ELL's Cabin

I'm on the first semesters of 3 in a course to prepare me to FCE exam by a recognized English school on my country. I want to have a certificate to work and study on another countries. What would be better? To take the PET exam that is the one behind FCE and do my best to get A or do the FCE in t...

learning

I voted to close it too.

But on second thought, I wonder if we should keep it.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. The problem is, not all questions can be asked on ELL.

Damkerng T.

That's true too. Still...

user116848

Morning all.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Afternoon!

user116848

9:25 AM

I have a small question. MA around?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes.

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M But we can choose to leave a question like that open right? I mean others can cast close votes when they see it in their review queue. There is nothing wrong in doing that right?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Sparsely.

@Arrowfar Nothing wrong, we can put it up on meta and open it exceptionally.

user116848

I mean only "close votes" shows a person's name right?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But any question like that we leave open adds to the chance that we'll be flooded with questions like that in the future.

@Arrowfar So do delete votes.

user116848

9:27 AM

Yeah I know, I used that question as an example.

user116848

Because I was reviewing and thought I'd stop by and pick someone's mind :)

user116848

I want an Electorate badge but it is hard to come by. Lots of responsibility.

user116848

Also people get pissed when their question gets closed. So I was reluctant.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

People get pissed all the time for different reasons.

Damkerng T.

2:07 PM

1

A: When not to use because in a sentence

'Because' is redundant. It lets the reader know that the next part of the sentence is the reason for the previous part, but the subject of the sentence is already identified as 'the reason', so it's unnecessary. Including both sounds stilted, and is officially incorrect (though many people find...

@MrTheWalrus The last paragraph gave me a good laugh!

MrTheWalrus

I'm glad I could entertain.

Damkerng T.

I love this kind of humor! :D

MrTheWalrus

I always feel a bit silly converting other people's comments into answers, and this one was even more so than usual, since it was your comment about another answer that linked to another article.

Damkerng T.

It's fine with me. I was a little busy with something when the OP's Thanks comment came up. I wonder how I could sum up the information on ELU into a short post. Fortunately, you've done that nicely. Thanks!

user62015

5:23 PM

Hi! @DamkerngT. @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Damkerng T.

Hi!

user62015

How is going?

@DamkerngT. How is going?

Damkerng T.

How is it going? Okay, I think. :-)

How are you?

user62015

5:38 PM

I am good. Thanks.

I was busy so couldn't be here.

I have one question for you?

Damkerng T.

What is it?

user62015

Children enjoy listening to (A) ghosts stories (B) especially on Halloween night (C) No error (D)

We need to find the error?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... ghosts stories?

user62015

I also thought same but it says A

Damkerng T.

Because?

user62015

5:43 PM

It says we shouldn't use enjoy and listening together?

I am confused.

Damkerng T.

It's indeed a little awkward, but I don't think it's wrong per se.

ghosts stories is more problematic, imo.

user62015

Yes.

Thanks for your answer.

And help.

I appreciate it a lot.

One more?

Damkerng T.

> google.com/search?q=%22enjoy+listening+to%22&tbm=bks <-- lots of "enjoy listening to" in there.

@user62015 You could also try asking it on the main too.

@user62015 I'm doing something else too, sorry.

user62015

sURE.

Sure.

Thanks for your time.

I will post on the main website.

Damkerng T.

Good! :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

6:31 PM

@user62015 Hullo!

user62015

Hi@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

How is going?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. \o

@user62015 Awesome!

user62015

Great.

I have posted a question on this website. I would love to know your view on it.

0

Q: Error in "Children enjoy listening to ghosts stories especially on Halloween night"?

I have been preparing (in India) for a competition exam for a few months. I was solving a book but got something which didn't make any sense to me. I have written a sentence below and we need to find the error in the sentence. The error I found it shows wrong and the answer it shows it's not maki...

grammar british-english error

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@user62015 I think to avoid closure you need to say why you think the book's answer is weird.

The site is stricter than chat, as it should be.

But +1 for a good title anyway.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M o/

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

6:41 PM

@DamkerngT. Today was a busy day at chem.

More precisely, it was TRE.

Damkerng T.

What's TRE?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Wrong link.

