, focusing on the components may mislead you regarding the meaning of the whole (e.g. in kicked the bucket there is no bucket and it wasn't kicked). A metaphor is a kind of analogy, which intentionally choose an emphasizes elements to draw a parallel with some other (analogous) situation. Having read these definitions, you may note they are not mutually exclusive: one person may use a phrase "blindly" as a word having some fixed meaning, and a it her may be using it metaphorically. — Dan Bron Sep 17 at 12:43

It came up again, and I think it's good definitions.

Hello, Batman! @JimReynolds

BTW, ell.stackexchange.com/q/76087/3281 needs only one more vote.

Hiya

T minus 30

→ 22 messages moved to Trash

T minus ten, nine, eight, seven . . .

4 hours later…

1:15 PM

1

A: What does the nutshell in “in a nutshell” stand for?

According to some historical rumors, Pliny the Elder wrote that Cicero once found a copy of Homer's Iliad, written in puny letters compressed in a nutshell. Now the Iliad isn't particularly concise or anything, but that seems to be the origin of the concept as we know it today, if not the idiom i...

@snailboat Pliny! Pliny is mentioned!

Hi, @V.V.! Welcome to the room!

I love your hat, @Dam!

Or, rather: @Dam, I love that hat!

Thanks! breathing heavily

1:30 PM

Onomatopoeia can be fun...

blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/…

writingforums.org/threads/onomatopoeia-help-gasmask-noise.60040

boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=15610

fark.com/comments/4042872/…

2:22 PM

4

Q: Why can't Yoda speak in proper English grammar?

Yoda, being a Jedi grand master, should have better communication skills given that he is supreme leader among the Jedis. Why can't he learn to speak English properly?

3:02 PM

I'm not sure why learners feel like they have to hide their sources. (Quite often, they edit the sentence and unintentionally make the sentence sound wrong.) But maybe it's not them; maybe it's their teachers.

0

Q: The keys to the luggage got missed or went missing

The morning we were going to the holiday, we had a bitter conversation. After that, the keys to the luggage ........... . Eventually, He found them in his jacket pocket. 1) got missed 2) went missing 3) went missed 4) got missing The answer in the book is "went missing". I don't understa...

sentence-construction word-choice passive-voice

I think the original is from: https://books.google.com/books?id=rO05XpVhtnsC&pg=PA43
(under 21.4)

I don't want to make any comment because I just mentioned something similar about realistic home/office addresses in another question yesterday.

3:20 PM

hey. ._.

could you help me out with something.

i even posted a question on the topic.
And i think both the following mean pretty much the same.

I saw him getting his mails the other day.
I saw him get his mails the other day.

Now, both are correct i think.
But where lies the difference in their meaning?

@DamkerngT. there?

._.

Yes?

reading...

Ah, they're close, but not quite the same.

I saw the question, but I don't have enough energy to post any answer.

Do you have Practical English Usage?

(I also remember that snailboat has explained this to a lot of learners several times.)

i have no clue as to what in deepest corner of hell that is. ._.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I'm starting to despair of anyone on Japanese.SE ever sharing the source of the passage they're asking about. And that's if we're lucky – 'passage' often gives way to 'sentence', or just 'phrase'. Or less.

Anonymous

I especially enjoy questions about misspelled non-constituent strings devoid of context.

@snailboat Not sharing the source can be a burden on answerers' part already, but editing/modifying/twisting original sentences just make it worse!

@snailboat Hah!

3:28 PM

@DamkerngT. were you talking about the book written by michael swan?

@lekonchekon Okay, I think the typical example is: I saw him drown vs. I saw him drowning.

@lekonchekon Yes!

is it any good?

Anonymous

PEU is pretty good :-)

:")

._.)

tata

okay.
Mom's calling me.
I must have gotten me into some kind of trouble. ._.
if i don't go now, she'll kill me. ._.

(BTW, I meant I don't judge when I said okay.)

3:32 PM

i'll be back later. :P

→ 1 message moved to Trash

I wonder if lekon chekon will make it. :-)

I hope he won't get killed. :P

i wonder that too. :'|

By the way, @snailboat, we have another user named nes.! It's suddenly become popular!

Anonymous

Oh!

Hello, guys!

3:34 PM

@lekonchekon Or is it "If I didn't go now, she would kill me!"?

@DamkerngT. Hi, Damkerng!

Hi, Snails!

I still can't decide which sound I should go with, for the breathing sound of Darth Vader.

Anonymous

Hi!

Let me try.

"Hello, everyone!" Khaaaaaaaah

(0Ж

Anonymous

Kinda scary :-)

3:37 PM

(a smile with scrunched up eyes)

4:00 PM

Hello everyone

Hello @DamkerngT. . Hello@CopperKettle

0

Q: "I'd better" or "it would be better"?

