The Nineteenth Byte

El'endia Starman

12:00 AM

haa haa :P

Anonymous

Oh good, Alex brought his sock back around so we can make disapproval faces more easily

Aqua Tart

ಠ_ಠ

Anonymous

Yep that's the one

Doorknob

Aqua Tart?

El'endia Starman

ಠ_ಠ YAY!

Quill

12:05 AM

Aqua Tart?

New Main Posts

3

Q: Sandpile integers

Challenge You will be given a positive integer n as input. Output should be a pyramid-like sandpile built on the rules specified below: Each integer "falls" downward from the same initial starting point, like sand falling into a conal-shape. Numbers greater than the number directly below it w...

code-golf

Quill

just don't click on the image

Aqua Tart

dammit I was just about to get a no-death game in CS:S and then I got distracted by PPCG

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@LuisMendo \o/

Is there an encoding that uses the alt codes?

El'endia Starman

@Quill Not a sock, actually. That's quartata. Anagrammed.

Quill

12:13 AM

@El'endiaStarman But quartata is a sock

anagrammed sock

Anonymous

@Quill We're all Alex socks

Quill

Alex is a sock of Donald Trump

Dennis

@Mego Poor Alex. It must be hot under all that fabric.

Seadrus

do we have a quine for infinity challenge

El'endia Starman

Personal opinion: quines are boring.

Aqua Tart

12:16 AM

Quines themselves are interesting but the 10,000 challenges about them are not

Seadrus

would that be interesting

Eridan

There's an account called Sock that once posted a message that pinged me and got starred, and the link leads to a phishing site

Quill

do we have a count the quine challenges quine challenge?

Aqua Tart

@Eridan The same sock also posted this little gem on Meta SE:

-12

A: Ignore chat pings found in links

Here is a probable solution to your feature-request Instead of completely disabling the stealth-ping feature on chat, the users should have the ability to choose whether or not they want the stealth-ping to affect them or not. This means that all stealth-pings will appear to users (you can see w...

Zgarb

@Seadrus What do you mean by "quine for infinity"?

El'endia Starman

12:18 AM

@AquaTart Well, yes, that.

Quill

Seadrus

@Zgarb write a program that writes its source code an infinite amount of times

Aqua Tart

I wish people wouldn't use quine as a verb though

Eridan

@AquaTart Sock deserves to get lost behind a washing machine and rot there for several years

El'endia Starman

People will verb whatever nouns they want! :P

Dennis

12:19 AM

@Seadrus Yes, that exists already.

Zgarb

@Seadrus Seems too similar to a regular quine.

Seadrus

oh :(

Dennis

18

Q: A Quine on Every Line

Your goal is to create a program that prints itself indefinitely, with a new line after each one. Thus, if your program is a one-liner, it would be repeated on every line of the output. Example Program: A Output: A A A ... Rules It must be a complete program, not a snippet or function...

code-golf quine

Aqua Tart

@El'endiaStarman Considering it's named after a person I feel like it should get a little more respect

El'endia Starman

@AquaTart Oh, it's named after a person? Cool.

Zgarb

12:21 AM

@AquaTart So is currying.

El'endia Starman

Nonetheless, it's become a regular noun.

Dennis

Aqua Tart

@Zgarb But that was meant to be a verb

Zgarb

True.

Aqua Tart

Willard Van Orman Quine

Willard Van Orman Quine (/kwaɪn/; June 25, 1908 – December 25, 2000) (known to intimates as "Van") was an American philosopher and logician in the analytic tradition, recognized as "one of the most influential philosophers of the twentieth century." From 1930 until his death 70 years later, Quine was continually affiliated with Harvard University in one way or another, first as a student, then as a professor of philosophy and a teacher of logic and set theory, and finally as a professor emeritus who published or revised several books in retirement. He filled the Edgar Pierce Chair of Philosophy...

New Sandboxed Posts

12:31 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Transpose a text cloud code-golf string grid Background I wanted to make a pretty text cloud, like this: these are words floating I computed the (x,y)-coordinates of the first letter of each word, plugged them into my word cloud generator, and let it do its job. However, I ...

Eridan

Karel says hi

Aqua Tart

@NewSandboxedPosts Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but all you have to do is pad each row with spaces and then transpose the resulting 2D array

oh wait

Words not characters

@Zgarb Will input be rectangular? (i.e will each row be padded with spaces so that they are the same length)

Dennis

Why does Python evaluate the default values of named arguments when the function is defined...?

