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8:23 AM
Hi, I have a question related to the axiom of extensionality, why is it expressed with a simple conditional, and not using a biconditional, if I have two equal sets, I cannot imply that they have the same objects?
 
8:35 AM
@JuanJesús The axiom of extensionality you refer to states that $$\forall_{x, y} ((\forall_z z\in x \iff z\in y ) \implies x = y)$$
 
@JuanJesús I think the other implication follows from the axioms of formal logic. (Basically in any reasonable system you're using.)
If a=b, then formulas φ(a) and φ(b) are equivalent. (Here φ(a)≡z∈a.)
 
Equivalence that is $$\forall_{x, y} ((\forall_z z\in x \iff z\in y)\iff x = y)$$ follows from logic. If $x, y$ are such that $x = y$, then given $z$, in the formula $z\in x$ we can substitute $x$ for $y$ to obtain $z\in y$. And conversely, we can substitute $y$ for $x$ in the formula $z\in y$ to obtain $z\in x$.
 
Wikipedia article says: "The converse, $\forall A \, \forall B \, (A = B \implies \forall X \, (X \in A \iff X \in B) )$, of this axiom follows from the substitution property of equality.
 
 
5 hours later…
1:53 PM
@Jakobian Yes
@MartinSleziak Mmm, how can you use that principle to derive the contraposition of the axiom?
 
2:46 PM
@JuanJesús Basically what I wrote above - and what Jakobian wrote in detail.
6 hours ago, by Martin Sleziak
If a=b, then formulas φ(a) and φ(b) are equivalent. (Here φ(a)≡z∈a.)
6 hours ago, by Jakobian
Equivalence that is $$\forall_{x, y} ((\forall_z z\in x \iff z\in y)\iff x = y)$$ follows from logic. If $x, y$ are such that $x = y$, then given $z$, in the formula $z\in x$ we can substitute $x$ for $y$ to obtain $z\in y$. And conversely, we can substitute $y$ for $x$ in the formula $z\in y$ to obtain $z\in x$.
Of course, if you meant formal proof in some deductive system (like Hilbert system or something similar), that would be more work.
 

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