Judaism believes in non-determinism?

@DoubleAA I've never heard a reasonable explanation of bechira chofshith (free will) or hashgacha pratith (divine intervention) that doesn't assume as much.

Funny. I've never heard of one that does. How can I know that what I choose will cause what I want to happen if the universe is non-deterministic?

@DoubleAA By non-determinism I mean (obviously) not that everything is entirely independent, but that some things are somewhat independent - a belief that is only (very) gradually becoming accepted in the scientific community because of quantum mechanics.

"the rise in the incidence of depression" I'll take that with polio and smallpox vaccines any day.

"somewhat independent" what does that mean? You mean like conditional probability? Covariance?

@DoubleAA Yes. (The point is that the dogmatic and extreme determinism that dominated Western intellectual thought for millennia was rejected by Jewish thought from the beginning and was only forced down the throats of the Western intelligentsia in the 20th century by the new discoveries in physics. [and they're still resistant in the neurosciences.])

What are you talking about? Nothing was shoved down anyone's throats. The whole beauty of Modern Physics (both QM and relativity) is how it only applies in the limits and not in the regular world (the so-called "classical limit"), except in the explaining certain already observed normal phenomenon (like the ultraviolet "catastrophe", the orbit or Mercury, etc.). Classical dynamics and its deterministic structure remains for all everyday intents and purposes remains as unchanged as ever.

I disagree. The whole beauty of QM is how it applies (via amplification machines such as the brain or weather) to the regular world. Our sense of free will (and, hence, of self) is an already and regularly observed phenomenon which does not fit by definition into a deterministic system.

@loewian But then our free will should be random, not determined by me. I can't "will" for a particular Uranium atom to disintegrate.

@ShmuelBrin I don't see what you're arguing. (From the perspective of someone else, my choices are "random" i.e. they can't control them inasmuch as I am. From my perspective, they are me. And when you are willing anything, the assumption is that you are causing some change in your brain that can result in an overt action.)

@loewian How do you observe free will?

@loewian In any event, even if it is observable, QM doesn't explain it at all. It just changes physics-determinism where an action causes another for sure to physics-determinism where actions change probabilities of future actions in definite ways. All free will questions remain perfectly in place.

The question shifts from "Should I pull this trigger?" to "Should, if I happen to not randomly transform into a sheep, pull this trigger and possibly end up shooting my friend?" That doesn't solve any free will question. We still have to ask if I'm really choosing to pull the trigger or if my past forces me into the decision.

@DoubleAA The same way we observe everything else - by experiencing it first-hand. (And in others presumably by induction.)

I never said QM explained it any more than Einstein or Newton explained my experience of anything. Physicist just organize experiences into reliable patterns with which we can make predictions. They never explain anything.

What is notable about QM (in my answer) is that whereas the dominant dogma of determinism left no room for the online interacting with the physical universe one assumes with bechira chofshith, hashgacha pratith, etc., QM defined a mechanism whereby the physical laws were no longer incompatible with these ideas (which was a plus for science since rational minds never doubted them to begin with and the onus was on the theorists, not on the observers).

@DoubleAA We don't have to ask any such questions if we don't accept the selective and anti-rational assumptions of the dogmatic ideologues who have yet to abandon determinism. There has never been a discovery in neuroscience that has contradicted our perception of free will, just a lot of ideological wishful thinking.

@loewian You keep saying that QM is somehow more compatible with free will than classical physics-determinism. Please explain that claim instead of asserting it again as I have tried to show you why it is inaccurate.

@loewian Don't addicts, drunkards, and the mentally insane experience free will too, accd to you then? Pretty weak definition of free will.

@loewian I don't understand this at all. Why don't we ask the question before accepting what the answer should be? IAE my point was just the question is effectively the same before and after the advent of QM. If you have an answer to it that supports free will, great; if not, not. QM though has nothing to do with it.