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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 23:00

12:02 AM
It's funny to see that Bill Bailey has hardly changed at all in 30 years time.
time to go
 
12:26 AM
Quick: this is a test. What does Intersection[{2, 2, 3, 3}, {2, 3}] give?
 
The last argument?
 
What's the trick there? I expected that/
 
12:47 AM
Depends on whether you assume it's going for unique elements or just elements
What does Complement[{2, 2, 3, 3}, {2, 3}] give?
 
{}
 
nothingat all
@Sjoerd all these functions work on "sets", meaning they always give a sorted result with duplicates removed
 
Actually I was looking for a function that would take out elements from one list mentioned in a second one, but not more than the ones named in the second. I hoped that Complement would have an option to do that
 
Quick: this is a test. What does If[Abs[#3-#2]<=#4,(#3-#2) #1[(#2+#3)/2],#0[#1,#2,(#2+#3)/2,#4]+#0[#1,(#2+#3)/2,#3,#4]]&[# #&,0,1,10] give?
 
urrrr...
 
12:54 AM
@Sjoerd DIdn't you ask that once on MG? Or was it someone else?
 
Idon't recall(but that doesn't say anything)
 
BRB, gnome is acting up
 
comp[a_, b_] := Module[{hh},
  hh = Dispatch@Thread[b -> Sequence[]];
  a /. hh
  ]
@SjoerdCdeVries see above
this is my sleepy 3 AM solution
 
2AM here. Not sleepy, but thisain't healthy
 
@SjoerdCdeVries correctly it should be a Replace, not a /. , to deal with elements that are lists themselves
 
12:58 AM
Nice one, but too long. I waslooking at mrwiz's code golf question
 
comp[a_, b_] := Module[{hh},
  hh = Dispatch@Thread[b -> Sequence[]];
  Replace[a, hh, {1}]
  ]
oh I didn't look ...
 
@Szabolcs Oh, yeah, Dispatch[]. Definitely important for long lists of rules...
 
I'll try to remember this one
 
@RolfMertig so you're not in the europe timezone? or you're a nightowl too?
:)
 
Also I have been staring like hours at Flatten's fourth syntax variant. I'm getting old. I do not seem to be able to make a mental image of what it does.
 
1:00 AM
@SjoerdCdeVries I asked that question in private beta
Let me look for the thread
12
Q: Flatten command: matrix as second argument

DavidOne thing I could never wrap my head around is how Flatten works when provided with a matrix as the second argument, and the Mathematica help isn't particularly good on this one. Taken from the Flatten help page in Mathematica 8: Flatten[list, {{s11, s12, ...}, {s21, s22, ...}, ...}] "Flatten...

 
@Szabolcs I am in Berlin. But got up late. My son is sicck ...
 
@David: when I try to used the command that was posted earlier to ImageMultiply yoda's avatar, the green rectangle is never big enough. It is as if there were some unwanted clipping going on.
 
I am sorry about that
I hope he gets better soon!
 
BTW: I think nobody with little kids should be mod...
 
Why? He can moderate all night
 
1:02 AM
good night all, must force myself to bed
 
good night.
 
acl
@SjoerdCdeVries for example, Flatten[lst,{{i},{j}}] interchanges levels i and j
 
@David Itmust have stuck in an unconscious part of my brain
 
@David yes, but only if the kids do not have to get up early ...
 
1:03 AM
@RolfMertig Or if they're <1 and wake you up at night
 
@acl According to the docs it is related to Transpose. I fail to see how it honors its namethat way
 
It's like Transpose, just that it works for non-rectangular lists
You can't transpose {1,{2,3}}, but you can flat-pose it.
 
acl
@SjoerdCdeVries try this
mat = {{a}, {b, c}, {c, d, e}};
mat
Flatten[mat, {{2}, {1}}]
write out mat with one list on each line
the result of Flatten[blah] is simply reading downwards rather than rightwards
 
got to go too. Bye all!
 
Bye
 
acl
1:06 AM
see you
 
I am not sure if software-engineering (taste) questions should also be asked . E.g., is anybody using git in WWB ? I only got it to install when using the WWB-eclipse-plugin (i.e. with eclipse 3.7.1). Or, another one: Is it easier to explain CVS, svn or git to an engineer or phycisist using Mathematica?
Slaap lekker Sjoerd!
 
Was that a joke or do you really say "sleep tasty" in your languate?
 
@David no joke. it is just dutch and means "good night", but kind of translates to "sleep tasty", yes. dutch language is nice!
 
