Opposite question: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/14142/…

This case, as constructed, sounds very highly specific, and the right thing to do in this specific case is likely dependent on other particularities of the case (e.g. your general practice, your community's standards, your relationship with the gentile, the importance of your job). I recommend that you make this question more general, e.g. "Is this sort of chilul Hashem something to take into account at all?"

Show her the luach saying that Shabbat starts at 8:10. ;)

I wouldnt call any of this chillul hashem. It is not his business how you keep mitvot. Chillul hashem is more like stealing etc.

@cham I do not think you are correct about that - see my answer

This in no way has to do with my post, there the chillul hashem has to do with the goyim @yEz Whereas here it hasnt.

@cham "It is not his business how you keep mitvot [sic]" is not an accurate statement. If you keep mitzvos in a way which leads him to believe that you are violating your own religion, even though he is wrong, the Mogen Avrohom calls that a chillul Hashem. And it is just one of several sources to that effect.

I dont like repeating my posts @yEz since I have nothing to add. If you didnt understand the first time what I wrote you wont understand the second time either

@cham Yes, the problem is always with the other person. I'm well familiar with that principle. Kol tuv.

Since you insist I will try again. The mogen avrohom's case is where goyim dont work on their 'chag' so a Jew shouldnt have work done on his. This has something to do with goy. How a Jew keeps shabbos has nothing to do with him. @yEz. Sounds simple to me.

@yEz My interrupting the banter - I see cham's point, as it's close to my initial discussion with you, but from a different angle, perhaps. Chilul Hashem appears to be based on Goyim's general perception of how Jew's overall behave, which may be an incorrect perception. The case you cited is based by comparing what they (don't do) and extending that assumption to us. My case (and what cham is saying) relates to something the goy never does and is based on not understanding a nuance of Shabbat times which can be corrected via educating him. Also how do we know in advance what goyim assume?

@cham You fundamentally misunderstand the Mogen Avrohom. The Mogen Avrohom says that since they think that Shabbos means not even having other people do work for you, you cannot work. It does not mean that their religion determines ours. It means that their perception of how we are supposed to keep our mitzvos requires us to be cognizant of creating the impression that we do not keep our mitzvos even if, in fact, we are. The Mogen Avrohom is not talking about Gentiles not working on their chag - he is discussing that they don't have other people from other religions do work for

them on their holiday, and therefore they perceive that this is how it is defined for us as well. I don't know what the words "this has something to do with goy" means - it isn't the Gentiles performance or lack there of that matters - it is what he thinks. I don't know if you bothered to see the Mogen Avrohom inside or not, but you should see Chelkas Yaakov E"H 17:1 - even the lenient understanding of the Mogen Avrohom is not like you.

I did not see it now but you quoted it. @yEz and that is good enough for me. DanF has explained it better than I can. He is talking about work being done on their chag no matter by whom so therefore Jews should also not have work done on our chag by anyone. I am sorry but that is how I and DanF understand it.

@cham You and Dan vs. R' Moshe Feinstein and the Chelkas Yaakov. Sounds like a tough call, but I think I know where I stand.

I have not seen the t'shuva. Please enlighten all of us and tell us 'exactly' what their shaalah was. If you have already done so my apologies. @yEz

@DanF Re: how do we know in advance, we don't, but in your case she told him. Re: "which can be corrected" the fact that it can be corrected doesn't change the impression that they have before you correct them. I never said there is no solution other than to leave early, I just said that leaving them with their misunderstanding and continuing to act in accordance with it would be a problem.

@cham I gave you chapter and verse - if you are too lazy to look it up, you probably shouldn't be forming opinions so quickly.

NO that is not fair. @yEz. You cant just quote a tshuva here and be m'dame milsa l'milsa without telling us what the shaala is. I dont have these seforim and it will take me a long time to find them on Hebrewbooks.

@cham hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14713&pgnum=52 enjoy

@yEz got the idea and the concept within the M.A. My question about not knowing what they think, still stands, of course. This really poses a tremendous challenge regarding many Chilul Hashem situations. Often, b/c you don't know what they're thinking, you can be performing C.H. and not even know that you are! How could you be liable, then. In my case, what if the goy never said anything?

Ok I have checked it @yEz The tshuva is about something entirely different. I read a chasidic woman of 65 just now had such a child. I cant of course do this in minutes. But I see nothing there that refutes what I say.

@DanF הנסתרות לה' אלקינו - you have to do what you can, same as in anything in life, and Hashem will take care of the rest.

@cham you took 2 minutes? I can't even bother continuing this discussion if it is that much of a joke to you.

@yEz I guess you're saying I'm not liable, then?

I appreciate it takes a lot longer than two minutes to read such a long tshuva. This is a vast subject and more of a political one than a halachic one. That is why they bring in other 'subjects' which have no direct bearing on the shaala at hand. The rov there also writes at the bottom that RMF treats it as a joke. So I am in good company.@yez

@DanF Yes, just as in any case where you have no way of knowing that there is anything wrong.

The sefer chasidim he quotes is that if a goy doesnt eat something (well a certain thing) then a Jew also shouldnt. That sounds like what I say @yez

independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/… The way its done today is they go to the rebbe for a b'rocho and then use someone else's like RMF says.

@cham Did you see what R' Moshe says about that? He is precisely coming to preclude your simple understanding. And, you probably missed this point, but R' Breish is being more stringent than R' Moshe - even that which we have no concept or construct of prohibition, we must take into account the moral sensitivities of the Gentiles. R' Moshe is coming to limit it to only where they see us as being internally inconsistent.

Again this is a political discussion not a halachic one I dont know that gentiles are against this. They have the answer before delving into the question so they have to fit the halacha to what they want the answer to be.