El'endia Starman

....why shouldn't it?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Because Python is weird.

El'endia Starman

12:39 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ JS is more so.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman JS is insane.

Aqua Tart

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ then why do you use it

Dennis

@El'endiaStarman I want to pass a function as default value to another function. Now I have to reorder them, or use a placeholder for the default value.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I appreciate insanity; my bro is.

El'endia Starman

@Dennis Hmm. How exactly are you doing that?

Aqua Tart

12:41 AM

Someone should post a question, I'm suddenly addicted to rep

Dennis

Also, you can't do this in Python.

def output(argument, end = '', transform = None):
	if transform == None:
		transform = stringify

@El'endiaStarman Like that, currently.

Aqua Tart

@Dennis Why did you use Julia?

RikerW

@AquaTart did you intend to get stuck with that name for 30 days?

Aqua Tart

@RikerW Yes.

El'endia Starman

@Dennis And what happens if transform = stringify is in the function definition?

RikerW

12:42 AM

lol okay

Aqua Tart

It's an anagram and a healthy breakfast treat

Dennis

@AquaTart Because I had a beautiful, recursive approach in Python, the was blemished by the fact that default arguments are evaluated when the function is defined.

Aqua Tart

@Dennis :/

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ergo Julia > Python

Dennis

@El'endiaStarman It yells at me that stringify isn't defined, because I define it after output.

Neil

12:43 AM

bah, I found two 153-byte solutions

El'endia Starman

@Dennis Ahhhh. Python is line-by-line interpreted.

I personally would reorder them.

RikerW

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Then why don't you use julia much?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@RikerW Just because 1 > 0 doesn't mean 1 is the greatest number.

Aqua Tart

Because all he knows is JS and he can't learn anything else because JS gives you terrible habits

5

It posseses you

Dennis

@El'endiaStarman I can't do that. s comes after o.

El'endia Starman

12:45 AM

....you're keeping them in alphabetical order? o.O

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AquaTart ಠ_ಠ

I know Python, Julia, some R.

Aqua Tart

But you'll never learn them fully

RikerW

@AquaTart Like we posessed Quill? Or is soul-stealing different?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Bye.

Aqua Tart

@RikerW This is more like brain-hijacking.

RikerW

12:46 AM

Okay.

Bai @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Geobits

I learned my habits with BASIC. That's why I use GOTO everywhere.

Aqua Tart

That was hilarious; on my screen he dropped and rejoined and dropped and rejoined...

It was like a never-ending stream of dragons

El'endia Starman

I just saw two Conors leave and one enter, with the net result that he left.

RikerW

@AquaTart Same.

Aqua Tart

I think I might have offended him :/

But it's true.

RikerW

12:47 AM

First thing wrong with this pic:

Ready?

Crap, I have levitation class at 25:131. Better set the alarm to 'cinnamon'.

Aqua Tart

The first panel is slightly larger than the others.

RikerW

lol

Really the first thing?

Aqua Tart

Yeah.

Geobits

The 72. Any decent clock can go to 13 hours.

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Well, my alarm clock must be indecent then.

Geobits

12:49 AM

I suppose it is :P

Aqua Tart

@El'endiaStarman ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

RikerW

lol

El'endia Starman

@AquaTart ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

RikerW

I started factoring 1372 hoping it was 2 cubes added. That seemed to make sense at the time.

Aqua Tart

@Geobits I learned my habits with Perl. That's why my code is beautiful /s

RikerW

12:50 AM

Oh, discord meetup in 9 minutes.

@AquaTart s/beautiful/aqua

TIL when somebody uses infinity as a figure of speech, don't ask whether it is countable.

Geobits

How else will you know if you don't ask?

RikerW

I know, right?

They don't appreciate my curiousity.

CURSE YOU IDIOTS

Geobits

Not asking is infinitely worse than asking.

RikerW

Countably? (i had to ask)

Geobits

Naturally ;)

Aqua Tart

12:54 AM

@Geobits hello i have a question how do you juic an infinit i tri for thirtee minut but no convergence

3

Geobits

tri langer

Aqua Tart

i tri until heat death of universe but no juic

RikerW

pls halp i tri not speek llik alex but no suces

hai @sp300

Sp3000

Hey

RikerW

AH NO avocad talk

Geobits

12:56 AM

@AquaTart heet deth not infintee

RikerW

must talk lik dis

@Geobits tru dat

Aqua Tart

@Geobits i know but i no longer have hands cannot juic

pls help

Geobits

i no hands two

Doorknob

I Have No Hands And I Must Juic

Sp3000

slowly walks away from the chatroom

7

RikerW

12:57 AM

i have you hands an mine to

wan dem bac now?