Dutch was nice until I spent a lot of time with dutch people. I got so used to it it didn't sound funny anymore.
On the other side, they told me German sounds funny to them. Win-win :-)
 
acl
it is especially amusing to speak dutch to germans (because you don't actually speak german and they don't speak english). especially seeing their expressions
 
1:13 AM
It's really confusing to hear sometimes yes
Sounds like you understand it, but you don't
 
acl
@RolfMertig about the taste questions. I am not sure what sort of useful answer one could obtain like this (the second one for instance).
@David no, people do understand me. then again I interpret what they say as dutch, and my dutch is, at best, bad. so...
 
@yoda: when I try to use the command that was posted earlier to ImageMultiply your avatar, the green rectangle is never big enough. It is as if there were some unwanted clipping going on.
sorry for the duplication :-)
 
@robjohn yeah, I didn't bother to correct that... I just cropped it out in gravatar :)
but I guess if you wanted to, you could use ImageDimensions on the gravatar and feed that to the rectangle appropriately
 
I tried setting the rectangle size much larger, and it stayed small :-(
 
BTW: we could ask ruebenko (Oliver Ruebenkoenig) as moderator. Not sure he will do it, but last time I talked to him he had no kids. AND: He is really very very good (o.k., he works for WRI, but that can only be good I think).
And he is usually in Germany.
off to be bed now. by everybody.
 
1:24 AM
@RolfMertig 'night
 
@robjohn Interesting... you're right, I didn't notice that
 
@yoda How did you get yours all the way to the edges?
 
@robjohn I didn't...
20 mins ago, by yoda
@robjohn yeah, I didn't bother to correct that... I just cropped it out in gravatar :)
took the lazyman's route :)
 
But your gravatar has stuff that is past the edges of what appears when I execute the command: `Binarize[Import[
"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/64eb54939201cd78d919a3959aeb417d?s=\
512"], .3]~ImageMultiply~
Graphics[{RGBColor[0, 2/3, 0], Rectangle[{0, 0}, {512, 512}]}]`
I could use another program to do the colorization, but that is cheating :-)
 
1:41 AM
Adding an Image@ before Graphics[...] helps...
From what I see, the Graphics[] object lives inside its own coordinate system and not the image's
 
@yoda That shrunk the rectangle smaller :-)
 
and the white edges are surely some padding applied by Graphics
ok.. so I figured out. The white area corresponds to the frame applied by Graphics. Although it is absent, the space it would've occupied is left white. You can see it by setting Frame->True
 
Aha
 
I tend to do the cropping after uploading, out of laziness.
 
alright, got to leave now. will be back later
 
1:54 AM
See ya.
 
This works `Binarize[Import[
"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/64eb54939201cd78d919a3959aeb417d?s=\
512"], .3]~ImageMultiply~
Image[Graphics[{RGBColor[0, 2/3, 0], Rectangle[{0, 0}, {512, 512}]}],
ImageSize -> 540]`
 
@Heike That's hysterical.
@Heike I think: bob, bob, bobbing along.
 
 
4 hours later…
5:42 AM
@RebeccaChernoff is TL visible on your chat profile "rooms" list only from TL?
 
5:54 AM
When I want to search for posts of a specific user, the search faq says "user:12324". Where do I got the user-number, because user:"Leonid Shifrin" does not work..
 
@halirutan go to the user's profile page and get the ID from the url
 
ahh, very intuitive. Thank you very much.
 
alternately, if you go to their profile, the search field is already auto filled with user:x.. so if you want to search for anything by that user, just need to type the search terms
 
btw, now I see it. When you click a user-profile the id is in the search box.
;-)
 
:)
 
6:07 AM
Lotsa smiles :-)
 
It's just funny at 7o'clock in the morning without sleep ;-)
 
6:22 AM
Inside the code is it possible to use the backtick itself? I tried backslashing it, but that does not work
Ups, I wanted to write <backtick>code<backtick>
Ah, ok. You have to use the html-tags <code>blub</code>
 
or you can use double backticks to start your inline code.
for example, <<Blah`
 
Ah, I tried double backticks to make one backtick which didn't work.
 
I think a space needs to follow the backtick if it's the last character, but not if it's in the middle somewhere
ok... now how do I demonstrate how to include backticks using backticks without messing up the backticks :P
 
6:38 AM
to backtick or not to backtick, that's the ..
 
 
2 hours later…
8:22 AM
Man, Texture[] is a very useful thing...
...my experiment went so well that I just had to write about it.
 
Leonid is in Europe too.
 
8:45 AM
 
Why is there a plateau?
 
@JM where?
 
@Szabolcs There's a flat section in the graph. :)
 
@JM end of private beta, of course ...
 
@JM That's the private beta
@Szabolcs snap :)
It's funny, I'd just run the notebook before logging on
I think the second one is quite interesting. Declines in the right-hand panel during the private beta as people followed to be informed when the public beta started, and picking up now. Also some committers only registered with the site once the public beta started.
 