I wrote : If I want to save and retrieve an object, should I create another class to handle it, or it would be better to do that in the class itself? Is it better to say it as: If I want to save and retrieve an object, should I create another class to handle it, or I'd better to do that...

difference phrase-usage

Hi! @Hanaa

The answer is quite correct, but it overlooks a few things.

Yes

Oh, maybe you can help him! :D

ok

Top of the evening, @Hanaa!

4:04 PM

How@CopperKettle?

top of the morning

== English == === Phrase === top of the morning (Ireland, New England, idiomatic, archaic) A generic greeting said to someone in the morning. ==== Usage notes ==== This term should be considered archetypal or stereotypical of Irish speech. It is rarely heard in Ireland. See Hollywood Irish. ==== Related terms ==== top of the hour...

Irish! That's cute!

Anonymous

They should mention that it's I'd better do something, not *I'd better to do something.

(0:

Yes no to there

Anonymous

4:07 PM

But they're right that the OP should use subject-auxiliary inversion.

Anonymous

And the would version is probably more appropriate.

Anonymous

The OP might be thinking of sentences rather than clauses.

Anonymous

Not realizing both main interrogative clauses need subject-auxiliary inversion.

yes

@snailboat Is this a major error, or one that could be committed by a native speaker, I wonder.

After all, there's the question mark in place.

Anonymous

4:16 PM

Are you asking if you can coordinate an interrogative question with a declarative question?

Yes. I can guess that the answer is "no" though..

Anonymous

You can coordinate those things, but all the usual rules for declarative questions apply (they're relatively restricted).

nods

"Is buying a second hand disc of this game a good investment or it would be better if i buy my own?" (from a webforum)

We use “had better” plus the infinitive without “to” to give advice. Although “had” is the past form of “have”, we use “had better” to give advice about the present or future.

You'd better tell her everything.
I'd better get back to work.

@CopperKettle that isn't how I would write, but I think it's correct in the sense that it conveys intent without fudging with emphasis

@CopperKettle either that or I'm totally lacking context, diving straight into an ongoing conversation. If that's the case, I apologize.

4:27 PM

I was just wandering if that quote from a forum was also ungrammatical. (0:

wondering SCNR :-)

thanks!

Another, from GitHub: "Can I create pull request for this feature, or it would be better done as extension?"

> Is buying a second hand disc of this game a good investment or it would be better if i buy my own?

This is how I'd write:
> Is buying a second hand disc of this game a good investment or would it be better if I buy my own?

@S.R.I Are you a native speaker of English (if you don't mind answering)?

@CopperKettle Damn man, I'm Indian. Am I a native speaker? :-)

@CopperKettle "dots, not feathers"

:P

4:30 PM

@S.R.I probably yes. Indian English is English. (0:

@S.R.I Nice! I did not know this expression!

Not a Feather, but a Dot

Not a Feather, but a Dot is an hour-long documentary film on the history, perceptions, stereotypes and changes in the Indian American community. The film discusses topics such as the growth of Hinduism in the United States, the origin of the stereotypes surrounding the Indian-American community, the early Indian migrants and events that have shaped the Indian-American community, and members of the Indian-American community that are changing "traditional" perceptions. It is narrated by filmmaker Teju Prasad who infuses his personal experience, historical analysis from academics, and experiences...

@CopperKettle Oh, that's a movie quote from "Good Will Hunting"

nods

@S.R.I It would be better+if is considered conditional

@Hanaa Sure. It's also correct writing "... would it be better buying my own" or "... would it be better as an extension"

So in the if clause, we use the verb in the past

4:35 PM

Don't ask me why, I can't articulate grammatical terms like some do here. :-)

We need to search in the rules of "would be better to "

Anonymous

@CopperKettle If we assume it was intended as an interrogative then yes, it's ungrammatical.

nods

Anonymous

The examples you quoted sound off to me.

I did not find any explanation about would be better to

4:42 PM

nods I see. I'll try to remember not to repeat these patterns.

Anonymous

@CopperKettle The vast majority of Indian English speakers are non-native speakers.

Anonymous

India has plenty of other languages.

@snailboat There must be some who have spoken English since early childhood.

Anonymous

Yes, but only a fraction of one percent.

@CopperKettle @snailboat is right. I didn't learn English on my "mama's lap"

4:43 PM

@snailboat I know. (0:

@S.R.I Your family did not speak English?

@snailboat You're probably referring to the Anglo-Indian population

I see. I just thought since it's kind of official language, people hear it from childhood. (0:

@CopperKettle Not at home, we never speak English at home :-)

I see. (0:

@snailboat

"would be better to" is for giving advice

4:47 PM

A new user, called "n.e.s."

0

A: "Martin Schkreli has been arrested" -- is the sentence present perfect?

The website English Club is a good resource for learners at your level. It includes a basic English Grammar Guide. And this Grammar Guide has lots of information on "The Passive Voice". It might be more correct to refer to this as passive constructions because one can say that English has no pass...

Anonymous

Attack of the Clones!