Geobits

Umm.... hi Sp3000!

Nothing's going on here at all.

El'endia Starman

we tri gradut fir fiv yr an no

bcse of dis

Doorknob

ONO

El'endia Starman

why

Eridan

It's because we still haven't been able to get any juice from that damn avocado

El'endia Starman

12:58 AM

wat is rong wid u ppl

Geobits

@Eridan wat is avocado?

Doorknob

@Geobits avodad is gren froot wit weird hard ting in midul

Geobits

i no avodad. i no avocad. i no no avocado.

Eridan

@Geobits avogdabadoo iz jusey adn hav jucei

Doorknob

avocado is rong way to sey avodad

Geobits

1:00 AM

oooooo

Eridan

avogyabbadabbadoo

Quill

@RikerW you could use the term won my affection

@Eridan FlintAvocads

Aqua Tart

@Eridan hahaha

@Doorknob Just out of sheer dumb curiosity, what are the avocads you get in Texas like?

Eridan

^ and do they have juic?

Quill

they wear cowboy hats and call you partner

Doorknob

1:04 AM

I have never eaten an avocado

>_>

Aqua Tart

@Doorknob Wow. that sucks

Eridan

@Doorknob Have you ever eaten an avocad?

Doorknob

avocad avodad avocado smae thang

Quill

octodad

Geobits

heven fourbid

Eridan

1:05 AM

Juic your avocad good ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Aqua Tart

Someone needs to overnight ship Doorknob an avocado and teach him how to eat it.

Geobits

@Doorknob How can you claim your life has meaning then?

Doorknob

I never said that

Quill

@AquaTart ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Aqua Tart

No seriously.

Geobits

1:06 AM

True... I guess you never did.

You've at least had guacamole, right? Not that it's the same thing, but...

Quill

Avocados aren't that good by themselves, but with nachos or toast... much better

Aqua Tart

I actually feel legitimately sad that while we're joking about avocads Doorknob has never had one

Doorknob

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Geobits

He's in Texas. They have them at Wal-Mart. He has no excuse except lack of will.

Quill

Aqua Tart

1:08 AM

@Quill You pit them slice them in half and eat them with lemon salt and a little pepper. Awsum

Geobits

Lemon salt....? Eww.

Just salt, tyvm

Aqua Tart

lemon, salt

not lemon salt

oxford-comma?

no avodad ono

> onion

1:09 AM

Oh... lemon and salt. Yea that sounds like it might work.

xnor

Aargh, can we please stop giving loads to upvotes to solutions that are just a series of built-ins doing exactly the operations the spec says? I don't like having to scroll down to see answers that actually implement some sort of algorithm themselves.

8

Quill

> Why would you make this yourself when you can just use jQuery's ...

Doorknob

i.stack.imgur.com/C0NEv.png <removing onebox because xnor actually said something important>

Quill

> how to dwarf an avocado tree

Geobits

I'd rather we start posting more challenges that aren't a simple series of builtins, but...

xnor

1:11 AM

I know it's cool that golfing language X has the right built-ins to make the solution really short, but do we really have to upvote every single such solution to the top?

Quill

Like the 99 bottles on the wall builtin

feersum

I disagree. I think golfing language X is not cool :)

Geobits

At least the name is golfy.

Sp3000

@xnor (Unrelated and belated, but now that you're on - what happened with ASCII art frame? I thought you had that in the sandbox?)

xnor

@Geobits I used to think so but I've taken a more sympathetic view for the challenge writers. There's challenges that are of a fair difficulty and give interesting solutions in many typical languages that are nevertheless reduced to build-ins by the every-increasing power of golf langs. Of course, there are way-too-trivial challenges, but it's not all of them.

Zgarb

1:14 AM

@AquaTart Yes it will.

xnor

@Sp3000 I abandoned it for being a near-dupe of lots of things. If you want to pick it up, go for it.