8:59 AM
@Verbeia Why isn't the follower conversion rate monotonous?
it drops at some points
 
@Szabolcs "Monotonic", you mean. :)
("monotonous" is "boring")
 
OK, monotonic
 
@Szabolcs as mentioned - there were people still following for the first tim during the private beta, so that they'd be informed when the public beta started. The denominator rose from about 90 to 111 during that time.
 
@JM Thanks! In my language the two words sound the same.
 
9:13 AM
there are a couple of users who are very close to avid user status.
I will be offline for much of this weekend - urgent family visit
In the meantime
Our good performance on follower conversion is partly an artefact of our speed to beta - and partly because most followers committed. This hasn't been true for many other betas.
 
 
3 hours later…
12:01 PM
We need 18 more questions today or our average will go down...
 
@SjoerdCdeVries Our problem seems to be that we have too many experts and not enough beginners :-)
 
@magma More advertisements. Bring in your friends and colleagues
 
I only know "experts", so it would not help :-)
 
Any newsgroups, social networking sites, twitter...?
I don't do FB, but I have tweeted, LinkedIn and reditted
 
@SjoerdCdeVries I am thinking of asking some other "basic" question about best-practices like my "Functions with options" and "Error checking"
 
12:09 PM
@magma Perhaps something about packages?
Or working with the workbench (I don't but I should)
 
yes, perhaps, always a popular theme :-)
@SjoerdCdeVries I am using workbench and I have questions
....but no time to ask them :-)
 
arrrghh
yes, you do have time
Do you really need to eat or sleep?
 
I really doubt we can keep the question rate
It might go back to that rate in the long term
 
I'm hoping for 15
 
but in the short term I think it'll drop. SO had 6-7 questions per day on average
 
12:13 PM
The potential of MMA.SE is higher than that
 
If we stabilize on a rate of 8-10 during the next two weeks, I'll be very happy (clearly more successful than SO)
0
A: What would be a good community promotion ad?

SzabolcsAs you said, if we are going to promote the site, we might need a preliminary logo. I didn't post about this yet (I thought it was too soon---we just got out of private beta!), but my idea for a site logo was using a spikey: We can have a spikey-design contest to create a special logo for thi...

Anyone up for spikey making? :-)
 
I know it's recognizable but there are two counterarguments: TM and boredom
TM probably not as the old Greeks were earlier
Hi @Verbeia!
 
Hi Sjoerd just checking in before going to bed. It has been a long day.
 
@Sjoerd What is TM?
 
trademark
 
12:17 PM
@Szabolcs @Szabolcs yes, but we can accept more types of questions
@SjoerdCdeVries Exactly
 
@Sjoerd I specifically talked about that --- if should not be identical to any existing logo. It should just be recognizable, i.e. based on a dodecahedron or an icosahedron. They can't trademark a hyperbolic dodecahedron in general, they can only trademark a single finished image.
 
perhaps you can TM a hyperbolic dodecahedron in the context of a product?
I know a company who has trademarked a color in connection to its domain. No other network operator may use this particular tint of color in its house style
 
I am sure we do not need to stick to that. we could be a bit more creative
why dodecahedrons?
anything goes
as long as it is a MMA imange
 
@Sjoerd So if they change the R value in its RGB description by 1%, then the colour is safe to use? :D
It will not be identical to the original
These sound ridiculous to me
Of course, anything goes. It was just an idea
Especially for the final site design, anything goes
 
making a "claim" in a trademark is one thing, having it enforced in a court of law is another
 
12:23 PM
but this advertisement should at least say that it is a Mathematica site, right? And the word Mathematica is a trademark too.
 
especially with patents, but I guess also in trademarks
 
Also I expect WRI is freindly to us, so as long as we don't use something that looks like a copy of an existing logo, it should be fine
 
My suggestion would be to use the sillouette of a spikey to denote accepted answers, the way the stats.SE uses a bell curve
 
@Szabolcs we will/should write Mathematica TM (or R)
 
@Verbeia great idea
 
12:25 PM
but perhaps this is implied use with the SE site rules
 
@magma yes but Stack Inc will not want to takete legal risk
 
@Szabolcs I assume they allow for a minimal detectable color difference
 
@Verbeia what about a Hyp dodecahedron witha question mark over it?
 
Take the legal risk
 
If like the idea and make spikies, then if it looks like a copy, I agree, it's boring. It should be creative and as different as possible, while having some recognizable element too. I thin the one on verbeia.com reminds of Mathematica, even though it's not even a dodecahedron or icosahedron
 
12:27 PM
@Szabolcs How about apple hijacking the lowercase 'i'?
 
Anyway good night all
 
@magma To my own amazement this has been enforced
good night
 
@Sjoerd Of course that kind of thing is ugly, I didn't suggest anything like that :P
 
good night
and good afternoon
 
Like those PUNA shoes made in China (want to resemble puma.com ), this kind of thing creates a bad impression
 
12:31 PM
Hi Heike
 
Hi sjoerd
 
Could you cough up a few questions?
 