12

Q: The Great Retagging Event - Episode 1: The one-taggers

I'm about to set the first event to start this Friday. If you're inconvenient with the time, let me know. I might change the time, or even the day of the start. The event has been $\color{red}{set}$; to 15:30 UTC and will last for 90 minutes. See you there! $\color{green}{\text{May this be a f...

discussion featured tags retagging chat-event

Anonymous

8:51 PM

@user62015 I think your book is wrong. It's pretty much always ghost stories, never ghosts stories, so that part doesn't really work. On the other hand, enjoy listening is just fine!

tchrist

11:23 PM

@snailboat Attributive nouns are “never” plural.

Anonymous

I like the quotes there! They give me plenty of room to point out that attributive nouns are often plural! :-)

Anonymous

That's one of the many reasons it's helpful to distinguish attributive adjectives, which of course never have plural forms, being adjectives, from attributive nouns.

tchrist

I'm verging on disbelieving.

Anonymous

Nixon's enemies list. People rarely say Nixon's enemy list.

Anonymous

Why? Just 'cause. People said it that way, and it spread.

Anonymous

11:26 PM

Of course, it's true that it used to be the case that attributive plurals were rare.

Anonymous

Or entirely ungrammatical, perhaps?

tchrist

I think it still is.

Show me some run-of-the-mill examples of men used attributively instead of man.

Anonymous

But as Quirk et al. 1985 say on page 1333, "the plural attributive construction is on the increase", and you can find millions of examples.

Anonymous

Oh, no. They're not interchangeable with attributive singulars.

Anonymous

We still expect attributive nouns to be singular most of the time.

Anonymous

11:27 PM

Also, plurals are more common in BrE than AmE.

tchrist

?

Anonymous

What is a systems analyst?

Anonymous

Is it something people don't say, because they all know system analyst is what sounds correct?

Anonymous

Systems analyst

A systems analyst is an IT professional who specializes in analyzing, designing and implementing information systems. Systems analysts assess the suitability of information systems in terms of their intended outcomes and liaise with end users, software vendors and programmers in order to achieve these outcomes. A systems analyst is a person who uses analysis and design techniques to solve business problems using information technology. Systems analysts may serve as change agents who identify the organizational improvements needed, design systems to implement those changes, and train and motivate...

tchrist

Try children instead of child seat or children’s park.

Anonymous

11:29 PM

What is a parks department? An examinations board? The heavy chemicals industry? The British Museum Prints and Drawings Gallery?

Anonymous

Scotland Yard's Obscene Publications Squad?

tchrist

Hold on.

When you use an adjective to modify the plural attributive noun, it changes how the pieces fit together.

(heavy chemicals) is one thing.

They have an industry.

Anonymous

An Arts degree? A customs officer? A goods train? A soft drinks manufacturer? An appointments officer?

tchrist

You’re quoting somebody else. :)

Anonymous

Yes, strictly speaking the construction is one in which the head noun of an attributive nominal is marked as plural.

Anonymous

11:31 PM

Why, yes! Quirk et al 1985, page 1333 :-)

Anonymous

Anyway, it's a change in the language. It's relatively new, in the scheme of things.

tchrist

Seems unwise to give out free passes to things most native speakers consider ungrammatical.

Anonymous

But lots of native speakers find the examples above to be perfectly fine.

Anonymous

Certainly in my dialect there's nothing wrong with any of them.

tchrist

As can you.

And certainly I can give a hundred other examples where you cannot do that.

It's the signature of someone who doesn't know the language to create things native speakers find ungrammatical.

I worked on a *pigs farm.

Anonymous

11:34 PM

Sure, and I think that sounds ungrammatical, too.

Anonymous

I think most of the time we do not expect plural marking on the head nouns of attributive nominals.

tchrist

In speech it would be misparsable, so we don't say it.

Anonymous

There are some semantic and syntactic motivations for doing so in the cases where people do use them. At least, a lot of the time there are. Sometimes, like in Nixon's enemies list, I can't think of one.

tchrist

It is not a pig’s farm, but you cannot tell that in speech.

So you don’t say the confusing thing.

People keep grocery lists, not groceries lists.

Anonymous

Right. So how was enemies list able to enter the vocabularies of English speakers? corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=39608533

Anonymous

11:37 PM

A few people change it to enemy list because they're uncomfortable with enemies list.

Anonymous

But most people keep on saying the latter.

Anonymous

The corpus data supports it as a legitimate construction, but the question of how to describe when it's possible and when it isn't is a very difficult one!

tchrist

I think you are wakier than I.

Anonymous

I just had a lot of caffeine, actually.

tchrist

It shows. :)

Anonymous

11:41 PM

Ah, I apologize―I tend to get this way :-)

tchrist

It's going on 10 maybe 11 hours since my last.

Anonymous