Aqua Tart

@Zgarb Oh awsum that makes it easier

You should probably clarify that

Sp3000

@xnor No I mean, I was slightly sad to see this posted: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/73296/… considering you had it ages back

Geobits

@xnor Yea, and I understand that point of view. I think I see a higher ratio of "simple" ones now though. I don't know if it's because of the question/day push lately, or maybe I've just gotten better at spotting them.

When I pass over a bunch because they're mostly builtins in Java, those are the ones I mean.

Aqua Tart

@xnor Do you have a specific example? Usually the kind of questions I see are trivial regardless of language

Sp3000

1:16 AM

@Geobits I'm pretty sure it's not just you, and I hope it's not because people are trying to raise QPD :/

xnor

@AquaTart This was the one that reminded me of it, since answers decompose it quite cleanly into factor, count, filter, take n'th

Aqua Tart

@Sp3000 I don't think it is. I think it's more that hard challenges aren't getting upvoted and go ignored

Doorknob

I've definitely noticed that my easier challenges are a lot more likely to get more votes than harder challenges

xnor

@Doorknob and even more, answers

Aqua Tart

@xnor Ah didnt notice that challenge.

xnor

1:18 AM

@AquaTart it's just an example, I could remember more

The identity matrix is another one. You could say it's too easy but I had an interesting python solution.

Zgarb

@AquaTart Done.

Sp3000

@xnor I'd like to see it :)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I keep on reading "Aqua Tart" as "Aqua Fart" ._.

xnor

@Sp3000 it's the one I posted with zip/iter: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/70415/20260

a lot of the top answers are literally just calling an identity matrix built-in ...

Sp3000

@AquaTart That's probably true as well, which is a shame. I guess easier questions get more answers and hence get bumped up more often, which might have caused a skew in my perception of how many such questions there are

@xnor Ah yes, I did see that one - rare nice use of that trick :)

xnor

1:22 AM

@Sp3000 i think there's an accidental unholy alliance between golfing langs, FGITW, and HNQ

4

Sp3000

... that sounds about right :P

xnor

or, easy challenges can stand in for golfing langs

Doorknob

"unholy alliance" is a nice way of putting it :P

Sp3000

"unholy trinity"

Geobits

heretic triad?

Sp3000

1:24 AM

@xnor (Nobody else answered same color? :( )

xnor

@Sp3000 nope

congrats though, your answer was great!

Sp3000

:/

xnor

I haven't had a chance to analyse it carefully yet

the *L trick though, dang

Sp3000

:) glad you liked it, just kinda wished winning at Python didn't always equate to being the only solution :P

xnor

i think the key is having a solution that's so golfed that nobody else bothers trying to beat it

or, at least, they don't feel like their answer is close enough to post

RikerW

1:26 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ same.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

\o/

Sp3000

Hmm k

Doorknob

97/100 to Socratic \o/

Geobits

Ask and ye shall receive.

RikerW

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ your about me on your blog is out of date. I think you mentioned you got a stylus?

Doorknob

1:28 AM

@Geobits Well, I can only get the remaining 3 by posting 3 more questions

xnor

what would people think if intentionally kept a challenge I write off of HNQ by putting in a unicode character or something?

Doorknob

which is 6 days

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@RikerW Oh, let me check

Doorknob

@xnor I don't think that does it, but why?

Sp3000

@xnor Can you do that?

Doorknob

1:29 AM

IIRC only MathJax and <offensive word list> prevents HNQage

Geobits

@Doorknob I know. Hence ask :P

xnor

@Doorknob Oh, my mistake

Doorknob

@Geobits ohhh, hahaha, that totally went over my head

Sp3000

(also, if it's your challenge xnor and it's not that trivial, it probably deserves to be on HNQ :P)

xnor

@Doorknob i'd feel better posting easy challenges if I thought I could get better quality by not having HNQ vote effects

Doorknob

1:30 AM

:/

49

Q: Prevent questions on Hot List from being upvoted by casual visitors (only rep is from association bonus)

I have experienced this on a couple of sites (and I'm not the only one) : You look through the question list. You see a pretty bad (or at least not-so-good) question heavily upvoted. Or even worse, a very poor answer to a good question - upvoted to stratosphere. Or even worse, a very poor/inc...

feature-request up-votes hot-questions bonus-reputation

37

Q: The association bonus should not enable users to vote on every site

The number of upvotes for a question is a flawed measure of question quality, one particular issue is that the amount of exposure a question gets matters a lot. Questions that were linked in the hot questions list tend to get an enormous amount of votes, much more than any questions gets organica...

feature-request status-declined voting hot-questions bonus-reputation

^ you may want to express your support for these

Aqua Tart

@xnor That would be an interesting experiment to see how it affects votes

xnor

@Doorknob I've voted for them and think the existing answers cover my views.