I've been trying to think of some.
 
Flow is low today
 
But of most questions I come up with I feel they're either too specific, or a bit trivial
 
12:33 PM
It helps if you e-thumb through the doc centre
 
I have questions myself, but formulating them precisely is troublesome...
 
Perhaps we can use a few unanswered questions from the mathgroup
 
that would be an option.
 
I think there's no need to push it
Let's see if my sig from MG bears some fruit
messages went out less than an hour ago
 
Aren't you afraid RobertC is going to kill this a second time
 
12:35 PM
It's not only the question volume that matters
also growth
 
Should we start building a FAQ?
 
user numbers are going up steadily
 
3
Q: What should our FAQ contain?

rcollyerWe've talked about here and there pieces of this, but what should go in our FAQ? What do you think needs to mentioned in our FAQ? Obviously, what is considered on-topic/off-topic, and quite possibly a number of items from this list. But, we should start making progress on this question. (This is...

 
oh, I missed that one
 
and did you consider this?
7
Q: Who should our moderators be?

rcollyerAs we have entered public beta, it will soon become apparent that we need more moderator attention than can be given by the SE mods that have accounts here. We already have two users who have access to the moderator tools, and possibly one or two more soon, which helps quite a bit. But, we will ...

SO far J.M. and MrWiz have stepped forward
 
12:38 PM
I've seen that one, but I don't think I would be the right type for that.
 
Who would be?
 
What about you?
 
@SjoerdCdeVries He wouldn't dare...
 
haha
reversed psychology...
 
Right now I really can't commit to such a thing. I can't promise I'll be here every day.
 
12:39 PM
same here, though in practice...
 
Two months from now I'd take it, but today not.
 
actually, I'm at home know. My wife has a pneumonia.But otherwise I wouldn't be here at this time
 
At the moment this site doesn't seem to need much moderating
 
Oh ... I hope she gets better fast. Pneumonia is really nasty.
 
@heike That's right, and you can always resign I guess
@szabolcs My oldest son just recovered from the same thing
 
12:42 PM
Yeah, this site's members are pretty close-knit, it looks, so the moderation is minimal for now...
 
We'll see what happens when we have 1000 users. Now it's ~250
 
We had this strange guy in commitment phase
 
the one of the math.SE chat?
 
Don't even mention him ... it would be a nightmare to have someone like that even if it's a Mathematica enthusiast
 
yes, that's the one
 
12:44 PM
I've read the transcript. At the end he reminded me of my 5 year old nephew
 
there's another one on mathgroup, linkedin and yahoo
 
At time time I was thinking, what if the site launches, and we get people like that ... ?
@Sjoerd From linkedin?
 
the mathematica group there. He posts a lot there.
 
I remember from MathGroup, seemed rather harmless, but then MG is moderated
wanted to start separate forums too at one time
 
He posts a lot of off-topic maths
 
12:46 PM
There are some other peculiar people on the mathgroup mailing list
 
I haven't been there much the last year
is this a new one?
haha
he's having some quarrels with some of WRI old hands, I believe
 
I don't think they could cause much trouble here
 
No, downvote and flag them I'd say
(if they cause trouble, of course)
and always be kind.
Ilike the general tone in this group
Right, I noticed that
 
There is one guy on mathgroup at the moment who would definitely crank up the average questions per day
 
As long as they are good...
 
12:50 PM
Well, if you think we should have them over, write a private reply and mention the site
 
The number of questions has to match the number of regulars here
We can't use a flood of unanswered and unanswerable questions
Neither too much of the "what does /@ do?" questions
 
I think I know who she means
I have a number of questions now, but they are not really good ones
Right now I'd like to know if it's possible to have LinkRead have a timeout
I think it is, I'd need to dig into sakra's Remote Kernel Strategies package, as I seem to recall seeing something like that there ... but too lazy now :)
Good questions take time, one needs time to try to come up with solutions first
 
I tried to cover a few areas that would be more or less off-topic on SO. Perhaps we would need a few more
 
and also LinkWrite
 
Although,how's the Ubuntu/font kerning question doing? It feels like we don't have the expertise to cover that currently
 
12:56 PM
I can reproduce the problem, which means it's not specific to his machine, but it's either an Ubuntu problem or a general Linux problem
tbh I gave up on Mma on Ubuntu, every new version of Ubuntu breaks something until it becomes almost unusable
I have no sound, serious graphics problems from crashing to images disappearing or menus not showing, conflicts with the window manager, and text input simply not working at times. also, everything gui related is bloody slow. since some people use it on ubuntu, probably it's not nearly as bad for most
 
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