(0:

Passive voices die today! :P

No feedback for me!

Am i invisible?!

@Hanaa Could such a beauty be invisible? You're blinding! (0:

Anonymous

4:49 PM

What would you like feedback on?

Thanks @CopperKettle

@snailboat

It s about the use of "would be better to"

"I turn away reluctant from your light,
And stand irresolute, a mind undone,
A silly, dazzled thing deprived of sight
From having looked too long upon the sun. "

(0:

I don't want to hear feedback! It's always that damn sine wave! :P

Anonymous

Oh, you told me what that was used for a few minutes ago. Did you intend to ask about it instead of telling me about it?

yes

Anonymous

4:52 PM

I didn't realize it was a question

What is the use of would be better to?

I formed a question now

@Hanaa A mild proposal.

Like "It would be better to discuss conditional sentences now (than to do something else)".

@CopperKettle now that you've started quoting poetry, did you get around to reading the rest of Nissim Ezekiel? :-)

Hello everyone!!! How are u?

@CopperKettle .... there is no "if" in my question ^_^

So it is not conditional

4:54 PM

@S.R.I No, sorry. I've read several verses only.. I'm a slow poetry reader. I have been reading Keats a whole year, in small installments. (0:

Hi, @Man_From_India! We are fine!

Hi @Man_From_India

hello

@CopperKettle Oh, that's perfectly fine. I was just wondering if you can still keep up with his form of poetry :-)

@Man_From_India OHHAI

@S.R.I Not very. Maybe I'll come to love him later. I love rhyming poetry, so most of the modern poets are off-limits. (0:

@CopperKettle... what i found is that "would be better to" and "had better +stem" are used when giving advice

4:57 PM

@Hanaa They probably are! I saw your answer to that question!

@CopperKettle Oh no, don't put me in his fan club!

Anonymous

I think had better is stronger, more direct, and less formal.

(0:

ok

Anonymous

@Nihilist_Frost ?

5:01 PM

@snailboat ? what?

link broke?

Anonymous

5 mins ago, by Nihilist_Frost

I'm gonna test your ears Snailboat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=696NDThs_nk

@CopperKettle What does it mean?

Anonymous

How will this test my ears?

@Hanaa It's from a nice poem by Edna St Vincent Millay

@snailboat F that, I told you the lyrics a month ago

5:01 PM

@Hanaa In which Edna compares her lover with the Sun

gonna ask to remove

I see

Millay is one of the USA's finest poets

I got my gemination question under fire for being "unclear"

It's basically "is it true that gemination distinguishes this minimal pair"?

She writes in a romantic style as i saw

Anonymous

5:03 PM

I thought it was clear enough.

Anonymous

I edited it a little bit because a couple notational bits were confusing.

@Hanaa Maybe. She has easier poems, if you find it hard to decipher this one.

Yes

She wrote great sonnets.

But simpler poems too.

Nice!

5:06 PM

Yes..

Great use of the Past Perfect, very illustrative: "We were very tired, we were very merry -- We had gone back and forth all night on the ferry." (consequence --- cause)

Yes great!

(0:

Anonymous

A point in the past, before that point in the past.

The point is not known

The present perfect is nearer to the present . ex: Have you seen the movie?

Whereas, the past perfect is before a past action done in a specific time in the past. ex: Yesterday, we went to university, and had administered our assignments.

Anonymous

Hmm, that example seems a little weird.

5:19 PM

How?

Anonymous

The had administered our assignments part.

I'm not native speaker any way :D

@snailboat?

5:37 PM

@Hanaa "Yesterday, we left the university early -- the electricity had been cut by a storm"

left is past, had been cut is earlier past

The Past Perfect is used to indicate an "earlier past".

Yeees :D

I liked this expression of an earlier past

"Yesterday, we went to university, and had administered our assignments." -- this is WRONG, because it presents the administering of assigment as an earlier event compared with "we went to the university". (0:

ooops

"Yesterday, my sentence was corrected in a chat room. The matter is, I had been only taught Simple Past, not Past Perfect, at my university, and so I made a mistake."

We had been asked to make a survey. Yesterday, we administered it.

5:46 PM

nods

"Yesterday, we administered a survey that we had been asked to make a day earlier"

oh not a day earlier; that is too rigid :D

(0:

but a month earlier

But if the reader can guess what the sequence of events is, in many cases it's not stricly necessary to use the Past Perfect.

for every day conversations, u can not use it as i guess

but for academic writing, it s obligatory

5:48 PM

I guess you can use it in everyday conversation too, but it's probably used not that widely.

@Hanaa Maybe if you're writing about literature. (0: In technical articles on biology and stuff, English sometimes is quite poor, and nobody fusses much over it. (0:

yes

Yes, indeed, we focus on the information rather than the grammatical rules

nods

Even me i'm not an over user of grammar

When the sentence is meaningful, it's ok

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Transcript for

Dec '1517

Language Overflow

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