Doorknob

nods

RikerW

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ okay, that works. :p

xnor

@Doorknob and, of course, I've seen it be worse on Puzzling

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:32 AM

XD

RikerW

o-)

Aqua Tart

I have wanted to do an experiment with a pop con where people cannot see the vote counts but I cannot figure out how to organize it without mod intervention :p

Doorknob

how would you even organize it with mod intervention

El'endia Starman

I dunno how you would do it with mod intervention...

Doorknob

ninja'd

El'endia Starman

1:33 AM

...semi-ninja'd. :P

Doorknob

ninja'd your ninja'd

Aqua Tart

lock all the answers but not the question

Doorknob

... which would prevent voting on the answers

Aqua Tart

then vote through another service

El'endia Starman

And edits.

Doorknob

1:34 AM

and comments

RikerW

Maybe how many suggested edits for each answer?

Doorknob

wat

RikerW

Though users with 1k+ rep could see that.

Aqua Tart

@El'endiaStarman Oh that prevents edits? hm.

RikerW

IDK WAHT I SAId

El'endia Starman

1:35 AM

@AquaTart Why would you want to do that anyway?

RikerW

> experiment

FUNNESS ABOUNDS

Aqua Tart

Because I highly suspect that with pop cons once an anwer gets upvotes it never stops getting them even if a better answer comes up

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

I think answers in general.

Aqua Tart

I see it happen all the time. First slightly creative post wins basically

xnor

sometimes even first not-at-all creative post

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:37 AM

FIRST

Aqua Tart

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ with popcons it is especially problematic because that's the winning criteria

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

right

Sp3000

@xnor This.

100

A: Paint Starry Night, objectively, in 1kB of code

Mathematica, score 14125.71 "a.png"~Export~ConstantImage[{75,91,110}/256,{386,320}] Simply saves this image: to a.png.

^^ GOLD BADGE WHY

xnor

@Sp3000 exactly what I was thinking of :-)

Aqua Tart

Exactly. That answer sucks and look at it

I'm sure it got a million votes from HNQ too

feersum

1:39 AM

stack exchange sucks let's code up our own site without shitty rules it'll be wonderful lololol

Aqua Tart

no but I'm saying we should try to push the boundaries of the software a bit

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^^

:P

@Riker feel free to steal the fitbit.

Sp3000

@xnor :( probably the most jealousy-inducing recent answer I can think of. I mean, it's a good baseline solution, but I didn't think it'd deserve that much attention

Anonymous

I still think it's invalid by the "minimal effort" rule

Anonymous

But apparently I'm (mostly) alone in that opinion

feersum

1:42 AM

Instead of trying to make the rabble appreciate fine art or whatever, you guys should unlink your emotional well-beings from votes.

Anonymous

The idea of SE is that more effort and better quality gets rewarded with votes

Dennis

@Mego You're not alone.

Aqua Tart

It's not good for site health. It generates a "lololol gotta go fast" atmosphere.

Anonymous

That's a 0 effort, low quality answer that got votes, which is very very wrong

Downgoat

that answer was the reason I proposed this loophole:

2

A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Empty / Bare Output Not sure on the best title but hopefully the examples show what I mean. Mainly targeting code-challenges where the score is determined by the output. This results in very boring, but valid, answers which tend to get upvoted especially on pop-cons with no other answers. An ...

Aqua Tart

1:44 AM

It's even nastier for pop cons when you end up with a low quality answer that wins.

xnor

I have a crazy idea specifically for an issue with voting on golfing languages, that you want to upvote the language creator for having the foresight to include a useful built-in that allows a short solution, but not the solution that uses it. What if we had a pop-con for "make a golfing language" where lang creators post their language so that people can vote for that?

trichoplax

That kind of exists on meta, where rep doesn't count

feersum

@xnor Too many golfing languages? Encourage more of them to be created... great idea

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Visualize long addition with ASCII art Totally not inspired by Visualize long division with ASCII art ;) Your job is to show long hand addition with ASCII art. [complete write-up coming] Examples 50, 50 1 50 +50 --- 100 1651, 9879 1111 1651 +9879 ----- 11530 Sandbox notes: Should I ...